Can anyone point me to a S&W (or other if none) 44 special in a small frame? Not the medium but a true small frame. Thanks much.

Don't think it can be done - not enough room for the cylinder holes. Even a five-shot cylinder would be too large for a j-frame.

Remember the "Charter Arms" .44 Spl. 'Undercover' BULLDOG
was made in the past.
A bear for recoil..was used for murders in the infamous 'Son of Sam' case in NYC

About 20-25 years ago some Ruger Speed Sixes were custom converted to 5-shot .44 Specials for a fairly stiff price. Seems they were called Asps; I don't think many were made.

And at that they were basically a medium frame gun, but quite compact for what they were. There is a limit to how many big holes you can drill in a cylinder.

Never heard of those Speed Six's in 44sp, but I'd sure like to run across one sometime. I really like my 696, but I agree that something just a little smaller would be very nice.

I don't necessarily want to see a 44 spl J-frame, but I'd like to meet the person who could shoot it well.

Rossi used to make a fairly small 5-shot .44

The outside barrel diameter (at the threaded shank) of a Smith in J or K frame isn't really large enough. I would LOVE to see a 4-shot j frame sized revolver on the lines of the antique Colt Cloverleaf, though!

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Chris
SWCA #2243 SWHF #292

Small? Ya want small?

Try a Bond Arms Texas Defender in .44 Special:

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

I have a Model 296 with case that I could be talked out of if anyone is interested.

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Doc Garrett
Dead Man's Doctor

Here is an ASP Ruger 44Special 5 shot revolver conversion (shown with a DEVEL full house conversion Model 59). ASP made less than a hundered 44 special revolver conversions. Most were short barrel/fixed sight guns. The one I own is called a Police Swat Special with a 4" barrel and adjustable night sights. I have never seen another one like it.

I think that there was another custom gunsmith that made 5 shot S&W K frame .44 Special conversions, name was Spokandguns or something. I've never seen one but have seen published photos way back when.

I my memory is correct Taurus made some 5 shot 44 spe.

Other than the adjustable sight models they made some pretty handy 2" fixed sight models.

I believe there was a steel version (27/28 Oz), an ultra lite version (22/23 oz) and a total titanium version (18/19 oz).

There's 4 or 5 on gunbroker know. Search for m445 under revolvers.

As for frame size I'm not sure but I think they are right in between a K and L frame smith.(?)

Not as quality as a Smith but ok for occasional use and personal defense.

Dave

The 396-1 isn't a J frame, but it weighs only about 17 oz so it's a breeze to carry, if not conceal. Bites a bit with hot loads, and bullets under 200g are not recommended. It's one of my favorite carry pieces. I often take it to the range with light Trail Boss loads or shoot .44 Russians out of it.

I carry a first generation Charter Bulldog .44 with 3” bbl. Its size is approximately 7 3/4” by 4”. The width across the cylinder is 1.45”. (The width across the cylinder of a J frame Chiefs Special in 1.30”.) This particular gun empty weighs 18oz. It’s light and not at all uncomfortable to carry. I find the recoil with 200gr. Gold Dots is less than my 2 1/2” bbl. 19-5 with .357mag. loads.

Thanks everybody. Never saw the ASP before (nice gun!). Yeah there was another thread that said the 44 Special came in small frames but I have not seen a small frame that would handle a larger cylinder. Thanks to all for the answers--

Smallest S&W from the factory is the L frame guns- 296/396/696.
Taurus and Rossi have both made medium frame .44s.
The only truely small frame revolver in .44 is the Charter Arms.

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Formerly know as Lucky Derby

The smallest I've shot is the Taurus 441 (?) the fixed-sighted version. As mentioned, it's a bit snappy with full-house loads. The Rossi 720 was offered with a three-inch lugged barrel, and basically equates to a K-frame S&W. It is noticeably smaller and lighter than a S&W 696.

4" M-64, 3" M-65, 3" Rossi 720

Taurus just resumed making their 2" 5-shot Model 445 again. I think Taurus calls the frame size "Compact," but it is definitely larger than a J-frame; maybe the same as a K-frame, but definitely smaller than the L-frame. What I have recently seen on the auction sites is a lightweight version (about 22 oz., as noted above). The new lightweight 445s I have seen do not appear to have barrel ports, unlike the older lightweight versions (I am glad they are missing). I believe that the Crimson Trace laser grips for the Taurus Judge also fit this gun, having the same grip size.

I have an acquaintence with a 3" Mod 10 K frame conversion to 44 Spl. It's a very handy size gun and and he uses only traditional factory loadings in the 750 fps range.

The issue with barrel diameter at the threaded end is a non-issue. The threaded diameter for K frame barrels and L frame 44 specials is the same. But on a K frame the bottom edge is flattened for crane closure, the cause of barrel cracking and eventual demise of the .357 Mag Mod 19.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

You know, the Charter Arms .44 spl's are still in production. You wont find a smaller 44spl.

Larry

Your wish is my command! Here's my .44 ASP. I wrote up the first article on the design back in 1982 (see cover of mag below). Kevin Parsons of ASP made me up one of the revolvers as a thank you. Lovely gun.

Rich

Thanks Rich. Great lookin piece you've got there. I'll have to try and track down that article.

There's a practically new one in the classified section for $325.

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Don't kiss smiling dogs!

I've had this Charter Bulldog .44 for some time (+30 years??). I've put lots of rounds through it as it was used to develop a .44 Special load. She's still tight. Not as pretty (or well made) as a S&W, but not a bad gun either. She does kick!

Keep in mind that Charter Arms quality control has had its ups and downs (not that S&W hasn't).

Rich

I own a .44 Charter Arms and use it as my car gun (not too terribly expensive to replace when it is inevitably stolen) and find it to be one of my best shooters. I really hesitated at first because of the rep of Charter Arms way back when, but rumor had it they had improved and I took a chance. Was not disappointed; shoots great, surprisingly accurate and not much bigger than a J frame.

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eschew obfuscation!

I traded away one of the two S&W 442s w/IL that I picked up at a gun show for $250.00 and $225.00 respectively. Since I already have several J Frames, I traded one for a brand new Bulldog (which are selling for almost $400.00 in South Florida). As said by others, not near the quality of a S&W, but it is still a nice little gun. Still wondering if I made a wise choice.

Stu

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NRA Benefactor/Cert Instructor

Rich, where did you get those grips on your bulldog? I like those.

I knew someone was gonna ask that question. I bought them not too long ago but will have to dig through my "stuff" to find out where. Give me a little time.

Rich

Edited:

Sorry, not sure about the grips. I "think" they may be standard size grips that will fit even the .38 Special Charters, but I'm just not sure.

Rich

Buds has them for $335.00 a copy.

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Ed45

Am I loseing it? Did not s&w make a small run once of a 5 shot .44 special on the K frame? Thought I seen one in the gunshop in lancaster california in a snub! But since no guru here has said so, I must be wrong!?!?

fm,

I'm not sure about the K-frame. The 296/396/696 guns were 5-shots built on the L-frame.

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Where's my dad's America?

The speed loaders I use on my 696 and 396 are all marked as "CA44". Guess what th e CA stands for? We can also assume the cylinder spacing is the same on the L frames and the Bulldog. I haven't seen or handled at Charter Arms in decades, but I don't think they're much smaller than the 696.

It might be possible to cobble together a K frame 44, but the cylinder at best would need to be a 4 shooter. Sometime take a J frame cylinder and see how big the rims on a 44 would fit. Not good.

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Dick Burg

Unfortunately, nobody can because it doesn't exist.

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Centennial Every Day

I concur. However, custom 44 Spl 5 shot chamberings can be and have been accomplished on K frame Smiths. Yes, it's 'tight' to get 5 .44s in the cylinder but not impossible. And the 5 chambers instead of six places the cylinder notches between the chambers eliminating the most obvious weak point. However, nothing but original factory or reloaded 44 Spl (750 fps) loadings are allowed!

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I believe you saw a 296. It's an L frame and the only snubby made by Smith in 44. This is mine with a stainless steel cylinder replacement from a 696 for the original Ti cylinder. I wanted a little more strength margin and something better looking. The extra couple of ounces only helped the recoil. Thumpiece replaced as well.


It may be an L frame but a very light carry gun.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I owned one of the first two Charter Bulldogs (3" tapered barrel) to hit my home town back when they first came out. Sure was a surprise the first time I fired one of Skeeter's pet loads out of it (250g 429421 over 7.5g Unique). That cylinder release took a chunk out of my thumb while it was bucking and jumping around. Dang!

Later owned a stainless Bulldog Pug, the one with the fat, solid 2.5" barrel. It used to dissemble its self while shooting. I made the mistake of chronographing several 200g loads out of that short barrel. Very disappointing.

Several years later I bought a 696. The HKS speed loader mentioned above was in the junk drawer from the Bulldog days so I tried it on the S&W. The spacing is not the same as the Charter and I had no end of trouble getting the thing to release. The previously mentioned Skeeter Skelton used to say the Bulldog's frame was the same size as the D-frame Colt...the Detective Special, which as you all know is a 6 shot 38 rather than the 5 shooter Smith makes in their J-frame.

I always wondered why Smith didn't offer the 696 as a M&P, meaning fixed sights and maybe an un-lugged barrel. Bet it would have sold a lot better than the "target" version they did release.

Just sayin',
Dave

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RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

The only .44spl close to a J-frame is a Charter Arms Bulldog. This is my Bulldog "Backpacker" next to my S&W 360J. The difference in the cylinder is obvious but overall size is pretty close.

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Don't kiss smiling dogs!

Not only are they still made, but in many configurations as well. Mosey on over to Charters website and check 'em out. The Tiger Stripe camo version is very cool looking.

Some folks consider the 44Special as the ultimate CCW. Of course, opinions vary and with .38 +P ammo readily available and common place, I not sure the old opinions about .44sp are applicable. I sure don't want 200grains of anything coming my way (as if 158grains would be reassuring in any way). IIRC one of the things folks liked about the Bulldog was it had a bit less muzzle blast out of a short barrel.

I owned a Charter gun before. A blue Pathfinder in 22lr. A very very nice "kit Gun". Alas it was a victim of a divorce (as was my whole gun collection).

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NRA Benefactor

resurrecting an old thread from the grave.... I just wanted to say I'm ecstatic with the fact that I will soon have a Bridgeport made Charter Arms bulldog .44 spl. in near mint condition on its way to me.... it won't stay mint, I plan on shooting it and maybe tucking it on my person at times....

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I'm only allowed 30 characters

Charter Arms still makes a 5 shot .44 Special as far as I know. Oh....I see it's common knowledge!!!

I just left the gun shop with my new bulldog.

637 on my ankle right now.

Bulldog in the box. I hope to shoot it tonight. I have a few boxes of reloads. A new box of ammo was $40.00. I said no thank you.

Stay tuned for a range report. I also want to see if it really fits in a j holster

David

I owned a Carter Arms Bulldog in .44 special once.it was more comfortable to shoot then my snub 19. The .44 is shush a mild round to fire out of one of these.

When the Bulldog first came out, I bought one. Fit perfectly in a holster for the 3 inch Detective Special.

A 200 gr lead bullet with a starting load will tame the recoil.

Congrats. You been hunting for that baby for quite awhile.

A revolver with 5 rounds of 44 Special does not have what other companies call a "small frame".

Be careful with the Bulldog I pretty much ruined one with not very warm hand loads.

I'd buy a Bridgeport Bulldog if I could just find a nice one at the right price. So far, I haven't. I shoot only mild .44 Special handloads in all of my .44 revolvers.

This is a first gen Charter Bulldog. I trimmed the barrel by 1/2" to about 2" and it has smaller grips from a 38. The sights are trimmed back so its Guess & Point now.

It isn't too bad in the recoil department, suprisingly.

Attached Images

Bulldog.jpg (43.3 KB, 340 views)

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>>ARMED LIBERAL>>

I picked my bulldog up last night. I went to the range this morning with some of my dads reloads and blew it all apart. Owned it one day. I kinda likes it before it died. Pictures later.

Must have been a double charge. I have 2 more of the same bullets I will pull and see what he had in them.

Can't blame the gun at all.

More info later.

David

My gunsmith needed ammo to work on one of my 44 Specials, so I loaded up some but asked him, when giving him the gun, if reloads would be okay...I had just loaded them that day. He agreed, but I think it important to make it known. I am not keen on using someone else's reloads and don't expect that others should be totally trusting of mine. At least they would be fired in MY gun, not HIS.

Sorry about your gun but am glad you are okay. At least it wasn't an overly expensive gun that would be difficult to replace. You might ask to see if Charter Arms would give you a break on a replacement, maybe the 1/2 MSRP that we see when obsolete but warrantied guns cannot be repaired for lack of parts and must be scrapped.