The Goldilocks ammo

[olympicmotors]

I think I have found the "just right" load I have been searching for in my 640 pro.

Since I wanted a 357 j frame and chose the all steel 640 ( wisely in retrospect ) to tame the magnum loads somewhat, I have tried several 38 / 38 + p / 357 loads.

I want all the power I can reasonably control in my carry gun , especially since I only have 5 rounds , so I really wanted to find a 357 load I felt comfortable with. I tried Gold Dot 125 grain ( very stout recoil, and prints a couple inches low ) / Remington 158 grain ( a little milder recoil and prints right on the money ) / and finally Remington HTP 180 grain ( mildest recoil of the 3 and most accurate ).

I believe the Remington HTP 180 grain is going to find a home in my cylinder full time now. I was able to print one ragged hole at 7 yards right on top of the bulls eye today at the range.

I know it is a little heavy and may not have the velocity of the lighter loads but it is so much more managable recoil wise I am going to live with it.

Everything in a concealed carry gun and load is a compromise but for now I am going to stop searching and just go practice shooting.

I think it is interesting that the lighter the grain, the lower it prints on the paper. Anyone know why this is?

[da gimp]

although I can't answer your question. I've noted it myself a time or two...... One thing on picking the Rem loads over the Speer Gold Dots.... I know nothing about how well the Rem bullets perform..... but I know an old time Border patrol agent, who unconditionally recommends the Gold Dot loads in .38 spec, .357mag & 9mm para, based on how well they worked in real gun fights........According to him..... with good bullet placement ,they've had nothing but excellent results with them.

I suspect that the .45ACP & .40S&W will work just as well....but I cannot remember him talking about how they performed in the real world.

the FBI guys all seem to love the Hornady CDX loads too............ I wish I could buy just the bullets so I could economically reload them....

I do want to congratulate you on picking ammo you shoot both very accurately & very adeptly in your tests.. that is using some very good common sense............If you do reload though, or if a very trusted friend does,.......... you can tailor your carry/duty ammo to suit your needs and it does make practicing way cheaper.........both are reasons that caused a lot of us to start reloading way back when.....

[kthom]

My explanation for the discrepancy in POI for the lighter weight bullets compared to the heavier ones ... the lighter bullets exit the barrel a teensy bit more quickly than do the heavier ones. It has to do with bullet velocity. The handgun has not had as much time to recoil and thus the bullet impact is a bit lower on the target with the same POA as with the heavier loads. Most .38 Spec/.357 revolvers leave the factory sighted with the 158 grain bullets so it's a common event for the lighter 125's to have a lower POI on the target. That's been my experience, FWIW.

I personally like the heavier bullets myself, but I am in agreement that the Speer Gold Dots with 135 grain HPs and designed for short barrels is a very good choice for any snubby. I also like the 158 grain lead SWCHP loads as well. Speer used to sell (may still) a 160 grain semi wadcutter bullet that had a half jacket. The lead was soft, and when reloading, you crimped just in front of the half jacket. The cartridge looked like an all lead semi wadcutter. That bullet performed extremely well in penetration tests and also gave good expansion in my tests in both various mediums and in hunting situations. They sounded like a softball hitting a jackrabbit and literally destroyed the carcass. The time came when it was not recommended or approved to carry personal reloaded ammunition for duty carry so I didn't, but I was convinced those loads would have been very effective. They were loaded to give about 1000 fps from a 4" barrel Model 19. I liked the bullet weight, bullet performance, and because they were jacketed, they produced no barrel leading.

Buffalo Bore makes a standard pressure low flash 150 grain full wadcutter load for short barrels that I personally believe would be a very effective self defense load. They used harder lead which is claimed to prevent leading. I've seen no sign of that in the rounds I have test fired. They are loaded to about 850 fps from a short barrel and are said to be safe for older revolvers not +P rated. You might want to take a look at that ammunition. That full wadcutter would surely deliver a serious smack. At this point, I have not tested them for penetration, but it's my feeling that it will be more than adequate to get the job done.

[olympicmotors]

thanks kthom, that explanation of how lighter bullets print low is completely logical.

[kthom]

You are welcome, Sir! Let me hasten to say that the information did not originate with me. I've been reading about this sort of thing for many years, as well as shooting .38 Spec/.357 S&W revolvers. I wish I could give credit to those who presented the information along the way, but I have no idea at this point. But as you have found, it doesn't take much shooting of heavier versus lighter bullets to see that the lighter ones don't strike the target in the same place as the heavier ones.

I appreciate your information concerning the Remington 180 grain ammo. That's of interest to me. I'm going to try to locate some of that and give it a try. As long as it has sufficient velocity, that bullet's momentum should result in pretty serious terminal effect!! I am very interested.

[olympicmotors]

One other thing possibly of interest. I have noticed a small amount of "bullet pull" when shooting 4 rounds and checking the 5th for overall length with the 125 grain. Smith and Wesson even warned in the owners manual to not shoot any ammo under 125 grains. I have not noticed any of those problems with the heavier grains, although I suspect it has more to do with how much trouble the manufacturer goes to on the crimp than anything else.

[3rdgeargrndrr]

Glad you found a load you can shoot well. Just make sure you test it further And see if it still fulfills its purposes. You noted some lower velocity. Shoot some gel, jugs of water or wet newspaper. Make sure there is enough velocity to expand your bullets.hardly scientific but better than not knowing at all. I have had problems of heavy bullets expanding out of short barrels in most brands except for the federal hst.
Hornady critical defense uses lighter bullets and fast powder for consistent expansion imo

[kaaskop49]

Originally Posted by olympicmotors

One other thing possibly of interest. I have noticed a small amount of "bullet pull" when shooting 4 rounds and checking the 5th for overall length with the 125 grain. Smith and Wesson even warned in the owners manual to not shoot any ammo under 125 grains. I have not noticed any of those problems with the heavier grains, although I suspect it has more to do with how much trouble the manufacturer goes to on the crimp than anything else.

Thanks for the heads-up. "Bullet pull" happens most often in the Airlite Scandium frame guns, both .38 and .357. Interesting that it occurred in a steel-frame J. I like to use CCI Blazer 158gr .357 in my small and medium frame Mags and have not seen bullet pull in a 60 or Ruger SP101.It's lighter than other 158gr mags, 990fps in 3".

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

[gto364ci]

You may want to look at some Remington Golden Saber in 357, it's milder than most loadings out there.