Ok, I am here to ask for some help, I have searched the forum and came up empty. I am looking for information on the 617. I know thet there are early models without the lock, I saw a -2 and a -4 (so I assume the -3) with no lock.
My first question is what - was the lock added?

Next I would like to know if the 617 ever had an alloy cylinder?

I know the 17 had a 10 shot variation that did have an alloy cylinder.

Was there ever a factory Mod 17 10 shot that had a steel cylinder? if so what revision was it?

617 no dash, 617-1, 617-2 (alloy cylinder), 617-3, and 617-4 all have no internal lock system.

617-5 and 617-6 have the lock.

17-8 had steel 10 shot cylinders i believe

__________________
Kris
OGCA, NRA LM

I will try and attach some notes I have on the 617 dash numbers. You may have to download it to enlarge and view it. I do think it is a comprehensive list up to date.

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Thanks guys less than an hour and I have all the answers, this is a great place. thx happy turkey day.

17-8s never had a steel 10 shot cylinder-only alloy.
617s were made early on with alloy,later ones have steel.

the early 617's were Stainless Cylinders.....alloy cylinders started at -2's....

either the 17-7 or 17-8 had stainless cylinder...cannot remember off the top of my head....dont have my book nearby.

__________________
Kris
OGCA, NRA LM

pardon my ignorance but what is an MIM trigger/hammer?

In a nutshell....a MIM component is injection-molded. To really over-simplify it...it's a hot metallic powder cake-mix forced into a mold and as it cools.....walla....you have a part. Less machining than forged parts and presumably, closer tolerances can be held. There will likely be somebody come along here with a three-page engineering explanation, but I think you can get the idea. MIM is a molded part. A forged part is just that....hot metal pressed into a shape.

It's a pro-con thing like the lock. Some folks seek the older guns with forged components, while the MIM parts do not bother others. I have read a few cases where MIM components have broken, but I have not read much about the failure of forged parts....but that doesn't mean it never happens.

617s-I am only referring to 10 shot versions.Six shot guns were always stainless.
Perhaps some 17s received a stainless cylinder,but it was usually a later refit if the gun was sent in for a alloy cylinder replacement.

Are the MIM parts interchangable with the forged parts?

I never have tried, but I can't see why the hammers and triggers won't interchange. The issue you get into is the cost of the replacement parts could drive you into a direction to find one with forged parts in the first place. If you're talking about future replacements for something that may break...that's a different story.

A 617 of any dash number at the "right" price should be purchased. Of course...the "right" price means different things to different people. I would purchase a 617 full of MIM parts and a lock, but I would be looking to trade it for a NL of an older birth when the chance arose. I only use IL and MIM guns as trading-stock to those that either don't know any better, or don't care about the IL or MIM parts.

Now....that certainly doesn't mean there is a thing wrong with MIM parts or the IL either.....we all have our opinions.

My opinion and yours are in line. I am looking for a plate gun and I like tradition as well. I have a small collection of old S&Ws pre-IT. I would like a 617-4. but for the right price I would purchase any 10 shot, And look to trade later. That said I do not need the gun tomorrow, so I am "looking" to buy a -4, if in a reasonable time I can't find one I'll buy one, and move on. I sure do like this forum you guys are the best, thanks for all the help in my quest.....

Let me know when you stumble across TWO NL 617's with a 4-inch barrel. Me and several thousand others would love to have one. Mine is 6-inch purchased new in the middle 80's. I too LUST for a 4-inch.

We can't have a 617 thread without pictures so here goes. Of the 617s, the -4 is my favorite since it was the 10-shot, all SS, prelock version. Here are my two 617-4s, both sporting Ahrends Cocobolo grips, and my DS-10 speedloaders. The 4" version balances very nicely and it probably my favorite.

GREAT collection civil. I almost get some wood in my pants when I see pictures like this!

I guess I'm one of the lucky ones - I have both a 4" and a 6" no-dash 617. I bought the 6" new in 1989 and the 4" on GunBroker two months ago.

Both guns shoot great and both like Federal 38-grain copper-plated hollow-point loads best!

Ed

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I think you need to change your handle to "AboveaveregED".

Is there some designation for a six shot cylinder in the 617-4 6"?

-=BDD=-

Not really. I just persistently watched for 4" 617s that were pre-lock and pre-MIM six-shooters. I saw several over the past year or so sell for well over $700 and found an unfired no-dash for which the owner wants a cool grand.

Believe it or not, that 4" I bought went almost all the way through a seven-day auction with no bids. The seller's minimum bid was $569 and he had a "Buy Now" price of $639. I was about to place the minimum bid but thought that all it would take was a few $5 bumps before someone would simply hit the "Buy Now" button, so I went right to it. After what I saw other similar guns sell for, I consider it a fair price for that gun.

From what I have been able to learn from some competitive bullseye shooters, six-shot 17s and 617s are in higher demand than 10-shot guns because all their revolver relays consist of six shots and for safety reasons, a lot of leagues prohibit larger capacity cylinders.

Ed

Download the notes I posted in #3. They will indicate what dash numbers in which Smith did the 6-to-10-to-6-to-10 shuffle. There was a time there when nobody knew who was on first (for those of you old enough to remember Abbot & Costello).

Here's my no dash 6 shot 617's

4 inch

6 inch

here are a few with a few not pictured...mostly all no dashes with 2 -1's and a -4



no dash 6"



No dash 8 3/8 "



617-1 6"......and my 12" no dash foot

__________________
Kris
OGCA, NRA LM

Nice collection you have there 410bore

Aggggggggggggg! these are all so nice you guys are killin' me I am on the way to the local gun store to sell some irons so I can buy a 617 I have my eye on. Thanks alot you guys just cost me a bunch of coin....

I know the rules and I will figure out how to post pix as soon as I get it......

MIM triggers will interchange with forged triggers. MIM hammers will NOT interchange with forged hammers.

Barrel length doesn't have any bearing on the dash-number, only the features. The 617-3 was a 6-shot 617 with MIM parts and no lock, the 617-4 was a 10-shot 617 with MIM parts and no lock. If a gun is marked "617-4" and has a 6 shot cylinder, then either the 6-shot cylinder was fitted to the gun, or the gun was mis-stamped.

you know that more answers breed more questions..... I'm looking at the photos and trying to learn the suttle differences, I am a bit confused FYIMO's 4" no dash appears to have MIM hammer/trigger while Civil1977's -4 appears to have C/H hammer trigger.... hummmm

FYIMO's gun has a flash chromed hammer/trigger. no MIM

__________________
Kris
OGCA, NRA LM

OOOOOOHHHHH NOOOOOO!! The DREADED aluminum cylinder M617-2. I have two no dashes as well, and I like this one just as much. The only thing I could not handle on this gun was the Goodyear cheepo grips, so I ordered a set of custom Rosewood, checkered deluxe grips from Hogue. Looks better and feels better. Probably shoots better too. Big Larry

I wouldn't let the aluminum cylinder stop me from owning another 617 NL. I have a stainless 617 ND, but I also own two 317's with aluminum 8-shot cylinders and have shot the snot out of them with no ill-effects noted to date. Besides....you can always order a stainless cylinder if you want too and have the money to waste. Those aluminum cylinders are plenty-strong enough for the 22LR. Once you get past the looks....everything else is academic.

The 6 shot 617 is getting hard to find but the 4" blued 17-6 is almost a rumour....almost.


Once you have a 617 the 18's will be calling your name next.

Good eye. My 6" gun has a case hardened trigger and hammer. The previous owner had those installed but the gun would have come with the MIM versions like the 4" pictured.