I purchased a 1980 Model 15-4 from a guy on Gunbroker. It was advertised as "LNIB". When I picked it up at the FFL, I noticed some things that I wouldn't expect on a LNIB gun (my FFL was quick to point them out to me). There is a small amount of muzzle wear (possibly from a holster) and there were a couple of spots on the grips that seemed to have gone away with a little oil on the stocks. The biggest issue is that there are some light scratches and some black stuff on the right side of the barrel. It almost looks like burnt marshmallow stuck to the barrel. The biggest spot is only about 1/16" in diameter. It's black like the barrel, so it isn't terribly noticeable. I can see how the seller missed it. I tried soaking it with oil and Break Free CLP, but it hasn't come off. I'm tempted to pick at it with something, but I don't know what is underneath.

Anyway, the seller admits that he didn't look at it real closely before he sent it and he wants to make the deal right. The difference in the Blue Book between a 100% gun and 98% gun is $150. I only have about $400 in the gun with shipping and FFL fees, so I couldn't ask for that much, but I feel like I'm owed something, but what? It costs too much to send the thing back when you figure two FFL fees and shipping two ways.

He's offered to make me a good deal on a Model 10 with a 3" barrel which I guess is uncommon. This gun is supposed to be unfired. I don't have the particulars yet. I really wasn't looking for a model 10, but I guess if the deal was right.

Below is the gun that I bought. You can't see the spots in the photos.

I don't think I'd accept a "good deal" make-up offer from a guy who sold me an improperly graded gun in the first place. Sounds like you got a decent price on what is still a pretty good gun despite the minor defects. Ask him for $50. If he sends it, then I estimate it would mean you got a boxed 15-4 in 98% condition for $300 before shipping and transfer. Deal. If you don't want the gun, I bet you could sell it at no loss (apart from transfer costs, of course).

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David Wilson

After I posted this, I received an email from the seller. He's offering to refund the $45 for the FFL fee and shipping. Or, he'll cut me a deal on another gun.

Do you have any idea what might be on the side of the barrel, or what I might use to get it off? I don't want to mess up the bluing and make it worse.

I would take the $45 (very fair) and shoot the gun. You did good on a great revolver.
JMHO

Tom

You can't trust the guy who couldn't see defects your FFL picked out to assess a gun as unfired. I question most any claims of a gun being unfired let alone from someone who can't find a few marks that were readily apparent to the guy (ffl) who's not even buying the gun.

That's not making it right for you; that's making another sale. A sale that you really have no interest in?!!

Take the $45 and run.

His offer sounds fair to me. After all you end up with a 98% Combat Masterpiece for $355!! Not bad at all.

+1 you got a very nice revolver. I would take the money and enjoy shooting !

Thanks for the input, everyone.

I've had deals where I felt like the seller intentionally overstated the condition of a gun. I don't think that is the case here. I had a long conversation with him over the phone when I bought the gun and he sounds like a great guy. He's working hard to make this deal right. I had simply sent an email to him asking if he knew what might be on the barrel and he immediately took accountability and expressed interest in making it right.

I'll probably take the money just because I've already bought 7 guns in the past 60 days. I would actually trust the guy to do another deal, though.

I'd rather have a LNIB gun than the $45, but I'm still getting a good deal.

The "black stuff" problem worries me a bit, but it shouldn't be there and I would do what is necessary to get it off. Try some straight acetone and see if that dissolves it. If it stays tight, rub it with the side of a brass cartridge case and see if that takes it down. (The point being that brass is softer than steel, and the radial surface of the case has no sharp edges that might inadvertently scratch the blue further.)

Worst case, it might be corrosion bubbling up through the blue. If so, I would get it off and just use a drop of cold blue to cover the resulting mark.

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David Wilson

That's a lot of gloss on that wood on a nearly new gun.

Am I the only one that thinks they look refinished or is the lighting playing tricks?

I agree to this also. Some people misrepresent their guns on purpose and maybe, just maybe he is truthful when he said he didn't look at it that close. That was his first mistake and then to represent it as (as NIB) was another mistake. I would take the $45 and be happy. Looks like a great gun.

James

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll give that a try.

The worst spot is right between the W and S where the words "38 S.&W. SPECIAL CTG" appear on the barrel.

David,

I tried the acetone and the brass and below is a pic of what I have now.

Pitting....







Is the pits...

i think you did great! take the $45 and youll be doing even better! i would of had no problem paying 400 for that piece in the shape its in!

Yep. Snatch up that $45 he's offering and call it square. You got a good deal, blemishes or not.

Honestly? I'd see what he had to offer on the 3'' model 10. It is a great piece, and if he is willing to cut you as good a deal as he did on the 15...well, I'd rather have the guns than $45 back in my pocket. I'd only end up spending it on a gun anyhow.

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Regards,
Brian.

Any idea what a LNIB Model 10 with a 3" barrel is worth? I don't know the age of it.

The new owner said he oiled the stocks himself. - I'd take the cash, keep the gun (which is still very nice) and enjoy it. You got a great price on a good looking firearm. Like the others have said, I'd take some action on the spot on the barrel. This isn't the Mona Lisa we're dealing with here; and who knows, it may come out quite nicely.

I really get irritated at transactions like this. If the seller is selling, he has the obligation to correctly describe the firearms. Of course, the buyer has the obligation to ask questions and get plenty of good clear pics.
My problem is when the seller doesn't describe accurately and then we, as the buyer, is penalized with eating transfer fees/postage and back ground checks, where as if the seller accurately decribed, we would not have bought in the first place.
Of course, since you tried and did clean it, the return option is void. Personally, it would always bother me regardless of what is refunded.
I have bought 2 revolvers on Gunbroker and I willtell you , that I will never buy online agian. If I can't see and hold the firearm in hand before buying, then I will do without.
Ron

Value is subjective of course, but for a LNIB 3'' model 10?....I'd probably pay as much as $500.

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Regards,
Brian.

I had a long conversation with the seller. He feels real bad about the deal. He offered to take the gun back, etc. We ended up settling for a $50 refund. This is not quite the killer deal that I thought I got, but it's still pretty good.

Should I do anything to "treat" the pitting, or whatever it is? I don't think I'll mess with cold bluing it unless I need to.

This is the reason I ALWAYS ask for a three day non-firing inspection period. Well, that is water under the bridge. Keep after that pitting with non scratching tools[plastic copper or brass] and keep it lubed . I have found that Corrosion X [either the Aviation or Nauticle version works well to prevent further corrosion. You can google it but I think you can find it at Home Depot or Lowes]. Nick

Just keep that area covered with some kind of corrosion preventing/inhibiting oil. CorrosionX, Breakfree CLP, Boeshield... what ever you do, don't go after those spots with cold blue. It will not match up well at all and stand out much worse than the pits oiled and left alone.

If those spots are still raised/bubbled a bit, I have had great success with the old copper penny trick. Spray on WD-40 and let it really soak in and soften that stuff up. Then using the edge of a real (minted before 1982) copper penny, gently rub/scrape until it breaks up and can be wiped off with a cleaning patch soaked with WD-40. I've also used a copper bore brush in addition to the penny to work at the rust.

The soft penny will leave copper smears that will clean off. I wish I had some before and after pics of a old M&P revolver I did that to, it was truly amazing how well it turned out.

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Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222

If this was an expensive gun, I'd be pretty bummed, but for $300, I can live with it. It's really not bad under normal viewing as compared to blown up in my photo. The rest of the gun is nice and the box is in good shape with the paperwork (I had to glue a corner of the box, but you can't tell it now). I told the seller that I'd be a lot more upset if I thought he had intentionally mislead me. He had trouble sleeping last night when he learned about the deal. Real nice guy.

I'll keep it clean and lubed to prevent further corrosion.

Thanks for the reply. I just bought some Break Free, so I can use that.

The raised area is pretty much gone. I used the acetone, the brass cartridge, and my finger nail. I think I'm down to good metal now.

+1. I always like to examine a gun in person before putting the money on the table, but that's just me, and a bunch of other people.

That would definitely be my preference, but there aren't any good gun shops around here (as far as sources for used S&W's). The shops that have anything are 1 to 2 hours away and their prices are usually high.

I've had a few less than perfect transactions on Gunbroker, but no real bad ones. Overall, I've done pretty well with my 17+ transactions.

I was thinking the same thing but didn't want to say it. I believe the "black stuff" is the remnants of a bad blueing job. I would look very closely at the letters and edges to see if there is any signs of buffing.

Blackdeuce, I guess that's the advantage of living in a metropolitan area, especially in the South. Lots of gun shops and gun shows. The selection of nice guns is pretty incredible. But my wife retires in less than 4 years, and when that happens we are moving to the country in Tennessee. Hopefully I will have my collection straightened out by then and I can take game from my deck. I actually have my hunting guns together, as well as my SD pieces. Now it's down to fun collecting and fondling for the future. When the good shops are two hours away you have to deal with other avenues, and the good will of honest sellers.

I wish you luck in your search for the right guns for you.

Pfft. Take the $45 and run. Don't do business with the guy again. LNIB is 98% to most of us.

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SV,14,17,21,28,29,39,66,586

Well,I'm with the "keep it,you got a great deal crowd". There ain't many of us without a few warts. And don't stop buying online. I wouldn't have even half of the great guns I do if it weren't for online offerings. At least you seem to have found a seller with some integrity,even if he comes up a little short in the condition-rating catagory.
f.t.

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South Carolina-God's country

Thanks for the input, everybody.

I have a 1905 4th change that was factory reblued. It's a real nice reblue, but there are obvious signs of the reblue. I don't find anything that makes me think that this 15-4 was reblued. Blue is worn in normal wear spots, edges are sharp, etc.

I don't know what to think about the grips. The gun dates to 1980. The grips aren't numbered to the gun, but I don't think they were numbering them in 1980. The seller wasn't aware of them being refinished, but he didn't buy the gun new. He bought the gun on the belief that it was like new and hardly fired. I can tell that it's been shot, but probably not much.

Edit - I found a LNIB 15-4 on Gunbroker and it also has shiney grips.