Anyone know about this Commemorative??

sw195611 · #1 09-27-2011, 09:44 PM

I just purchased this Model 27-5. It is blue with a stainless cylinder and a 4" barrel. It cam with 2 sets of grips, 1 wood and 1 faux ivory with the initials GSP (George S. Patton). The cylinder is engraved with "2nd Armored Division","3rd Army" also 2 stars, 3 stars, and 4 stars. On the bottom of the yoke it is marked "P013C". It is supposed to be a General George S. Patton Commemorative, but when I call S&W they told me it was made in Sept. 1991, it was shipped as Blue, but they had no further info on it. I found a Patton commemorative by the American Historical Foundation but it was a Model 586 made in 1996. I can not find this gun anywhere!! If anyone knows I would greatly appreciate your input. Thanks, Bill

Masterpiece · #2 09-28-2011, 07:51 AM

Hi Bill,

From what I can come up with your Revolver "Is" one of the 586-4's that the American Historical Foundation commissioned S&W to produce in 1994!! The Cylinder is actually Silver-Plated & not Stainless!! Why it is marked 27-5 I can't say for sure,but could possibly be just a Mis-Stamped Frame which S&W has been known to do on occasion!! They produced these Revolvers in Two Versions!! There were 100 Deluxe Editions that were "Full Silver-Plated" & "Full Coverage Engraved" & 950 Collector Editions that were Two-Tone (Blues Frames & Barrels /w Silver Plated Cylinders) as yours exhibits!! The Number you provided falls into the Serial Number Range of the Collectors Edition Revolvers!! The Serial#'s assigned to the Collectors Edition ran from Serial# P001C to P950C & the Deluxe Edition Serial#'s ran from P001D to P100D!! The Number you provided reflects your Revolver was the 13th one produced in the Collector Series!! Your Revolver should also have a Standard S&W Serial Number on the Butt!! If you could provide us with the 3-Letter Prefix & Two or Three Numbers of the Serial Number on the Butt maybe we can provide a little more info to approximate the year it was manufactured for you!! Hope this helps!!

sw195611 · #3 09-28-2011, 09:39 AM

The serial number is BHF3640. It is stamped 27-5 and when I called Smith & Wesson they verified it is a 27-5 made in 1991. It is an "N" frame revolver. The 586 is an "L" frame, that's why this has me so puzzled. I am adding additional pics.

VaRecon · #4 09-28-2011, 11:04 AM

Well I'm stumped.

Masterpiece · #5 09-28-2011, 11:20 AM

Hi Bill,

Well now I'm just as puzzled as you are!! You are correct it's definitely an N Frame!! Another indication that it's a Model 27 is the Barrel which you didn't have a photo of in your Original Post!! The 586's had Full-Lug Barrels!! Also the information I found said the Serial# assigned to these Patton Revolvers was placed on the "Side" of the Frame,not the "Underside" of the Yoke where yours is!! What I'm now beginning to wonder is if somehow the Cylinder from one of the Patton Commemoratives found it's way onto your Revolver & the Serial# Number was applied by someone after the fact!!! I'm not sure if it's possible to easily interchange these Cylinders between these Two Models or not!! Both Models should have the same Frame Opening for the Cylinder,but why would they go to all the trouble to do this?? I'll see if I can come across some more info about these & get back to you!! Maybe in the mean time someone who actually purchased one of the American Historical Foundation's "Patton" Revolvers will come forward with some information about theirs to clear up this mystery!! Sorry I couldn't be of more help at the moment,but if I find anything I'll be back with an update!! Good Luck!!

Goony · #6 09-28-2011, 11:30 AM

A better, more appealing commemorative in the N-frame rather than the L, I'd say, especially as it's evocative of the pre-war Registered Magnum, which George S. could've owned....

I don't think this is a 27 made up from components taken off a 586, that's simply not a feasible conversion - but I do think it's worth getting an S&W factory letter on it, so as to see to whom it was shipped. If the American Historical Foundation is still in business, I'd be contacting them, as well.

Masterpiece · #7 09-28-2011, 11:37 AM

Goony,

I certainly agree,but S&W is known to have used the Model 586 L-Frames for quite a few of their Later produced Commemorative's that's what's so much of a mystery being this is an N-Frame!! Also,almost all of the S&W Commemorative's built on the Model 27 N-Frames seem to have Unique Factory Serial Numbers assigned to them & his example does not!!

"I didn't think this was possible either,but I agree a "Letter" is in order just to see what Roy has to say!!"

sw195611 · #8 09-28-2011, 01:07 PM

You are right, the "N" frame is more appealing and accurate for a George Patton Commemorative and maybe that is the only way to go is to get a letter from Roy Jinks. I was just hoping someone else had seen one like this before. I won the gun on Gun Broker for $480.00. The seller just listed it as a Model 27-5 US Army.

Masterpiece · #9 09-28-2011, 01:20 PM

Hi Bill,

I just spoke to the Gunsmith at the American Historical Foundation (Larry Mizzel) & he informed me that he "Believes" your Revolver "May" have been issued by the "America Remembers" Foundation rather than the AHF!! He isn't positive,but with some certainty he believes it was!! The ARF and the AHF are based at the same location in Virginia,but they operate seperately from each other!! He is the Gunsmith for "Both" Foundations!! He told me both entitys changed hands in 2005 or 2006 & if his memory serves him correctly he may have some information at his home that may be able to solve this mystery!! He also informed me that he was employed by them before & after the changeover!! He told me to send him a few of the photos you have posted & he is going to go through his Personal Notebook when he goes home this evening & do some checking for you!! If he finds anything he'll get back in touch with any information that may help!! So,I guess this is a step in the right direction at least & as soon as I hear back from Larry I'll post any information I receive!!

sw195611 · #10 09-28-2011, 01:23 PM

Thanks a lot. I hope he can find something. I'll be waiting for your reply. Thanks again.

Masterpiece · #11 09-28-2011, 01:24 PM

Bill,

I thought your Revolver may have been one in the same,but didn't know for sure!! As soon as I hear anything from Larry I'll let you know the results!! He seemed more than willing to provide any information he could!! Keep your fingers crossed!!!!!

sw195611 · #12 09-28-2011, 01:38 PM

I just checked The America Remembers General George S. Patton, Jr. Tribute Revolver and it is a Colt SAA .45. They also made a Colt 1911 Commemorative, but nothing on the S&W. Hopefully your friend will know more because this is a mystery to me. With the internet and all the technology of today it's surprising I can not find another one anywhere.

Masterpiece · #13 09-28-2011, 02:28 PM

Bill,

Just finished sending all the info off to Larry!! When I spoke to him he directed me to their site & I found that one also!! He also informed me that both Foundations assign their members Registry Numbers & the one on your Revolver does belong to one of their members so it most certainly had to come from one place or the other!! Larry believes the reason none of us are coming up with anything is the fact that most of the current information on the Internet only goes back to 2005 or 2006 when they changed hands!! I guess we're going to find out!!

sw195611 · #14 09-28-2011, 03:09 PM

I really appreciate your help. Keeping my fingers crossed.