Casual Target Revolver Advice

[ttolliver]

So I'm looking at picking up a S&W in the next week or two and I'm nearing the end of the search. Any advice I can get on a couple questions would be greatly appreciated.

My purpose for this gun is to be a casual target gun. No intention to compete bullseye or anything. What I'm hoping for is the mechanical accuracy to punch one (maybe a little ragged) hole at 25 feet. That's the range I practice with my 9mm, and I figure if I get a quality enough gun to do that then it will remove the gun as a factor and allow me to work on my shooting skills.

I reload, so ammo cost is less of an issue.

So with all that being said, advice from my trusted gun shop is the 686 with 6" barrel in 357 magnum.

The thing is I've always had the need to be a little different, and I've latched onto the idea of firing 45 ACP (45 AR even better if I find a used one), or maybe even 45 LC.

I'll also say that I tend to prefer to buy new rather than used and worry about why the other person is selling something -- as in what headaches might I be buying. And I know this definitely limits my choices.

So here are the questions --

The 625 PC and 625 JM only have 4" barrels, whereas the 686 is still had in a 6". Is there that much more bullet stabilization in the extra 2", or is that extra length mostly an aid to sight radius?

I like the looks of the modern stainless revlover more than the classic look of the model 22 or 25, but would I be better off accuracy wise to go with the 25 in 45LC for the longer barrel and adjustable sights?

Ballistically speaking, is there an advantage to 45ACP/AR vs 357 magnum vs 38 special? (From what I've read, I'm thinking the answer to this is no -- all can be made equally accurate with 38 Special's slightly shorter length in a 357 Magnum chamber being the only hair to split).


Thanks,
Tom

[nicky4968]

I don't believe barrel length has anything to do with stabilization. It's like throwing a baseball. Once spun, the bullet keeps spinning. Think of how little time the ball spends on the fingers of the pitcher. Yet, it spins just fine.
One difference for shooting between 4" and 6" barrels is how good your eyes are. As you get older, a 4" barrel is more comfortable.
As to what cartridge to shoot, it comes down to whatever floats your boat.

[gr7070]

For your intended use either gun is just as capable as the other. If the .45 4" is what you want go for it. Personal preference is what really matters w/r to 4" v. 6" and .357 v. .45.

I think the 4" bbl is the better way to go, better balanced and a wider range of uses, as well. I happen to prefer the .357 over the .45, but again, this is all personal preference for these two comparisons.

About the only other thing to consider is the grip. The N-frame (.45) is a little bigger grip than the L-frame (.357). Just make sure you handle an N-frame before you buy, if all you have handled are L-frames. It's not a huge difference, but some may not like one or the other.

[PH-2]

tt,

If you get past the "new gun" requirement, I believe you can fairly easily find a LNIB (or without box/docs) model 15 4".
For your intended use, this weapon will excel! They are out there in quantity, just be picky and you wil be rewarded with an excellent mission-specific gun, at probably, 1/3 the cost of the other mentioned guns. .38 special is a very easy re-load, as well.

Mike

[ttolliver]

Thanks nicky4968 and gr7070. I appreciate the advice.

And the point about 4" sight radius being a little easier for older eyes is definitely one I hadn't considered -- as I sit here with 46 yr old eyes...

[ttolliver]

Thanks Mike.

A little voice in my head keeps telling me to hold off buying anything until after the local gun show in early October. Just in the short time I've been scanning forums and such it's amazing the number of times you run across people's best guns being undervalued finds.

[Buford57]

If the stainless look trips your trigger, the model 67 is the stainless sister of the 15. Either one makes a fine 25 year practice piece.

[gr7070]

Originally Posted by ttolliver

A little voice in my head keeps telling me to hold off buying anything until after the local gun show in early October. Just in the short time I've been scanning forums and such it's amazing the number of times you run across people's best guns being undervalued finds.

I think gun shows are largely a waste of time. I have never seen a well priced gun at one, not one.

The good finds are those you happen to stumble into from individuals selling. It's like used cars. The dealer (who are the folks that buy booths at gun shows) is *not* the place to get a bargain, but a private party sale could be.

Can't hurt to go look. Certainly nothing wrong with taking your time and looking thoroughly! However, make sure you know what you are looking for and what they should cost before you buy - that holds true whether you're at a gun show or a LGS or the web, etc.

If you want to buy new go for it. S&W makes great guns today, don't let the back-in-my-day-ers discourage you. S&W also made some great guns in previous decades, too.

[Sprefix]

I like the idea of a 625-6 .45 Colt and it can be made to shoot the rounds you want to fire to be different. My 625-6 is VERY accurate and fun to shoot. If it gets used for CCW, it has plenty of power for the "zombies". You can shoot loafer loads, or step up to some pretty serious power, if need be. JMO

[scooter123]

Just a couple of observations based on learning things the hard way.

One, shorter barrels are in general capable of better Mechanical accuracy than longer barrels. As for why, all gun barrels squirm around a bit when the bullet is transitting the barrel and the shorter the barrel, the less the muzzle can deflect from it's neutral point. If you are shooting with iron sights the longer sight radius tends to balance things out. However if you use optical sights you'll always find a short barrel to be capable of tighter groups as long as both barrels share similar diameters and profiles.

Second, barrels also rise while the bullet is transitting the barrel. It's called Bore Transit Recoil and achieving consistent recoil management is one of the most difficult aspect of shooting a handgun to learn. Now, increase the length of the barrel and the TIME that the bullet also increases. As a result, longer barrels require BETTER recoil management skills than a short barrel. I have a model 610 with a 6 1/2 inch barrel and it's taken me 2 years of work to improve my recoil management to the point where I am just now starting to shoot it as well as my 4 inch revolvers. BTW, it was a bit of a shock to me when I saw how easy it was to "throw" a flyer when I first got that 610, however putting in the time to gain those critical skills has proven worth the effort.

Finally, IMO 25 feet is a good starting point for a new shooter, however it shouldn't be your end goal when shooting for accuracy. Any of the guns you've mentioned are capable of shooting nickel sized holes at 25 feet in good hands. This means that in time you won't be able to see the effect of a minor flaw in technique.

If you really want to improve your accuracy at some point you'll have to start shooting at longer ranges where you'll be able to see your mistakes easily. Generally when I engage in precision shooting practice I'll start at 25 yards and start working back to 35 or 40 yards. If my eyes were younger I'd shoot at 50 yards, however without a scope I just can't see a target well enough at 50 yards. I also spend most of my time shooting for precision by using a rest of some type, either sandbags under the grip or by leaning on a lane wall. As for why my emphasis on shooting from a rest, it's simple, that is how I would use a handgun when hunting. One other benefit to shooting from a rest is that it's a superb way to improve your trigger release skills. BTW, you should NEVER support the barrel when shooting from a rest, you want to support your hands so that the same recoil management skills used when shooting offhand can be used when shooting from a rest.

Now for your question about choices. Both the 686 and 625 in a 4 inch barrel are superb choices to start with. I really wouldn't be too concerned about the difference in grip size between the L and N frames, from the trigger face to the recurve at the top of the backstrap the difference is only about 1/8 inch. Shopping around for a good fitting grip can easily make up for that tiny difference.

What may prove a more critical factor is the recoil. The 4 inch 686 loaded with 38 spl will have recoil that feels very similar to shooting a 9mm M&P. However, load that 686 up with some stout 357 Magnums and the recoil will shock you. Since you plan on reloading you can build "bridge" loads that allow you to work up to full house Magnums, something that forces those of us who don't reload into trying different calibers.

As for the 625, loaded with a pretty standard 890 fps. 230 gn. range load I find the recoil to be very similar to my 30 ounce, 40 caliber, Sig P239 shooting the hotter version of Speers 165 gr. Gold dots. For me it's proven to be a superb training platform for both my Sig and in working my way up to developing better recoil management with 357 Magnums. Basically, I am finding it a superb "bridge" gun. In addition I just love shooting with moon clips.

Now, one warning concerning the 625 JM. That is the serrated trigger is best described as a DNA sampling device. Unless you have calouses on your trigger finger about 1/8 inch thick I can guarantee that you'll be pulling that trigger and grinding on it with a Dremel. Because if you don't, just 50 rounds in double action will have your finger bleeding. BTW, IMO S&W is flat out crazy having the serrations on the trigger this sharp but they are and thus the warning.

[Hawker Man]

Model 14-3 or -4 6 inch 38 special. Reload with the 148 grain hollow base wad cutter over about 2.5 grains of clays powder. You cannot go wrong with that combination. I'm shooting a pre model 14, K38 Master Piece 5 screw that shoots wonderfully with that combination. The gun will do it if you can.

[kidneystones]

tom,

my 2 cents. i have 2 686 revolvers, a 4 inch and a 6 inch barrel. i have yet to have a day when i got the 4 to shoot as well as the 6. at 25 feet (8 yards), the difference is probably negligible, but at 25 yards it is pretty plain to see. but it could just be me.

now, as far as casual shooting only, at some point you may get tempted to try some competition. apparently, 6 inch revolvers are a no go, which is what made me buy the 4 inch one.

a suggestion, get what you think you prefer now, and then get the other one next year, just so you can try them side by side.

[Ashlander]

I like your reasoning on buying new -- avoiding the worry over why somebody is selling. That's a reasonable concern which I share -- except when it comes to law enforcement trade-ins. The cops upgraded to semi-autos and dumped the revolvers -- there are some good buys to be had. I have bought 3 cop trade-ins in the last several months and I just inspect them -- make sure the bore is good, the lock-up is reasonably tight, and that the timing appears to be in order. The price is well south of new.

GR7070 had a good comment on gun shows. If you go to guns shows for good deals, you'll probably be disappointed, but there can be a good selection and fair prices (if, as GR7070 says (paraphrasing), you do your homework -- you'll have a fair idea of what fair is).

At a decent-size gun show a couple weeks ago I bought a Model 66-7 with a 2 3/4" barrel (in excellent condition) for $470 out-the-door. Not a great deal, but it was fair and I was getting ready to pay the seller's initial asking price of $500 (with tax to be added) when he decided to sweeten the pot (and knock me off the fence). I really liked that gun. A new 686 (closest comparable new gun?) the price would have been hundreds more.

Good luck.

[ttolliver]

Thanks for the really great advice everyone. It's really helping me zero in on the 625PC.

And definitely agreed on the points about buying at gun shows and moving the targets back from 25 feet as I improve.

[ttolliver]

Even though I thought I was going 625 PC, I ended up going with a 625 JM.

A local shop had one of each on the shelf and I was able to handle and closely inspect both models. On paper the draw for the PC had been the performance center trigger job, but there didn't turn out to be that big of a difference between these two triggers -- and no difference in SA where I'll do most of my shooting. I also preferred the satin finish and the full underbarrel lug on the JM.

So once I got done trying to convince myself the PC was the better model, I happily walked out with the JM.

And Saturday at the range it did not disappoint

[MajorD]

used 4" smith model 10's at under 200 bucks outside beat from police carry inside like new- will give one ragged hole at 50 feet easily and often further. 25 feet is no challenge for any smith revolver at all.
My personal model 10 (a police trade in- rough on the outside smooth on the inside) will shoot 3 inch groups at 25 yards easily, and keep them within 6 inches at 50 yards as well. the only pistol I have that shoots more accurately is a semi custom 1911 in the 2k range.
if you intend to stick with short range (I grew up shooting bullseye so anything inside 25 yards is short range to me) the extra sight radius on a six inch isn't going to matter that much, and by all means I'd get used- cheaper just as accurate often smoother action due to use and they just put more effort into the actions years ago as opposed to today.

[18DAI]

Another vote for the model 14. The original one, not the so called "classic". I've got a 6" 14-5 and a PC 4" 14-6. Scary accurate. The full lug makes shooting 38 wad cutters feel like plinking with 22's.

Tack driving accuracy in a good looking revolver. Good luck with your decision! Regards 18DAI

[stantheman86]

Any S&W revolver will serve you as a casual shooter. I would just not choose an older j-frame, since they aren't the kind of guns you want to take to the range and run 400 rounds through in an afternoon.

I have a 6" 10-5 that will outshoot my 8 3/8" Model 14, so go figure That 6" 10-5 looks beat on the outside, it has a newer hammer and trigger, is totally non "collectible" but that thing is scary accurate in both DA and SA......... Barrel length,target sights, a "glass rod" SA break,and a "worked" action are not always indicators of overall accuracy. A also have a bone stock security trade in 64-7 that shoots ragged holes in DA at 15 yards. You just never know. Each gun is an individual.

[scooter123]

I think you made a wise choice in the 625 JM, however if you do any shooting with it double action you'll probably come to hate that serrated trigger, it's like a bundle of razor blades.

First thing I did with my 625 JM was to tune the action and pull the trigger and grind about 70% of the serations down and polish the face. Now it's MUCH more comfortable to shoot in double action and I don't have to worry about bleeding all over a brand new gun.

As for it's accuracy, last time at the range I put the first two shots in double action into the X ring at 30 feet with a seperation between centers of only 5/16 inch. I was quite tempted to just call it a day, it's pretty darned rare for me to nearly put two bullets into the same hole. However I had 16 moon clips loaded up for it and a loose box of 50 so I shot all the ammo I had with me. Finished up in slow fire double action at 50 feet for the last 24 rounds shooting head shots at 50 feet on a B-27R and only missed 5 times. Flat out the 625 is fast becoming my favorite shooter, it's accurate, the recoil is easy to handle, and it's easy to shoot well with. About the only problem is that after nearly 150 rounds in about 15 minutes it was so hot I wish I had thought to wear gloves.

[Engineer1911]

Three hours at a gun show is cheaper then a movie and popcorn. You get to fondle at the gun show.

[one eye joe]

I have BOTH a 4" Model 686 and a 4" 625-3 Model of 1989 in .45ACP. Each of them is a great revolver. As you reload, the cost and variety of ammo on the shelves is not an issue. If it were. I would go with the 686. Since it is not, I would suggest the 625-3. Four inch versions are hard to find, but five inch versions are plentiful. My 625-3 shoots one ragged hole groups @ 50'. It is THE MOST ACCURATE S&W revolver that I have ever owned.Your thought s on used guns are unwarranted. LNIB guns are just that, if you buy from a reputable source and examine what you are purchasing. Quality of American manufactured goods--including guns--has not risen over time, it has declined. As a result, fine old weapons are coveted by those in the know. There is NO ADVANTAGE to buying new. I have NEVER heard of anyone getting screwed by purchasing a gun (or anything else for that matter) from a fellow forum member on this forum. MAYBE it happens, but I've been around here a while and I've not witnessed it. I would not hesitate to buy from a member of our forum. It's a stellar group of people IMHO.

[gkitch]

I bought four Model 27-s (Used, of course) in four different bbl lengths over the course of several years. Once I had the set, it was only natural to take them to the range and run a bunch of 38 reloads through them to see the difference in how they shot against each other. The winners?
#1. The 8 3/8". WOW! There was a huge difference in group size
#2 The 5". Nice shooting gun with a tight group.
#3 The 3.5" was just behind the fiver in groups.
#4 Surprise! The 6" was last and noticeably so.

I bought the 6" from a friend who had never shot it. When I told him that it shot worse than the others he wanted to buy it back and was sure he could fix it. Turned out that some previous owner had over opened up the forcing cone. While it does not shoot bad, it does not shoot as well as it should.

I agree that most used guns a great, but sometimes they are below par and it is sometimes something one would not detect with a basic inspection.

[one eye joe]

Originally Posted by gkitch

I bought the 6" from a friend who had never shot it. When I told him that it shot worse than the others he wanted to buy it back and was sure he could fix it. Turned out that some previous owner had over opened up the forcing cone. While it does not shoot bad, it does not shoot as well as it should.

I agree that most used guns a great, but sometimes they are below par and it is sometimes something one would not detect with a basic inspection.

In over 50 years of shooting and trading in handguns, I have NEVER encountered nor heard of such a thing. If you stick to NIB or LNIB weapons from REPUTABLE dealers, you will avoid these kitchen table hackers......

[gkitch]

Originally Posted by one eye joe

In over 50 years of shooting and trading in handguns, I have NEVER encountered nor heard of such a thing. If you stick to NIB or LNIB weapons from REPUTABLE dealers, you will avoid these kitchen table hackers......

Yep, such issues are rare even if one only buys "shooter grade" guns.

Even a reputable dealer would have missed this modification of the forcing cone, as it was discovered by applying a micrometer and comparing spec only after shooting it. The groups was NOT horrible and most would assume they were off a little off, or had some substandard ammo.

[one eye joe]

Originally Posted by gkitch

Yep, such issues are rare even if one only buys "shooter grade" guns.

Even a reputable dealer would have missed this modification of the forcing cone, as it was discovered by applying a micrometer and comparing spec only after shooting it. The groups was NOT horrible and most would assume they were off a little off, or had some substandard ammo.

You're absolutely correct, gkitch. Nobody would have spotted that modification upon casual inspection. I have bought clean shooters often through the years. Only a handful of the handguns I own were purchased new. I especially favor clean, little used S&W stainless steel revolvers. Most anything wrong mechanically or cosmetically can generally be repaired quite easily, once discovered. I stressed NIB and LNIB weapons to the OP, as he has this unwarranted fear of pre owned weapons. Below is a trio of Mountain Guns, all purchased used.....

[Stainz]

ttolliver,

How do you like that 625JM? They are nice... I've been enjoying mine since I bought it, an early one, 2/05. If the grooved trigger takes DNA samples with every pull, as mine did, you can soften those 'teeth' with a strip or two of fine emery cloth. The front sight is springloaded and can be changed in seconds without tools. I prefer the HiViz/SDM fiber optic front sight - but I am a plinker. The gold beaded Patridge OEM sight is better for bullseye paper punching. The sight required is a 'Classic/DX' style with a .250" height. Try those JM grips for a while - they grow on you. I reload, too - and bought new Starline brass, .45 ACP & .45 AR alike, for mine. Starline .45 ACPs load into Ranch Products blued steel moonclips, which were $35/100 diectly from R P, easily by hand. You can't have 'too many'! I prefer the $15 Brownell's nutdriver-style demooner. The .45 ARs fit the HKS #25 (Not the 25-5!) speedloaders. Use Federal primers for 0 ftf's. Congratulations!

Stainz

[mg357]

Have you stopped to consider the humble .22 for casual target practice?
The ammunition is inexpensive and with proper care and maintenance a good quality .22 revolver will last a lifetime.

[gkitch]

Originally Posted by one eye joe

You're absolutely correct, gkitch. Nobody would have spotted that modification upon casual inspection. I have bought clean shooters often through the years. Only a handful of the handguns I own were purchased new. I especially favor clean, little used S&W stainless steel revolvers. Most anything wrong mechanically or cosmetically can generally be repaired quite easily, once discovered. I stressed NIB and LNIB weapons to the OP, as he has this unwarranted fear of pre owned weapons. Below is a trio of Mountain Guns, all purchased used.....

I bought a Model 24-3 NIB when they came out in 1984. The timing was off! I was too stupid to send it back to S&W to fix it then...actually paid a gunsmith to do it. Still have the gun. NEW guns can have issues too but at least they are under warranty. Inspection of the gun is ALWAYS a good idea, NIB or 50% condition.

[m657]

you made a great choice....now....off to the range to find the 'best' load....target photos appreciated!!!

[surveyor47]

I was strongly considering buying one of the new 45ACP revolvers until I attended a recent Vintage Handgun Match. A gentleman of my acquaintence is a fantastic shot and he bought a gun that should have been beaten every other gun at the match. That gun was a 5" S&W 45ACP, essentially a copy of the Model 1917 revolver. He was using full moon clips with the same ammo he uses in his 1911. He was using a full moon clip tool to load his clips, which were not fitting into chambers easily and was fumbling when it came time to load. Perhaps this is the reason the military used half moon clips. During firing, his bullets jumped out of cases during recoil jamming the gun, evidently due to insufficient crimp. After this happened twice, he was given fresh factory ammo by the rangemaster. Even then he was fumbling with full moon clips and the gun was disqualified from the match, at which point he was loaned a 1911 to finish the match. If that is the sort of experience the military had with 45ACP revolvers, it is no wonder the military dumped them. The majority of guns on the line were S&W 10s which had no failures whatsoever. The winning gun was a S&W 10.

[scooter123]

Surveyor, you may want to reconsider your avoidance of the new 45 ACP revolvers. Out of the box the chambers in the cylinder in my 625 JM were so free of any trace of machining marks that I suspect that S&W is now using the ECM process to machine the cylinders. Flat out that cylinder had the chambers finished so flawlessly that they looked like a computer generated image of a cylinder.

Now, I did take the time to chamfer the chambers in mine, it only took about 1/2 hour to do the work and I have the tools to do this. Loaded clips now just fall into place and I don't even need to use the extractor to dump a clip, point the barrel up and they fall into my hand. I've also run about 100 rounds through it without clips and all it takes to empty the cylinder is point the barrel up and give it a bit of a shake.

[ttolliver]

No arguments about used often being just fine if you're shopping in the right places and have developed some judgment on what to look out for. I'm right there on other hobbies, just not this one quite yet.


Stainz -- I'm liking it just fine No issues with the serrated trigger yet, but shooting almost all SA target work.

I just finished loading another 200 rounds of 200gr SWC last night. All in new R-P AR brass. And with Federal primers since I tossed a Bang spring in first thing. Even with Federal primers I found I'd get 1 or 2 FTF per hundred with the 6 lb DA pull I had dialed in. I inched it up a bit each of the last two cleanings. I'm probably at the Bang recommended 7 lbs at this point.

My first batch was loaded at the Speer #14 starting charge and was so slow they tore more paper than they punched. That was 4.5gr of 231. Comparing to the other manuals, it turns out the Speer starting charges are well under other published starting loads. 5.5gr on the next batch did the trick nicely.

I'll get some .45 ACP onto the loading bench soon and check out shooting with moonclips.

The one thing I am surprised at is how dirty the thing is after a shooting session.

[Tyrod]

As an aside, for the folks over 50 years of age. In 2005 at the age of 51, I decided to get rid of the gasses I've worn since childhood. Not the exact same glasses as I would get new ones every 2 years. I got the Lasik Surery with Wavefront Technology. Hot fudge holey moley, I see better than I ever did with glasses. Got rid of my bad astigmatisms (very expensive glasses). I still need to wear reading glasses for up close work. That's just because at age the human eye loses the abilty to focus near and far. My eyes come into sharp focus without glasses about midway between my elbow and wrist with my arm extended in front of me.

Needless to say my new 20-10 vision has tighened up my groups a tad. Yes, it expensive, but the improvement is amazing. It's better than having 19 year old eyes.

[NE450No2]

Originally Posted by surveyor47

I was strongly considering buying one of the new 45ACP revolvers until I attended a recent Vintage Handgun Match. A gentleman of my acquaintence is a fantastic shot and he bought a gun that should have been beaten every other gun at the match. That gun was a 5" S&W 45ACP, essentially a copy of the Model 1917 revolver. He was using full moon clips with the same ammo he uses in his 1911. He was using a full moon clip tool to load his clips, which were not fitting into chambers easily and was fumbling when it came time to load. Perhaps this is the reason the military used half moon clips. During firing, his bullets jumped out of cases during recoil jamming the gun, evidently due to insufficient crimp. After this happened twice, he was given fresh factory ammo by the rangemaster. Even then he was fumbling with full moon clips and the gun was disqualified from the match, at which point he was loaned a 1911 to finish the match. If that is the sort of experience the military had with 45ACP revolvers, it is no wonder the military dumped them. The majority of guns on the line were S&W 10s which had no failures whatsoever. The winning gun was a S&W 10.

I would have to say that his problems were Operator error.

I shot PPC with a 38 Special for several years. I carried a S&W 44 Mag for a Duty Gun for several years, I used speed loaders for both. However, I also used a S&W Mod 25-2 as a work gun and in IPSC matches for several years and I can reload the Mod 25 in 45 ACP way faster than a "regular" revolver with speed loaders.

IMHO no revolver loads faster than a 45 ACP with full moon clips.

[Dale53]

The most enjoyable revolvers I have ever owned are the 625-8 JM Special (4" barrel) and my 625-6 Model of 1989 with 5" barrel. Here is the JM:



Here's the Model of 1989:



I am now a "Certified Old Fart" with vision problems and my Red Dot Sights have "put me back in the game".

Dale53

[AzShooter]

You made a great choice in the 625. You can download it and shoot it forever with no problems for pain. Accuracy is real good in mine. I do shoot competition and shoot 230 grain cast bullet but I load for about 600 fps

That makes a great Minor load for ICORE and USPSA shooting where you shoot targets from 3 yards to 35 yards. Slow and accurate beats fast and sloppy.

The serrated trigger will let you keep you finger on the same spot and help in accurate and fast shooting. For single action it just helps you keep your finger in the same spot. Again for accuacy.

Look at ICORE.ORG to fine a club near you and try them out. You will be happy. Good bunch of guys and gals at the matches all having fun.

[Stainz]

Nothing reloads faster than moonclipped 230gr FMJ's in my 625JM. On the other end of the speed spectrum... my moon clipped 8-shot 627's!

Check your 625JM's ejector star - it should be 'eased' on the entry side, a feature, at least of the early, 625JM's. I have noted quite a slow-down when loading moonclipped 255gr LSWC's, actually very close to full wadcutters with that big flat 'nose', and comparing them to the tractor beam-like entry of round nose ammo.

As to nastiness when shooting, that seemed a feature nine years ago, when I started reloading .45 ACP's for my first 4" 625-8, of HP-38/Win 231. I switched to Titegroup in my .45 Colts for my 625MG so chambered, due to it's case volume/position insensitivity. An added plus, which caused my general use - including .45 ACP - to switch to Titegroup, was the lessened fouling. It was characterized by a light grey muzzle coat that easily wiped away with even tp! I like 230gr FMJ's over 4.5 gr Titegroup in Starline brass with Fed primers - yields ~800 fps.

Stainz

PS I aided the rapidity of loading moonclipped ammo by adding a re-sizing/factory crimp Lee die to the fourth hole in my Dillon 550. It really helps with lead rounds!

[one eye joe]

Originally Posted by NE450No2

I would have to say that his problems were Operator error.

I shot PPC with a 38 Special for several years. I carried a S&W 44 Mag for a Duty Gun for several years, I used speed loaders for both. However, I also used a S&W Mod 25-2 as a work gun and in IPSC matches for several years and I can reload the Mod 25 in 45 ACP way faster than a "regular" revolver with speed loaders.

IMHO no revolver loads faster than a 45 ACP with full moon clips.

I MUST AGREE. Sounds like operator error to me also. Reloads are slicker than snail snot in my unmodified 625-3 Model of 1989, using RIMZ moonclips....