Professional Pistolero Help Needed

[SixGunSancho]

Good Morning Professional Pistoleros,

It’s been a long, long time since my last revolver purchase.

I’ve been plagued by a pesky thought that’s been lingering within the rational part of my brain for quite some time, but of an unknown duration. It became more assertive until it became downright annoying. So I up and shut-it-the-heck down. I dropped about 670 simoleons on a brand new Model 66-8 with a 2.75” barrel. It’s in transit as I write this, from the Lone State State to my FFL in the Tarnished State.

I have a long rap sheet for general heresy going back to my earliest days of grammar school, but very few transgressions against God. My heretical paradox is I believe the .357 Mag cartridge is our most versatile cartridge, and I believe it’s our most overrated cartridge. My heretical opinion is there isn’t a better trail gun-cartridge combo than the .357 Mag. It’s the ultimate wilderness survival handgun.

I’m good with my choice. Besides, the general running the US Marine Corps, Camp Pendleton outfit told me that an RPG would be a poor choice for trail use. He did tell me that he could have gotten his armorer to rig a flame thrower for trail use, but I’d have to lug around gallons of high test and apply for EPA permits to deploy it against jackalopes, Chupacabras, and ancient aliens.

Here’s where I need expert help and guidance from expert and proficient postoleros. Apparently, the Model 66-8 has a lawyer’s pull; meaning its double-action pull is better than 15 pounds. G-14 Classified info is its horrific lawyer’s pull can be mitigated with installation of an aftermarket main spring. For which spring, Wilson or Woff, should I spring?

I have no clue who came up with the idea of factory grips for that gun, but he should be shoveling horse poop in Minnesota rather than ruining a perfectly good handgun with gooney grips. They gotta go. I might send them back to Smith & Wesson where they can be used as the grip designer’s proboscis protector in case he might have to shield his schnoz from brown nose promotion material. The grips are inconsistent with the function of the gun. So, professional pistoleros, which aftermarket grips should I buy that would provide for concealment and handgun control?

From ‘net research, it’s a stretch to call the front sight a sight. I’m thinking of replacing it with a fiber optic sight. While I’ve got that in my sights, I might as well replace the rear sight. Where should I aim for best aftermarket sights?

All birds need comfortable nests, and my new raptor ain’t no exception. I want an open top, leather, OWB holster that will securely nest my gun yet provide easy and fast access to it.

Any help that you professional pistoleros can provide would be greatly appreciated.

[tg4360]

Don't listen to anything anyone says to you about, "This is what you need..." or "This is what you need to change...." etc.

Get the weapon in hand and decide for yourself if the trigger has some type of deficiency for YOU.

That supposed heavy lawyer trigger may actually work perfectly for your shooting grip and trigger stroke.

Speaking of grips, again, only you can decide what works best for you and the weapon's mission. Same for holsters.

For both, material and style will be dependant on your requirements be it strictly functional high speed low drag or compromise for, "Pretty".

An example... I read often, "here" that I am committing some type of mortal sin because my M27 has rubber grips on it.

They are, I admit, very ugly compared to the weapon they are mounted on but they work for me on it's primary mission.

All that said, if you further define your requirements, I'm sure we can offer up all kinds of suggestions. Just judiciously weigh all the information.

[Daniel Howe]

I would recommend Wolf first then Wilson for springs, I like a smooth 5# trigger. While your in there use a stone on all your action parts and get them smooth.

Grips are all you buddy. I have no idea what size your hands are or what they like to hang onto. Only recourse is to try them until you find what you like.

Holsters are the same thing. Lot of people making them and they are all over priced. Stick with a well known name and leather. Keep going until you find what you like. I have 8 holsters for my every day gun and I only use 2 of them.

I like fiber optics, try these guys, I've always been happy with them
Williams Gun Sight Company | Firesights and Gunsights

[22hipower]

I won't comment on springs, sights and stocks but will offer a suggestion on a holster. I have bought several from h.c.leather on eBay for my short barreled S&Ws and have been very pleased with all of them. Great fit, look good, minimal size for secure carry and economical; $50 or less. Just look for holsters on eBay and you'll find several from h.c.leather. If what you want isn't there, ping him and I'm sure he'll have one or will build one for you. Enjoy the new revolver and welcome to the Forum.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

[ContinentalOp]

If the pull is literally greater than 15lbs, there may be something wrong with it as that seems awfully high even for a factory DA pull. It might be worth discussing it with S&W customer service.

It's also possible there may be grit inside. Some people have reported opening up the sideplate of their revolvers to find metal shavings. If you know how to properly remove the sideplate, it may be worth doing so to check it out, clean it, and maybe lube it.

For a carry gun, I'd prefer to have a gunsmith do an action job to smooth the trigger while keeping the factory springs to ensure reliability.

I can't help with the spring selection as all the revolvers I've had used factory springs, but with semi-autos, if I use something other than factory springs I go with Wolff.

Grips are a very individual, personal matter. What works for me may be absolutely horrible for you. While it's good to see what works well for others, be prepared for the possibility that you may have to try several before you find something suitable.

I'll go ahead and share what I like, but keep in mind I have smallish hands.

Personally, I think Craig Spegel's boot grips are the best for both control and concealability. However, I think his wait list is about 1 year or so, unless you can find a used set for sale somewhere.

My favorite for K-frames, though, is the PGS Hideout grip. I like the smooth, non-grooved version. It's smooth, but not slick; it won't grab onto clothing but once you apply grip pressure it's pretty secure. They're relieved for speedloaders, if that matters to you. The best part is that they cost around $20. Brownell's usually carries them.

I've also had experience with Ahrends grips. Excellent quality. They offer a boot grip which works well. The one I used was finished with tung oil, which I think is a good option to get as it's smooth, but not slippery at all.

Altamont has a lot of options. I believe I tried one of their finger-groove boot grips on a J-frame, but it didn't work for me. I wouldn't let that keep me from trying out some other options from them.

Eagle Grips Secret Service grips are a good option. They're similar in shape to the Spegel boot grips.

The only experience I have with rubber grips were Uncle Mike's, but that was over 20 years ago. I did like them. I personally don't like rubber grips but there's nothing wrong with trying them out and seeing if they work for you.

I can't help with sights as every revolver I've ever had used fixed sights.

As for holsters, there are a lot of options, from production manufacturers to custom makers. I'd suggest a good pancake holster. Most of my experience is with custom makers, and I can say from experience that Kramer Leather, Milt Sparks, TT Gunleather, and Side Guard Holsters make excellent quality gear. You just have to decide on how much you want to spend and how long you're willing to wait. If you can't find a holster offered for a 2.75" barrel with production or custom makers, just go with a holster for a 3" barrel K-frame.

Like grips, you may have to experiment to find something that works for you. We all have holster boxes filled with holsters we've tried.

Apologies for the novel. I hope it was helpful.

[gwpercle]

shoot a few... no shoot several boxes of ammo through it before you go to monkeying around with springs , grips and sights .
The Fiber Optic front sight was not the be all and end all on my revolver...I wish it had regular sights .
If you don't like the factory grips Kim Ahrend
Ahrends Grips : Home
makes them that fit a normal persons hand ... I can't palm a basketball .
His Retro Target and Retro Combats fit my hand like a glove ..
The model 58 in my avatar are Retro Combats... I Like Em !
Gary

[Hapworth]

Originally Posted by Daniel Howe

I would recommend Wolf first then Wilson for springs, I like a smooth 5# trigger. While your in there use a stone on all your action parts and get them smooth...

Politely, suggesting to someone who may or may not know their way around the innards of a S&W revolver to take a stone to all the action parts is seriously ill-advised -- it isn't even how one performs a proper revolver action job.

You may know exactly what you're doing and only wrote it shorthand, but I wouldn't assume the OP has what might be your knowledge or skill.

[CDR_Glock]

Try out the gun first. See how well you shoot it. A double action trigger is heavy for a reason. Most revolvers run 12-14 lb. I have something like 17 to 9 revolvers.

Nothing I have is as heavy as you have described.

If after you shoot it, you want to have trigger work done, use a Wilson Kit. I had one in a S&W 640 357 Magnum 5 Shot and it reduced the trigger by 1.5 lbs.

Double action triggers also tend to get smoother over time.

For grips, only you can decide on that. Wider grips tend to distribute recoil more easily. Rubber is a better choice for a vast majority of revolvers. A full grip is better than a 3 finger grip.

Hogue is my favorite for all of my revolvers. As you can see from my pic all have rubber.

Wood is pretty to look at, but recoil is going to be much more punishing.

I have just recently started using wraps for my revolvers. They make the grip wider and thicker. For me, it is more comfortable. The wraps are weatherproof. They also mitigate a small degree of recoil.

See my 500 S&W? I have rubber grips, and a wrap. I don’t wear gloves because I need the feel to control double action triggers.

The picture also illustrates my favorite way to carry in the woods. A chest holster distributes weight better. Plus the draw is faster with an economy of motion. The Gunfighters, Inc Kenai chest holster is adjustable and can be worn over a jacket.

I have used other chest holsters such as a 2A holsters brand for my S&W Performance Center 627 2.5” 8 Shot 357 Magnum. It has a 4 point harness which is great for smaller guns. The beauty of the 2A is an adjustable method of Barrel up, Barrel down or horizontal carry. I prefer horizontal carry.

Bandolier holsters are just so bulky but I have them for scoped revolvers.

I have an Alaskan Guide holster but it is vertically oriented with the barrel down which is a slow draw.

As for ammunition. That depends upon what animals are you going to encounter. You’re more likely going to encounter a mountain lion over a bear.

4-3-1 Rule For Bear: 4x caliber, 300 gr, 1000 FPS. Hence I carry an Ruger Alaskan 454 Casull with 360 gr Buffalo Bore Hard cast Lead, especially since I can shoot it faster than I can my 500 S&W, In DAO. Anything that can kill bear can kill a charging moose.

I’m only in Black Bear country but black bear can get pretty large. I have a bear family that traverses my property in the Fall. Mama is big but Baby is relatively smaller...for now.

For 357, Buffalo Bore, Underwood and HSM have good options.


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[crazyphil]

Believing that a picture is better than a thousand words, I will give you
two pictures and spare you the two thousand words. For a snub nosed
K Frame I believe the best choice is the RSS (Revolver Super Speed) by
Ken Null. You can make an outline of your shooting hand and send it
to Herrett's, and they will make your stocks (aka grips) to fit your hand
perfectly. Mine, for example are Walnut Jordan Troopers. Perfect fit.

[UncleEd]

SixGunSancho,

Wait until you get the gun and shoot it
in factory configuration.

Then decide what you think you need.

I don't see how you can judge the stocks,
sights, trigger pulls until then.

[StrawHat]

I keep factory springs in my S&W revolvers for a reason, they work. I like my DA trigger pull to be smooth. Dry firing helps smooth things so I do a lot of that.

Stocks are personal. I do not use rubber grips on my revolvers because I found they shirt and would give me two distinct groups. Not good in competition. I have come to find the best stocks for me are magnas with grip adapters. Or the target stocks I whittled down to approximate that configuration. There is little recoil with the 357 so finding something comfortable will not be a problem. Many shooters like the factory stocks.

Holsters are also personal. I prefer holsters that are patterned after the ones offered by A W Brill They are not for everyone but, they work for me.
A good belt is also required to work with the holster.

Best of luck.

Kevin

[H Richard]

It all depends on the real practical use the gun will be put to. If you are Law enforcement agent, you need reliability first. If you are a daily carrier with "reason" to be carrying you need reliability first. If you carry every once in awhile and go to the range at least monthly, you might want to have a trigger job done, (by a professional).

Most reliable revolver triggers run in the 10-14 lb range, and single action in the 2.5 to 3.5 lb range. If you try and get the trigger much below 10 lbs you risk not having a reliable gun when you need it.

[CDR_Glock]

Originally Posted by H Richard

It all depends on the real practical use the gun will be put to. If you are Law enforcement agent, you need reliability first. If you are a daily carrier with "reason" to be carrying you need reliability first. If you carry every once in awhile and go to the range at least monthly, you might want to have a trigger job done, (by a professional).

Most reliable revolver triggers run in the 10-14 lb range, and single action in the 2.5 to 3.5 lb range. If you try and get the trigger much below 10 lbs you risk not having a reliable gun when you need it.

Additionally if you mess with the return spring you can get light primer strikes which makes for no bang when you pull the trigger.




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[3rdgeargrndrr]

6gunSancho-. I dont knowwhat your experience is with shooting in general. If you shoot 0.5# benchrest rifles the trigger will feel like 100#’s.
If you shoot factory Ruger revolvers the Smith will feel like 1#.
Shoot the 66 first. Sort it all out after you have assessed everything about it.
Try to forget about everything you want in the gun before you shoot it. It will ruin your perception, jumping ahead too quickly ruins the gun and the wallet. Everytime you make a change it is a compromise. I have a 460 that I had the triggered smoothed and brought down to 1.5# break. Downright dangerous for anyone else shooting it the first time. Had to just put the factory trigger back in.

Forget about all the accessories, too, for the time being.
The only money I would drop after gun purchase is steel targets and ammo.

[mikerjf]

I'm just repeating others, but yes, get it and shoot it a while before changing anything. I prefer stock springs.

Grips and holsters you may have to try a few, but looking at pictures helps. You could Google "S&W K frame holster" and select image search, and have lots to look at.

[Hapworth]

Originally Posted by CDR_Glock

Additionally if you mess with the return spring you can get light primer strikes which makes for no bang when you pull the trigger...

Perhaps you mean mainspring? The return -- or rebound -- spring doesn't affect ignition.

[Narragansett]

Welcome to the forum?

[ken158]

Well, you have advice from how to fix a gun you haven’t even received yet... really? Which springs to install, stoning the inside action parts (?), how bad and ugly rubber grips are and which holster you need. Some advice was realistic in suggesting you shoot the gun and make decisions based on your preferences. Go slow, think through it and proceed after your decisions are clear.

[mrchuck]

I have an old,made in 1955 2" model 36. It is loaded with old military hardball ammo.
I have always believed in "double tap".
I have shot some of this same ammo and it has always gone BANG.

[ContinentalOp]

Originally Posted by ken158

Well, you have advice from how to fix a gun you haven’t even received yet... really? Which springs to install, stoning the inside action parts (?), how bad and ugly rubber grips are and which holster you need. Some advice was realistic in suggesting you shoot the gun and make decisions based on your preferences. Go slow, think through it and proceed after your decisions are clear.

Yup. I missed the part where he said he didn't have it in hand yet. If that's the case, then yeah, getting some rounds down range before making any decisions is the best route.

[ContinentalOp]

Originally Posted by CDR_Glock

Additionally if you mess with the return spring you can get light primer strikes which makes for no bang when you pull the trigger.

No, but it can affect trigger return, increasing the likelihood of short-stroking the trigger when firing DA quickly.

[SixGunSancho]

Originally Posted by ken158

Well, you have advice from how to fix a gun you haven’t even received yet... really? Which springs to install, stoning the inside action parts (?), how bad and ugly rubber grips are and which holster you need. Some advice was realistic in suggesting you shoot the gun and make decisions based on your preferences. Go slow, think through it and proceed after your decisions are clear.

I do have a whole lot of experience with revolvers.

I do not have sufficient knowledge of modern iterations of revolvers.

[SixGunSancho]

Originally Posted by Narragansett

Welcome to the forum?

Thanks.

Lots of knowledgeable pistoleros here.

[SixGunSancho]

Originally Posted by Hapworth

Politely, suggesting to someone who may or may not know their way around the innards of a S&W revolver to take a stone to all the action parts is seriously ill-advised -- it isn't even how one performs a proper revolver action job.

You may know exactly what you're doing and only wrote it shorthand, but I wouldn't assume the OP has what might be your knowledge or skill.

I have disassemble S&W revolvers, but not recent iterations of them.

All mechanical devices operate in logical progression.

[SixGunSancho]

Originally Posted by tg4360

Don't listen to anything anyone says to you about, "This is what you need..." or "This is what you need to change...." etc.

Get the weapon in hand and decide for yourself if the trigger has some type of deficiency for YOU.

That supposed heavy lawyer trigger may actually work perfectly for your shooting grip and trigger stroke.

Speaking of grips, again, only you can decide what works best for you and the weapon's mission. Same for holsters.

For both, material and style will be dependant on your requirements be it strictly functional high speed low drag or compromise for, "Pretty".

An example... I read often, "here" that I am committing some type of mortal sin because my M27 has rubber grips on it.

They are, I admit, very ugly compared to the weapon they are mounted on but they work for me on it's primary mission.

All that said, if you further define your requirements, I'm sure we can offer up all kinds of suggestions. Just judiciously weigh all the information.

We have to do what's right for us. We know conditions in which we'll carry handguns.

In So Cal, concealment is a huge issue. While it might appear counter-intuitive, there are many remote hiking trails in So Cal. So Cal has a healthy population of mountain lions. It's thick with the extremely deadly Mojave Green rattlesnake. Black bears live throughout Angeles National Forest. Lastly, due to proximity to LA, bipedal predators are always a concern.

California is the most beautiful state in the country. It's also the most totalitarian state in the country. Most people in CA hold irrational paranoia of guns. If we were walking along phenomenally beautiful trails along CA's coastline with spectacular ocean views and we were to encounter members of CA's dominant population (irrational paranoia of guns) and were my handgun to become visible to them, rest assured a deputy would respond, which would be a huge waste of his time. I'd show him my retirement credential, we'd talk shop for a few minutes, and we'd all be on our way.

If I were carrying a handgun for bipedal self-defense, it would be a semi. The .357 Mag is extremely versatile. I can quickly load shot capsules for rattlers. With the FBI load, it's a good bipedal self-defense handgun. With 180 grain .357 Mag rounds, it will kill the largest black bears.

I needed a lightweight, versatile handgun that's easy to conceal. Hence, I bought a Model 66-8 2.75". I will carry it in a Galco Combat Master.

[SixGunSancho]

Profits drive business decisions. The Model 66-8 is the product of profitability. A handgun produced with a lot of human involvement might cost more to produce than it could command in the marketplace.

I'm not a huge fan of rubber grips. Checkered wooden grips are more expensive than easily mass produced and far less expensive rubber grips. I get it why S&W fits its revolvers with rubber grips.

The Model 66-8's two-piece barrel reduced production cost. I have no direct knowledge of whether it will affect the gun's performance. My reasoned guess is it wont. It's probably more aesthetic.

Were S&W to produce copies of vintage revolves with recessed cylinders and hand fitting, it probably couldn't recover cost due to low demand. The price would cause most shooters to buy less expensive alternatives. However, it might be hasty to conclude that new iterations of S&W revolvers are inferior to vintage models. Personally, I'd prefer a vintage model. Reality caused me to go with a copy of the new version.

[mrchuck]

I worked on the Angeles NF. Marijuana plantation eradication.
I had a dedicated satellite so I could "look down and identify" the owners and workers, and send in Armed Rangers to arrest and bring out the MJ.
A very successful way!!!

[ScottN]

Congrats on the 66-8! I love mine. I made a few changes to make it even sweeter. I’m not not a gunsmith or expert pistolero but I know how I like my S&W revolvers.

I thought the rear sight was too low and the notch was a bit shallow. I went with the S&W taller .146" blade. For the front sight I went with the Dawson Precision .110" wide by .270" tall red fiber optic sight. The factory front sight is .125" wide. I had my gunsmith do the install because I didn’t feel like doing it this time. I have done it before but revolver sight installs can be a pain in my opinion but YouTube is your friend if you want to do it yourself. This combo was suggested to me by a poster on this site and is a great option.

I also changed the grips to the Hogue bantam grips and installed a Wolff 14-lb trigger return spring. It is about as perfect as a modern revolver can get...imho. It is a woods and range revolver for me. The HSM 357 180 grain bear round shoots great for me. The bantam grips fit my hand like a glove and soak up felt recoil well.

For wood/laminate grips check out Altamont Grips. They have lots of styles and don’t break the bank. You might even be able to buy two sets from them for the price of one premium set from the popular custom makers...the Altamonts won’t be as nice but they have worked well for me.

More on the trigger, I don’t ever touch the main spring...ever. I buy Wolff trigger return springs in weights from 14 - 16 lbs. I install the 14 lb spring while doing my initial clean and lube. Once reassembled I do at least 1000 dry fires with snap caps. As long as the trigger return is forceful enough then I’m done. If the trigger return feels sluggish at all then I go to the 15 lb spring. Then onto the 16 lb spring if necessary. FYI, I’ve never had to use more than the 15 lb’er. With this approach I end up with a 9.0 - 10.5 lb DA trigger pull in J, K and L frames. SA pull is usually in the 3-3.5 range.

And last, holsters were a challenge for me to find but I ended up with a couple of good options. I have a iwb kydex holster from JM Custom Kydex that works well for my 66-8 if I want to carry iwb, which I don’t do often because I feel it’s a bit too bulky for extended iwb carry. I also have the following Desantis owb holster. It was on sale for $45 and had good reviews. It works well and didn’t break the bank.

DeSantis Thumb Break Scabbard Belt Holster Right Hand - MPN: 001BA13Z0

[SixGunSancho]

Hi ScottN.

Razorbacks know college football and handguns ;-)

I do appreciate your helpful advice.

I agree with you about altering handguns absent specific need. I do intend to keep my Model 66-8 stock except for its grips. I have bough a pair of Altamont grips. All reviews of Altamont grips have been positive.

I did buy a Wilson Combat mainspring kit. I've had excellent luck with Wilson Combat and Springfield Armory parts. I do like to keep spare handgun parts on hand. However, because I bought a spring kit doesn't mean I'll install it. I even bought an internal lock plug, but I have no intention of messing with its internal lock. I bought it just in case of the very improbable event of an internal lock failure. The plug is a part that's good to have in my handgun parts drawer with the prayer I'll never have to install it.

I might buy fiber optic sights. For bipedal self-defense handguns, I'm more than good with factory sights. But my Model 66-8 2.75" handgun might become my primary wilderness survival handgun. In my opinion, the .357 Mag is our most versatile handgun cartridge. A person lost in deep wilderness areas could easily survive with only a .357 Mag. Put a 158 grain bonded bullet in the oxygenated blood pumping mechanism of our largest deer, and a lost deep wilderness sojourner would have life-sustaining food. Such a shot would require precise shot placement. Precise shot placement requires quality sights. Hence, should I use my Model 66-8 as a wilderness survival handgun, I'll probably install fiber optic sights.

180 grain .357 Mag bullets have astonishing sectional density, which translates to a reliable penetration index. A cylinder full of 180 grain .357 Mag rounds would tend to enhance a restful night's sleep in deep wilderness areas where very mean critters maraud with vampires ;-)

BTW, before I'd shoot a large animal for food, my primary quarry would be hare or grouse. Hence, a 38 Special wadcutter would be more practical, so would #4 shot capsules. The point, however, is the amazing versatility of the .357 Magnum cartridge.

Thanks again.

[SixGunSancho]

I'm heading to my FFL this am to complete paperwork on my Model 66-8.
I'll have her in my gun safe in 10 days.

[UncleEd]

Careful out there, Sancho, as you might
get lost in the woods on your way to the
FFL.