22 cal lead buildup.

I just acquired a new 617 4” after many years of shooting semi autos. I do shoot a lot of 22 so I’m well aware that rimfire ammunition is notoriously dirty. My question to those of you who shoot 22 revolvers is about lead buildup on the lower edge of the top strap above the cylinder gap. My 617 created quite a ridge after about 250-300 rounds.



I also had some spiderwebs left behind in the cylinder, I assume from lead shaving off the bullets as they pass to the barrel. Normal? Not normal? I always shot jacketed ammunition through my Model 19 and never had this issue.

The gun shoots well and the trigger is great but the black on black sights are not working for my old eyes. Before I address the sights I would like to know if I have a clearance issue between the barrel and cylinder. Your thoughts???

IMO what you are seeing is normal, 22LR can be unbelievably dirty to shoot. However, some ammo's are noticeably cleaner shooting than others. I've found Winchester Wildcat to be the most accurate ammo in my 617 but it's so dirty shooting that I can't get beyond about 70 rounds between cleanings because of fouling in the chambers. On the other hand I can shoot 150-200 rounds of the Federal 550 bulk without any issues with fouled chambers and cleanup is much easier, however accuracy drops by about 30%.

My advice, try out the different ammo's available in your area. You may get lucky and find an ammo that is both clean shooting and accurate. In my case, I have to choose between pinpoint accuracy or clean shooting, so I reserve the Winchester for those days when I want the smallest groups I can shoot and choose the Federal when I'm just plinking. BTW, the Fedral isn't bad, it'll group under 3 inches at 100 feet, it just won't shoot between 1.7 and 2 inches like the Winchester.

As for sights, I would suggest that you look into an Optical sight. Below is the J Point reflex that I have on 3 of my revolvers that I use for precision shooting and it's a great choice for shooting out to about 40 yards, beyond that I really need a scope.



Link to my report on the J Point.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/155300-purchased-2-more-j-point-reflex-sights-range-report.html

Now, one note. If you read my report throughly you'll note that I mention the optical quality isn't perfect. Fact is the dot can be a bit fuzzy in some lighting levels due to it only featuring 4 intensity levels. In addition the Acrylic lens isn't "perfectly" clear. However, it's compact, has a rear sight notch molded into the case, and it's held zero perfectly. If you want a sharper reticle display you may want to look for the Doctor reflex which features a glass lens. JP Rifles offers mountings for both the J Point reflex and the Doctor using an adaptor plate on their mount, so you have a couple of very good options. Downside is cost, either will set you back close to 400 dollars with shipping, mount, and sight. However, once you've shot with a reflex that is mounted this low in relation to the bore axis you'll understand why I chose to purchase 3 of them. One other plus is that it only took a bout 5 minutes to whittle clearance for the sight in the Galco leather holsters I use with these guns.

I have used 617's in an event where we allow kids to do a quick famfire along with a parent, they will get about 500 rounds in it in one day. Sometimes the rounds begin to keyhole before the end of the day---they lead up the bores real good. Must clean the barrels real good before using again. Some ammo is worse than others. The crud around the frame and cone is unavoidable. One machinist friend of mine believes stainless is worse about leading in the bore. I have found nothing better than shooters choice lead remover so far---but I still wish it was stronger.

oh---CCI Standard Velocity and Subsonic I find to be very very good accuracy wise right now----and at 7 cents a round! The Golden bullet Remington is not as accurate but OK and is 3 cents a round which is the cost of Federals cheapest and Winchesters cheapest.

You'll get what you see to some degree even with copper washed bullets but they'll sure help lessen it. I usually use WW Power Points with Federal AE HP's next. Lead in the barrel is no problem and cylinder cleaning is easy but after an entire summer of shooting my topstrap and forcing cone area resembles yours. A dissassembly and overnight soak in Hoppes 9(yeah, I know, but I use it in spite of what S&W says!) and the revolver cleans right up. I said after an entire summer 'cause I HATE tp clean guns!

Thanks guys! I just wanted to know if I was experiencing normal conditions. I'm used to shooting 22 bolt action rifle and that is relatively clean compared to my 617. I guess I'll be looking for an optic setup that suits me. I have a Burris Fast Fire I may try first just to see how that works for me. As always, I'm open to further suggestions.

This ten shot eats through ammo faster than a magazine fed rifle! Must be the fun factor.

If I were you I'd get a lead removing cloth. It won't harm stainless, so you can use it on the topstrap, and it also works great for the front of the cylinder to remove all of the carbon and lead buildup there. The Otis cleaning equipment allows you to get a very tight patch that will remove most of the lead slivers from the barrel. I love to shoot my 617, but it takes me about an hour and a half to clean it to my standards after every range session. I have used Winchester Wildcats, Remington Mohawks, Remington Golden Bullets, Winchester Super X, and CCI Minimags so far. The minimags have the most oomph but aren't quite as accurate as I would like(they're great for steel plates though). The Golden Bullets and Winchester Wildcats are the most accurate, and I've never had a reliability issue with the Golden Bullets. The Super X's are absolutely the dirtiest ammo I've ever put through anything. Soft lead, lots of carbon buildup...made the 617 look like my Uberti Desperado after a day with black powder rounds.

Good for you to take time to get the youngsters involved in shooting!

I got rid of some of my forcing cone leading in a M-17 and M-18 by making sure that there was minimal left-right crane and cylinder travel.

Sometimes the forward ejector rod latch mechanism does not fully trap the rod. Check for this condition by grasping the ejector rod (cylinder closed), then check for travel to left & right.

A little more engagement of the spring loaded catch (retained under the barrel) will stop much of the side slop. It takes a special pin punch for round headed pins to remove the retaining pin.

Adjusting this may cause issues with the bevel on the end of the ejector rod.

When I first got my new 617 I ran 300 rounds of Federal Champion through it. It leaded up so bad in the top strap area that the cylinder would hardly turn. I only use the Federal in my 22a now. For the 617 I switched to CCI Blazer ammo. They make much less mess of my gun. Even though they aren't plated.

that sort of lead build up is normal -it will happen on any wheel gun with lead bullets. the best advice is to ignore it- it does notaffect function or accuracy- whatever comes off with a little brushing is fine. no need to go nuts on it to remove all of it.

Well, it's normal, but I'd bet the ranch that it it's a carbon deposit and not lead. Carbon will build up in any revolver that's not cleaned regularly, particularly in the area above the forcing cone. It is, as others have said, a particular problem with .22lr because the round is inherently dirtier than centerfire ammunition. The good news is that it's easily removable. Gentle probing with a dental pick will break it off. You'll know it's carbon because it will break into a black powder with probing.

If you don't want to use a dental pick, then get some bronze wool or Chore Boy at your local hardware store. Tear off some strands and twist them into a cord that will fit between the forcing cone and top strap. Then, "floss" the area just as if you were using dental floss. That should remove the deposits.

My best advice, however, is to clean the gun after each trip to the range. It takes about 100 rounds for carbon to start building up. Two minutes with bronze wool or Chore Boy "floss" will get it right out of there.

I fire CCI Standard Velocity ammunition from my 617. The gun loves this ammo and I find it to be somewhat cleaner burning than other brands, with emphasis on "somewhat cleaner." Just about all .22 ammo is filthy stuff, CCI is just a bit less filthier than some other brands.

I'd disagree on the "normal" part.
I have a 34 that's never done that.
I have a 1975 Ruger SS that's never done that. It's my highest mileage gun & doesn't always get cleaned between sessions.

And I've fired other .22 revolvers over the years that have never done that.

Two new Ruger SP .22s were the only .22 revolvers that ever HAVE done that for me, both were determined to have improperly cut forcing cones.

I'd suggest, before you give up & decide you have to live with it, you get the cone gauged, have a gunsmith check bore/chamber alignment with a range rod (which is not a cleaning rod), and get the rotational cylinder play checked. Might need to be tightened up slightly.

Your deposits look to me like the gun's really shaving lead.
The Ruger SP here now had its cone opened up to max, and has now had 880 rounds of mixed brands & types through it without cleaning, as a test. Absolutely zero lead plating in the cone or bore, with some burned carbon buildup on the frame around the cone, but nowhere near as bad as that shown in the photo.

The gauge itself can be ordered from Brownells for about $40, if you don't have access to a gunsmith & want to check the FC yourself.

I just don't buy the 200-round cleaning mandate as being acceptable.
I can do that in 20 minutes on a good plinking session.
Denis

Ahhh, I love differences in opinion! I think maybe I'm shaving a little lead because of the spiderwebs left behind in the cylinder. I'm not yet overly concerned. I'll probably shoot the pistol a few more times with various brands of ammo. As soon as the snow sets in here my attention will turn to snow sports and I'll feel better about sending the gun in to S&W for a checkup.

Keep those opinions coming guys, everyone has something to contribute to my revolver education!

One of the reasons you see people selling "Dental Picks" at gun shows is to work on this problem with .22 revolvers. Soak with Hoppe's for awhile then use dental pick to scrape off the excess. If you apply some good cleaner/lube such as Break Free just before shooting, it will keep "some" of the lead from sticking. You should see a 1911 with a Comp after a match using 200 gr Lead SWC's at a Major power factor.

Great micro-photography; no doubt of what we're talking about here. I get similar build-up in my three revolvers so think its pretty normal. I had a thin sheet of brass laying around from another project and I cut some scrapers and picks from that to clean tough areas without harming the finish. I also have choreboy pads I use for de-leading barrels, but never thought to use a rolled up strip above the forcing cone. Thanks for that tip.

You guys are all much more tolerant than I am.
If I had to clean after 200-300 rounds, I'd dump the gun.
Denis

I just returned from my club where I shot my two 617 no-dashes with five different ammos to see which one(s) they liked best. The 6" absolutely loves Federal Game-Shok 38-grain copper-plated hollow points (their load #712) and the 4" liked that load and Federal's Lightning (their load #510). Oddly, neither gun preferred Winchester, Federal or Remington target loads and the 4" shot its worst groups with the Remington target ammo.

Both guns had perhaps 100 rounds shot through them and both cleaned right up using Butch's Bore Shine. For the cylinder faces, inside the cylinder window and around the forcing cone, I use Iosso Gun Brite Polish on a brass-bristled toothbrush-like tool I bought at MidwayUSA.

Ed

Mine does that. I use a bamboo skewer sharpened in a pencil sharpener to chip off the bulk of it when cleaning. It only takes a few minutes, but if you must get all of it off, it takes alot longer.

That is very normal lead buildup. Standard velocity lead ammo produces somewhat less and the Fedearl copper washed/plated significantly less.

After all of the above, I'm realizing how fortunate I am to have such abnormal .22 revolvers. Had no idea they were supposed to be leading up like that, mine never have in over 40 years of rimfire revolver shooting, except for the first new .22 SP I had here with the bad cone.
I B Shootin' while U B Cleanin'.