First of all, I am NOT old...just "chronologically gifted". A VietNam vet, who has over the years collected everything but money! Lots of J-frames...especially the stainless stuff from the eighties and early nineties. Here is my conundrum...I have carried an early 640 (no dash, no-lock, no clear-coat) as my CCW for several years. Been pretty proficient with Federal Match Wadcutters, but wouldn't win prizes. I recently took in a Model 317 (LNIB) as part of a trade and have been amazed at how well I shoot this little ten ounce .22...especially with CCI Stingers. How crazy is it for me to give up a .38 and switch to an 8-shot .22 for a CCW? To me, the .22 Stinger has similar ballistics to the 5.7FN sometimes used for personal protection. (Remember the terrorist Army Major psychologist that killed so many with his 5.7 ??) I know, most will tell me to stick with the 640, but I am soooo accurate with the Stingers. Regards.

Bob B

Go with what you're comfortable.

If you're happy and feel good about it, fine by me!

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Stu

Well Bob, I'm a total noob here, so before you start getting qualified replies I thought I'd throw in something lighthearted. Here's a fact that I can say about your question: 100% of all bad guys don't like being shot with a Model 317! Seriously though, I'll be following the replies to see what others have to say, but from what I've read and seen on true crime documentaries/forensics shows, the velocity of a .22 (especially something like a CCI Stinger), can have substantial if not fatal effects. If the first one didn't do a good job of persuasion, I'm sure by shots 2-4 the confrontation would certainly be over. Just my 1c worth.

If you run the stingers out of your stubby over a chrono, you'll find the achieved speed is far less than the 5.7FN out of their pistol.

After you see what the actual speed is, you may rethink it.

I haven't been comfortable with carrying just a .22 pistol even for a trip to the barn since I found it ineffective at stopping a (possibly rabid) stray dog without shooting over a dozen shots (from a high perch). The dog eventually died.

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Science plus Art

After all,it IS the caliber of choice of professional assassins.
f.t.

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South Carolina-God's country

A hit with something small is 100% more effective than a miss with something big.

Shoot what you shoot best.

I think it was Steve Martin as a mob guy in "My Blue Heaven" that opined that when you get shot with a .22 "it bounces around inside your head until you die".


Just have to put 'em in the right spot . . . .

That would be logical for a Hollywood script writer without much to slow down the bouncing.

Nobody's going to yell at you for that. Well, at least not me. Any number of hits with a .22 beats misses with a .357. It's also been said over and over that you should carry what YOU are proficient with. Oh and a .22 beats a sharp stick (AKA nothing at all) all day every day. Insert next cliché here. Confidence is almost everything (practice is the rest) so go with what you're good at / comfortable with.

The problem with your choice is that it assumes your target will be standing idly by while you sedately fire multiple .22's into it.

What if your target is 6'5" tall, weighs 260 lbs, and is moving across a room at a run, with an axe, to stove in your head?

Still wanna stay with that .22?

To each their own but there are much, much better loads, calibers, revolvers, pistols, etc. than the round/gun you are choosing if defense if your intended use. Sorry Brother, I've seen that elephant unfortunately and if I could have gotten my hands on a Stinger (the shoulder fired kind) I'd have taken that.

Just my .02.

Since you collect J frames from a time period in which they were manrfactured in .32, tradeing one of your .38s for a .32 would round out your collection. Then practice with the .32 until your proficiency with .32 recoil is as good as with .22 recoil, then step back up to .38 recoil.

The powder in Stingers was selected for best performance for their primay use in rifles.

Thanks for all the quick responses. Although I haven't been really yelled at, I am not surprised at what I am hearing. I do still shoot competitively (Glock 34) so I'm just not sure it is a recoil issue. I can easily do 6 inch rapid fire groups at twenty yards with the 640, but I do even better with the 317. I appreciate being reminded that the velocity specs. on .22 Stinger are probably from a 20" rifle barrel versus the 2" barrel on my 317. I think the superlight weight of the 317 has made me want to carry it in a pocket holster. I do also carry the 640 in a Kramer pocket and on the belt in a Galco. Regards.

Bob B.

Bob....I am not only going to NOT YELL at you....I am going to side with you. I recently came across a low-mileage no-lock 317 for a fair price and pounced on it. It was intended for the wife, but I plan to get another one for me. Why.....you can stick the thing in your shirt-pocket on a hot summer day and never know it's there, the wife loves it and I have found it to be extremely accurate for it's size and sights. With all the other weapons I had tried to get her to shoot....she would occasionally hit "near the target" with an occasional round that would actually hit the target. This gun is loaded-up with Wolff springs, trigger pull is not an issue and after only two 8-round cylinders full, she put 14 out of the 16 in the target with 3 bullseyes......simply amazing. I was also very surprised at how the CCI shot-shell pattered through this gun. Had this paper-target been a BG, he would be blind.

Yes....I have all the big caliber weapons and if I am pretty sure I am going up against somebody wearing body armor and such, I would have one of my magnums and will always have one handy in the vehicle, but I think after three shots of CCI shot-shells in the face....I could take my time and decide just where I wanted to place the remaining 5-shots of LR into the BG while he stumbles around with his eyes shot-out.....maybe number 8 would be in the ear and end it all to prevent any lawsuits.

I think the 317 is a fine little piece and I am looking for another one for ME right now.

If you are proficient with the Glock platform, how about a mini-Glock? It's light (but not quite 317 light) and has a lot more power. I think relying on a .22 when you can handle and compete with a 9 mm would be unwise; you never know what threat is around the corner. Good luck in your decision.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

My guess is no matter what handgun you have when the shooting starts, you're going to feel undergunned. Go with the biggest caliber, highest capacity gun you can shoot well (and will actually carry) and call it a good day.

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Centennial Every Day

Elght rounds of stingers seems to me to be the equivalent to a load of buckshot. I've shot a lot of dogs and a few hogs with 22's. Only one dropped dead. All of them ran. However I did have a few ricochet of skulls. I reccomend that you point the gun at the critters guts and keep pulling the trigger untill you feel it has been properly shot. If all you can see is the head, a few stingers in the face will probably be as effective as spray.

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olafhardt

...yell at you.

However, a .22 rimfire handgun (magnum or LR), just doesn't have enough punch, no matter the barrel length.

Even a 9mm from a short barrel is marginal. Your assailant would already have the edge, being the aggressor. And any confrontation inside seven yards gives the assailant the edge unless your gun is already drawn and ready. Someone on drugs may well not even feel a .22 and his/her knife, if so armed, is much deadlier than a Model 317.

Therefore, you must give yourself every advantage possible. I wouldn't stake my life on a .22 unless (and maybe not then) the only other thing available is a club.

There's a maxim out there that says "any caliber for defense as long as it starts with the number 'four'.". You have to take the will out of the aggressor to continue the fight.

Since you are proficient (your word) with the 9mm, don't regress to a .22. A defensive encounter only last two, maybe three rounds, and you wouldn't even notice the recoil.

Thanks MurphyDog, I do have carry platforms for my Glock 19's. I bought four of the "all Austrian" G19's in early 2009. I have one of them loaded with Gold Dot's in a car-safe that is readily accessible and another in a bedroom nightstand. I find that my real/truly/often carry gun is never the G19...even though I have IWB and *** Galco holsters for that pistol. It has just been more comfortable for me to carry the J-frame S&W. I loooove the light weight of this new 317, but do recognize the limitations of the caliber.

If you want to carry a .22, go ahead. You should have something you are comfortable with or you won't be happy. However, 5.7 x 28 is a completely different round from the .22, and not a good comparison. The 5.7 is faster, and more accurate at longer distances. Use the .22, but don't think it is like the 5.7 because it isn't.

I think you're crazy to carry a .22, but that's just me.

Saw some little guy on one of those worlds scariest police video shows get shot point blank with a cops .45 in the stomach and he just kept goin'. Fighting an assailant high on meth or crack, and with todays people much bigger and fatter than ever before, a little .22 seems a poor choice.

I ran across a set of statistics some time ago, but I forgot the website it was on...anyway for the past hump-teen years the majority of gun-deaths were caused by the 22 caliber, except for one year when the 25 ACP beat it out. I wonder what all these people are dying from....lead poisoning? I am sure we know where most of these deaths are occurring and they are not out here in rural America.

However...being out here in rural America and also being raised on a farm where we butchered our own animals, I have seen many 250-pound hogs drop over dead as a door-knocker after being shot right between the eyes with a 22-short. No...the hog was not charging, or pulling a weapon, or acting aggressive in any manner whatsoever and the shot could be placed in the correct spot. I admit that would be hard to do and would take an excellent marksman to be able and place the first shot right between the eyes. I have some cop buddies with clean kills on their record who have. Not with a 22 but a 9MM, but the point is....one 22 in the right place will do the job. I am not up on my anatomy and a hogs skull may not be as thick as a humans....all I know is time, after time, after time, they will fall over dead right then and there.I have also seen whitetail deer killed with buckshot and after dressing....find only one pellet in the right place.

My normal carry piece is a lightweight 38-Special and I am not advocating that everybody ought to carry a 22. I am just saying that a 22 will do the job if you know how to shoot it. I keep hearing and seeing this stuff about hyped-up bad guys that run around full of 38 or 45 slugs in their guts and I know it's true. If he is doped-up enough he will likely not know he has been shot with anything.

Contrary to the cowboy movies, a shooting victim does not get knocked off his feet and thrown through a wall, or 5 feet up into the air no matter what you shoot him with...except for a howitzer. A doped up BG that is out of his mind is not going to be knocked off his feet and be flipped through the air with a 357 Magnum a bit quicker than he will a 22. But, he will likely bleed-out quicker.

Twenty two wouldn't be my first choice but I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of multiple shots fired from one either. I would feel much more comfortable with the 317 snubbie than with no gun at all.

Here are some chron results that might be of interest:

2” Lady Smith Airlite 317-2 Chron Results – Temp 70 – 3 Paces from Muzzle (Approx 9’):

WW High Speed Hollow Point (100 Rnd Plastic Pack) 1,005 fps
WW High Speed Hollow Point (100 Rnd Plastic Pack) 941 fps
WW High Speed Hollow Point (100 Rnd Plastic Pack) 997 fps
WW High Speed Hollow Point (100 Rnd Plastic Pack) 973 fps
WW High Speed Hollow Point (100 Rnd Plastic Pack) 982 fps

CCI Mini Mag Hollow Points (100 Rnd Plastic Pack) 893 fps
CCI Mini Mag Hollow Points (100 Rnd Plastic Pack) 908 fps
CCI Mini Mag Hollow Points (100 Rnd Plastic Pack) 862 fps
CCI Mini Mag Hollow Points (100 Rnd Plastic Pack) 871 fps
CCI Mini Mag Hollow Points (100 Rnd Plastic Pack) 888 fps

CCI Stinger Hollow Points (50 Rnd Plastic Pack) 1,120 fps
CCI Stinger Hollow Points (50 Rnd Plastic Pack) 1,091 fps
CCI Stinger Hollow Points (50 Rnd Plastic Pack) 1,079 fps
CCI Stinger Hollow Points (50 Rnd Plastic Pack) 1,094 fps
CCI Stinger Hollow Points (50 Rnd Plastic Pack) 1,069 fps

Paul

Paul, Thanks for posting the chrono results for "Stingers" out of a 2" barrel. I really do handle the 640 with decent accuracy (6" groups at 20 yards), but just became so enamored with the 10+ ounce weight of the 317 as a possible CCW. Your results certainly do reflect that the .22 Stinger is not like the 5.7FN ammo. I must also confess that in the continuing cold, ****** on-going winter weather here in NW Ohio, I will infrequently carry a G19 in a Galco Miami Classic under one of my "Mr. Rogers" sweaters (any of you old enough to remember him?) or a lightweight jacket. The Glocks all seem too cumbersome for me to carry on the hip. Thanks to all for the feedback.

I, too, am "chronologically gifted". I'm guessing that you fell in love with the 317 after about 10 minutes; I know I did.
JMHO, but, just so that when you venture out into the world,
you're ready with Something. You may want to re-think if you suspect
you're going in harm's way.
A lot of real-life educated people have posted on this, so why not
post again after you decide? TACC1

Nobody here actually thinks that.

22 as self defense/ccw has come up here many times...it's a poor choice...for any number of reasons...it simply lacks horsepower...fun to plink,train,target,small game...self defense?nooooooo

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SWCA#2208
KK4EMO

You know you ought to look at something like a 340sc. Mine weighs just a bit more than 14ozs loaded and it can be shot from a pocket if necessary. I have a 317 too and while lighter I really can't tell the difference between the two of them when in a back pocket. I do sometimes carry the 317 around my property but the likelyhood of needing to use it while here is just about zero. I have read too many stories about 22's not being able to penetrate a human skull and just sort of going around under the scalp.

I will add another slant to this. Where do you live, and what is the threat level??

I am an old retired guy who lives in a rural area. Low threat level.

I have multiple carry guns. My 638 normally has real carry ammo in it. I normally only carry it when I am dressed up, and going somewhere.

My most carried handgun at the moment would be my 64 HB 4". I put it on almost every day. My Summer ammo payload. Rounds 1 and 2 Speer Shot Shells. Rounds 3 thru 6 are 125 grain lead SWC's running about 800 fps. I normally have a couple speed strips with me. One full of extra shot shells, and the other with more 125 grain lead bullets.

I carry my 1911 Colt some also. No telling if I will have 230 round nose lead reloads or Hi Performance Hollow Points in it.

I strap on my 4" 617 part of the time. Especially if I might have a plinking session down at the creek.

I probably shoot my carry guns more than most. In the last 10 days I have killed 2 Cotton Mouth's and a Copperhead with my 64 Smith.

I had a one sided gun battle with some armodillow's a while back. I ended up getting a couple of them, and had 2 get away. I had pulled the Marble Fiber Optic front sight off my 7-1/2" 480 Ruger Super Redhawk, and put it on my 9-1/2" one. I put the red ramp back on it. I had not checked the open sights, figuring Midway would get another sight back in stock pretty quick. The gun was shooting high, or I would have gotten all 4 of them. After being out of stock for 6 months, I now have another Marble Fiber Optic sight on it.

My local dealer has a 351PD in stock. I have been looking it over when I am in the shop. The price is a little salty for what it is.

I work, and shoot in our Defensive Pistol Match every month, and I have for years. We have a Rimfire Division. I see way more accurate shooting with rimfire handguns than I do centerfire. We have lots of rimfire double tapps that a single paster will cover both holes. In the last match we had a low turnout due to a threat of rain that held off till we were done shooting. I had time to do some serious shooting for a change. I shot the match with my 64 using Comp III speed loaders, my 610 using full moon clips, my 638 in BUG using Comp I speed loaders, and my 617 using HKS speed loaders. My best score of the day was with my 617 in 6 shot configuration. A 617 is very hard to speed load quickly. That means I made up for the time with the score on the targets. There is alot to be said for being able to make accurate hits on the target quickly.

Bob

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ICORE MO2908

The odds of you ever needing to draw your carry gun are very, very small. The odds that you'll actually need to fire it are smaller still. The odds that the guy you'll need to fire at will be an doped-up NFL linebacker with an axe are infinitesimal.

*ALL* handguns suitable for everyday carry are, to be generous, sub-optimal. If we really wanted to ensure we had enough gun for whatever we might encounter we'd all be carrying rifles.

The trick is to find the gun that you think best balances convenience and need--for you. I'm comfortable carrying a .38 J-frame, but by all means carry whatever best suits you.

I think Lee Child's character, "Jack Reacher" may have been the only case, even in fiction, of someone calculating the balistics of the ammo comming out of the gun that he would be shot with if he went after the individual weilding it, in that case, a .38 SPL, before jumping the guy. I don't remember the book... The CIA and The Mafia can't both be wrong at the same time, can they? (Oh Yeah). I read a statistic a number of years ago (quite a number) that stated that most deaths by hand guns were by .22 rim fires, at something like 11 feet, so if you are going to rely strictly on numbers, then EVERYBODY should start packing them little bad boys. Even without the endorsement of the CIA and The Mafia, the numbers are there for 22 carry, maybe. I know I won't be stepping up to vollunteer to see how effective the humble little 22 is, or water boarding either, even though it's not torture. By the way, what would water boarding be then, if it's not torture? But I'm getting further off the subject. Brother, you have been where the fast bullets fly, and you probably had a .22 there, which-in my view was junk, and put quite a few names on that black wall over by the Lincoln Memorial. Confidence goes a long way, and don't forget that south american stuff, Agilla (sp) that mozies out of .22 LR barrel at 1700+, whew! But there we go with those numbers again. Flapjack.

My 2 cents worth. First my thanks for your service in Vietnam. OK, so here goes my idea. Any gun in hand/accessible when needed is better then the one left at home. I always recommend that one carry the gun their most proficient with. As pointed out there are many variables as to what one carries. In winter I carry either a .44 special or a . 45 due to the fact they will penetrate many layer's of clothing or hide. Also easier to conceal in cold weather environment. In summer I'm "forced" to scale back to 9mm's or even .380's that I know I can drive into the eye socket if needed while I'm in the "city". What is your perceived threat level at any given time? If you can keep your rounds in the diameter of a dine at 7 feet and a quarter at 15 feet then the .22 will work if and when needed for you. We all need to be aware and re-evaluate our threat level as we age. To the scum we are easy targets if we require a cane or walker to make our way in everyday functioning. Just my thoughts, Kyle

SHOOT WHAT YOUR COMFORTABLE WITH!

There, you got yelled at, feel better?

Here's the answer.

Build a flamethrower. Nobody ever argues about how big the nozzle is.

Two more cents...

Is a 22 LR better than nothing? Yes. Is it better than most any other caliber? No.

The 22 LR has killed a lot of people over the years. Don't confuse stopping an assailant with killing him though. It won't do you any good to stop the bad guys's attack ten minutes after you expire.

It is also true that handguns in general are underpowered... but why choose the least of the underpowered? If size and weight are the big factor, the Ruger LCR makes a nice little pocket gun. It will handle 38 SPC +P and weighs only 13 ounces unloaded. The Hogue grips also keep recoil very manageable. Just a thought... do what you feel best about.

Or go with the flamethrower idea!

I am reminded that the late Bill Jordan thought that a 22mag. Snub made a great concealed carry gun. I can also say that my most recent buy is a 351C in 22 mag. It is extremely accurate and while I have yet to carry it seriously, I "kinda" am working towards that in my mind. The last time I carried a 22 in a serious situation was in the very late 60's when I dropped a snub kit gun and a box of hi-speed hps. in the pocket of my squad jacket to have in case I ran out of 357's during a couple of riot type situations. We worried about being pinned down and my partner and I were both going to at least keep shooting something. Man, that's a long time ago. That being said, if I knew there was going to be a gunfight my first preference would be to stay home and if that wasn't an option then going with a squad of "uncle sam's misguided children" would be my next most favorite thought. However since I can't carry concealed a stubby 308 M14, I am considering my new 351C. We shall see if I can really give up my favorite 642.

And even if you don't hit them with the .22 mag, there's a good chance they will have a heart attack from the blast. Man those things are loud!

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Centennial Every Day

Hi:
Why not CCW both your Model 640 and Model 317?
Jimmy

I sure can't add anything of substance to the discussion, only my opinion and what I've been advised to do for CC protection. One of my "mentors" wisely told me, #1 - if you have to draw your gun, it will be the worst day of your life. #2 - if you you have to draw your gun, you will wish you had something bigger.

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Ed

I have killed quite a few deer with a .22 when I was a kid. We pretty much lived off the land and my mom kinda depended on my sister and I to harvest game for the family. I shot a good sized buck one time at around 50 yards. The .22 long rifle round went in behind the ear and exited between his eyes as did his brains. I think the .22 lr is one of the best rounds ever invented. It is all in placement, which is made easy with the accuracy of a .22. I like the mini mags better that the stingers, but that's just me.
Peace,
gordon

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better have that checked

Now, this is purely an anecdote:

Forty years ago, I was shot with a .22 LR. If I remember right, it was a standard, Peters, green-box, plinking load. You know the kind==By 'em by the brick and keep a couple around. Stray boxes in every backpack, vehicle, desk drawer around the house.

Lower leg/foot. Several bones shattered. Walked into the ER by myself. However, the Navy medic on duty took one look and commented".22, huh? They do more damage than .38s"==seems that soft lead bullet is the issue.

Now, I'm not advocating carrying a .22 but several periods when I was in college, the only gun I had was a .22 (I was 18 during the Watts Riots in LA and had a Single Six by my bed for a week). I now carry a .38 at the least and usually a .45 acp.

I've hunted enough and shot enough to know placement is king. Carry what you hit with and the MOST you feel confidant hitting with!

Gordon...I too have seen many deer killed plum-dead with a 22 LR, as well as all those big hogs I discussed earlier. When I was a kid growing up on the farm...the 22 was considered by my dad to be the high-powered gun that us boys could ever carry-n-shoot until we were trained on it's use. We had an alligator decide to move into our pond. My brother was 15 before I was and he had shot the gator numerous times with the single-barrel .410 (which daddy would let us squirrel hunt with), but never made it do anything but go back under the water. He finally convinced dad that he was old enough to handle the 22 single-shot. He became a crack-shot with that little 22 and he took off gator-hunting one day. I was in the yard and heard him shoot....and then yell at the top of his voice for help. I ran down to the pond to see the 7-foot gator lying there in the waters-edge with a bullet-hole right between the eyes....dead as a hammer. Like you said....its all in placement.

I remember an ER doctor telling me he finds more internal damage from 22 shooting victims than the larger calibers. That little round bounces everywhere. This can be debated forever. Each one of us has to make a personal decision, based on current facts, shooting experience, and maybe a simple gut feeling. I suppose we could all say that little 22 beats nothing. Then again, many feel comfortable carrying nothing. It all comes down to you, and you alone. That's my 2 cents worth and I'm sticking to it.

No offense intended, no, really, but...

what do antedotal stories of deer head shots, hog head drops, alligators between the eyes, or what grandpa used to say have to do with the potential of having another adult (maybe) male and/or males, high on narcotics or even adrenaline (THE most powerful drug), doing their best to kill YOU? If you've ever had this happen to you, or frankly ever seriously considered it, I think you'll get what I'm driving at.

You truly can convince yourself of anything I guess but there is a reason that no police department, military, security service et al uses the .22 anything in anything other than a deep cover or total last ditch tool.

Better than nothing? Sure is and I wouldn't want to get shot with one but betting the life of myself and/or my family on just that choice? Uh....no.

Happy Blasting to all.

If you'd move away from New Orleans I bet you wouldn't have to worry so much about those hopped up crazy crackheads.

Where do you live? Rockwell Painting County? Is it on this planet?

Okay, how about BB guns? Yeah...that's the ticket, BB or pellet guns. After all, I wouldn't want to be shot with one right? And I remember back when I was in short pants, Grandpa told me about hitting a bird in the head, flying, with a pellet gun. By Gosh, it fell right out of the sky. Must be lethal then. And I remember hitting a rabid cat in the eye socket... And don't forget the time....

Gents, life or death is just that. No guarantees for any of us. But is seems to me that the decision to arm yourself at least realizes that God did not create us all as physical equals, that sometimes humans travel in packs for nefarious purposes, and that if confronted by such evil, you may have to defend your life. That occurs in New Orleans or Palookaville, USA. Daily.

Why not pick a butter knife if you think that is the best tool available. I disagree and the OP's posts indicate that there are much better choices for this task even in his own home. Would a very lightweight .22 be perhaps the most comfortable? Probably so. But that's not my criteria for that tool selection.

YMMV, and almost certainly will. Have a nice day.

And say hello to Goober, Barney, and Sheriff Andy if you see them.

I keep hearing about these crazed crack-heads getting shot with 45's and various magnum loads...still running around and I fully believe that happens. Based on that, if you have this crazed, doped-up maniac running at you...nothing you shoot him with is going to knock him over short of a 2 x 4, or a cannon anyway, unless you are good enough, or lucky enough to take his head off with the first shot.

I am pretty sure that most bad guys, or punks that see the barrel of whatever you have pointed at them are not going to consider the caliber. He/she is going to know that they will be hurt at the very least.

OMG! I guess I really started off on the .22 debate again. I do apologize to all forum members for that. I think that "JimmyJ" has the answer to my dilemma: carry the 317 as a back-up only (for me it will be pocket or ankle) and carry the 640 on the hip or sometimes the G19...cold weather only in a Galco Miami Classic. I do not reside in a "high risk" area, but I still do very frequent visits to my 92 year-old mother...lives in the same house since 1940...neighborhood has turned to absolute ****...had gang graffiti spray painted on her garage doors Easter Sunday...drug deals at the house across the alley...and pit bulls in several residence yards before I can get to the nearby park to walk. Thanks for all the great advice...I have listened! This is a super forum. Regards.

Bob B.

Bob....this old debate has been around since we all have. It's about as bad as Harley owners arguing over what brand of oil that simply must be used, or the motorcycle will fall apart. It's always lots of fun.

I can go out and stand on my front porch and draw a mental full-circle of houses around me that have been hit by house-burglars over the past 18-months. They just keep coming, getting arrested (sometimes) and as soon as they get out of jail they come back.....EXCEPT to my place. Every time I go out into the yard I always have a gun in full view so anybody can see it. I make a point of just going out in the yard and woods around my house and shoot stuff for fun. I wave at my mail-man with a pistol in my hand and anybody else passing by. I have a scabbard on my tractor with an 870 short-barrel shotgun in it that anybody can see.. I wear my shoulder holster when I mow the lawn.

Just making it public knowledge that you "carry" in itself can be a deterrent to these punks you are talking about. If you don't have one already....get legal with a permit and make it well-known that you most likely have a weapon on you when people see you. Let them believe that you are just crazy enough to shoot somebody. All I have had to do, so far, is stick the barrel of my 686 in the face of one of these pieces of trash that reached for my truck door handle one night. I have not had any uninvited guest since.

They don't usually carry guns. Simple house burglary (as it has become now days) is not serious enough to keep them in jail. If they have a gun...then it becomes armed robbery and they try and avoid that charge.


PS: If you ever want to sell that 317 let me know. I am looking for another one.

A 53year old Women shot and killed a Rapist with a .22 after struggle with him naked, he caught her off guard in the shower and as she fought him off she told him she had $ in the bedroom and the $ was a .22LR she emptied it into him. He collapsed in the front yard and died of his wounds!!

It's a wonder she was not sued by the ACLU, or some money-hungry relative. Maybe he trailed enough blood through the house to substantiate her allegation. That's the only thing about shooting this trash, they almost have to complete the crime before you can defend yourself and feel legal doing it.