Finally got a brand new 442 no lock to replace my old Charter Undercover as my back up/off duty gun. Checked it over at the gunsmith's when it arrived: no crack under the barrel, nice finish without scratches, decent trigger. I was happy... Until last night.

I decided to see if I could help smooth out the trigger pull some more by dry-firing it a few times. I went to put some snap caps in it and the cylinder would not open freely. No big deal, just shorten the front sideplate screw a bit.
Then the trigger pull was way heavy and felt awful. I realized the firing pin was dragging against the caps and not retracting fully. So, open the sideplate, remove the alloy shavings from the firing pin hole and give the guts a light lube as they were bone dry.
While I was in there I took a look at the main spring rod and the stamping was so bad that the top of it did not rest flat in its notch in the hammer... After a little time with some stones and some polishing it now looks much better. Trigger is now great (though heavy, but it's a duty gun so no spring swap on this one).
Finally I re-assemble and decide to put a little orange paint on the front sight. Takes a minute, and when I look at the new and improved sight picture I realized that the barrel is canted to the right quite a bit!

Called S&W this morning and they're sending a shipping label. I know this is not a top of the line gun for them, but for me it is a big purchase and something I've been wanting for a while. It's just frustrating.

I guess they should put a warning on the box "some assembly required" or sell them as kits like the old black powder DYI from the 80's...

Rant off, thanks for listening.

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Daniel.

Amen, brother. I hear you. Anymore when I buy a S&W revolver, I give it all but an anal exam. The good ones are good -- but you have to get a good one.

So troubleling to hear so many problems with
new smith-wessons. This will eventually be their down fall
in years to come.

Sounds more like a Taurus procedure. I have owned quite a few NIB Taurus revolvers and it's common knowledge that the first thing you do is crack it open, dump out the mill-shavings and floor-sweepings, remove the cosmoline and polish all the moving parts. I have a few very good Taurus shooters and I don't bash them, but you have to follow the cleaning and inspection routine they forgot at the factory.

I have not purchased a new Smith in over 25-years....too many good used ones out there that were made when people cared.

When a company stops producing product as though each and every item is "top of the line," they sew the seeds of their own destruction.

This is very dis-heartening. I'm sorry you had to experience that. Please let us know how it all plays out.

Sorry about the troubles with your 442...

I've got a "post-lock" 642CT coming this week to replace a BG38 which they couldn't fix after sending it to them twice...

While I'm waiting for this gun to arrive, do you think I should preemptively call S&W to order a return FEDEX label?

Edmo

When it comes back, I would check that part of the frame in the yoke area under the barrel again.

My thoughts too.
We've had posts about cracked frames AFTER revolvers returned from factory service.

I have a 642 that has performed well so far, I have not had the issues the OP or some other forum members have had with new revolvers.

GF

LOL...... Too funny!

Yep, that's my big fear right now. We'll see...

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Daniel.

I'm finding more all the time I have to check out the things I buy, new or used. It is not just guns. So far I have not had any problems with the new smith's I have got.

You're awfully patient. I'd have been on the phone to S&W as soon as I encountered the cylinder opening difficulty. Hope it works out.

I just bought a 442-1 "no lock" and it was perfect. I did however lube the guts, chamfer the forcing cone, switched to a Wilson mainspring & added Ahrends Boot Grips. Shoots a ragged hole dead nuts POA at 7 yds. with quality defense loads, e.g., Speer 135 gr. +p & Corbon DPX.

dbarale, I would have at least shot the gun to see how it worked before calling S&W. However, that's just me.

I'm not going to question what you did I'm just wondering why the guns are being shipped without going through a quality control process.

Totally correct, yet neither the Rolls or Rolex was designed and marketed as a potential life saving tool. With all do respect there is a big difference.

There's a simple answer to that. In the broad spectrum of manufacturing there are value added processes and non-value added processes. Each value added process contributes some measureable amount of worth to the end product. For example, suppose the product is at the part of the process where the barrel is attached to the frame. The frame has a calculatable value at that point, whereas, the barrel is just a part that has value but has yet to contribute to the worth of the product as a whole. Once the barrel is attached to the frame the value of barrel is added to worth of accumulated value of the frame.

In a non-value added process, such as an inspection, no value is added to a part or accumulated whole which passes inspection. In a factory that proclaims to use the 3 sigma manufacturing standards, enough inspections along with statistical process control should be "built in" to ensure that the end product would rarely fail. And that is where S&W is dropping the ball. Some inspections can be built into the manufacturing process such as precision measurement performed by a CNC milling machine post operation that only add seconds to the process. Some inspections require that a human being examine and measure parts or the whole. These human inspections are costly and contribute little to nothing to the value of the product. At least from a bean counter point of view.

S&W claims to be a 3 sigma manufacturer, in fact, they produce a line of semi auto pistols named SIGMA to commemorate the fact. Right now it appears that for whatever the reason S&W is under utilizing the inspection process to the detriment of the end product. the 3 sigma method nor statistical process control will help any if the limits are set too wide. It's common during lean times for management to justify processes that don't add value. I suspect that inspection personel have been moved from the inspection process to value added processes to keep up with the huge demand for guns right now. S&W is playing a dangerous game here. If their reputation gets damaged enough, eventually, the lack of quality control will cost them far more in lost sales than those frivolous inspection processes.

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NRA Benefactor

I bought a nib 442 no lock moonclip a few weeks ago.

Looks Great , Works Great.
.

I thought about it and I was fine with what I found all the way up to the canted barrel. I cannot fix that myself and, being a perfectionistic freak, it would bother me everytime I look at the sight picture. I also need to qualify with it in three weeks and figured I should ship it ASAP to get it back on time.

I understand that it is a production item and that quality control cannot catch it all. Like I said, this is just frustrating on something that I have been waiting to get for a while...

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Daniel.

Why not? At least on the canted barrels there is 30 year old camera based technology that could easily catch these errors. This is an inspection process that wouldn't even take a human to operate. It seems evident that S&W knows these problems are occuring and simply doesn't care or is willing to let the customer suffer the consequences, knowing that 90% of the customer base would never realize the problem or, if they did, the customers themselves wouldn't care. Sort of like car manufacturing in the 70s & 80s and we all know what happened then.

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NRA Benefactor

???

Edmo

You mean to say that this is your ONLY handgun? I don't want to chastise you as perhaps you are new to shooting, however, buying a handgun specifically to take a CCW course only a few weeks before is not S&W's fault. S&W will take care of you and rest assured that every returned handgun is duly noted and the person who did the initial work will be spoken with.

A problem is that today's society is not mechanically apt. We have engineers in this country who can't even turn on a lathe. Try & find a good local gunsmith who can work on these type of problems. You can't. We have taught our children to believe for the past 30 yrs. that a mechanical trade is for ignorant idiots and smart kids go to college. What's left is a lot of "flotsam" that couldn't get into college or didn't go for whatever reason, hence they go into a manufacturing job as it is the best paying that they can obtain. We have also shipped most manufacturing overseas and only the very high ends remains apart from most gun manufacturing. These are the people that S&W has to hire as floor workers and to try & teach them these skills can be an uphill battle. Colt for instance recently had ONE man aged over 70 doing revolver repairs and rumors are he's now gone. It's damned hard to teach these skills as the people most apt to learn them have gone to college in today's world and to a better paying job.

I am not making excuses for S&W but rather merely explaining to you the 'bed' we have made for ourselves here in the USA. It's a Walmart world now.

J-frames don't have strain screws.

My ONLY new S&Ws are a 642-1 (NO LOCK) and a 617 with the IL. LUCKILY, both have been issue free and shoot very well..

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'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

Nope, I'm a cop and I need to qualify with it so I can carry it on-duty as my backup. And I'm sorry but a few weeks should be plenty enough on a brand new gun. I foolishly expect new things to work as advertised, call me crazy...

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Daniel.

I don't have light primer strikes and the Jframes do not have a strain screw. I am a little confused by your posts?

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Daniel.

With the increased number of gun being sold today to often the consumer becomes quality control. And a lot of folks dont shoot thier gun enough to know if they have a problem or not

Update on my S&W customer service...

Two month old BG38 "Bodyguard" snubbie sent back twice to make it function. Last week S&W CS said they couldn't repair it and I asked for a "post lock" 642 instead to replace it. The CS rep said it would be here by mid week.

I called today (Friday, two days after it was promised) since it had not arrived and found out the gun was held up at accounting for the last week awaiting on their approval to send to me. I left a voice mail for my CS rep to call me for an update and no response. I guess I should expect an answer sometime this summer? Why am I shocked...

I am rapidly approaching the credit my account point and I'll seek a functional defensive pistol elsewhere point. Man, it gets better by the day! I like my old S&W handguns, but they'll never have me for a customer again.

Edmo

On arriving to look at a model 60, I noticed a 642. As a carry firearm it made much more sense to carry that 642.
I purchased the almost new 1980 model 60 with it's orginal box, papers and cleaning gear.
Why? Because I knew the chances of it giving me any sort of a problem or having to call S&W for whatever reason were almost never going to happen.

I am not crapping on S&W as a company. I am happy that they still manufacture firearms one State away from me.
I also know that S&W is no small firearms company.
I do not have the numbers of the total revolvers made and sent out the door everyday, but it is not a small number.

The amount of good revolvers leaving is much larger than the bad. Years ago without a doubt the number of bad revolvers were much smaller and that brings me back to why I bought the more expensive 1980 model 60 over the much newer model 642.

One thing is for sure though, If I am carrying a revolver as a protection tool, it will work every day, every time and the day it needs a repair is the day it gets traded.

Yes, and just because a few guys like me vent their frustration on an open forum doesn't mean that all S&W revolvers are junk. Far from it...

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Daniel.

Fair enough, but statistically you're much more likely to be in a car accident than a gun fight, and when you're in that car accident, systems like stability control, passive restraint and airbags usually mean the difference between walking away and not.

So even though a Rolls isn't marketed as a life-saving tool, it has that onus on its build quality coming out of the factory, just like a Smithie.

But the point was that even the best marques sometimes send out a dud -- an inescapable reality of the production line no matter the significance of the product or the care taken in making it, and the higher the output, the more duds that will get through even with good quality control in place.

The real issue is: is the producer doing its realistic best to control for duds, is the consumer educating him or herself to spot them, and does the producer make it right when one is brought to their attention by the consumer?

I'm an avid (rabid?) Airweight Centennial fan and I don't recall anyone on here ever reporting receiving a cracked frame gun back from the factory. Can you provide a link?

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Centennial Every Day

Got my 617 back from warranty work, S&W destroyed the frame

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Daniel.

With the new style yoke screw, most people have tendency to over-tighten them. You're not supposed to screw it down as hard as it'll go, just enough to be flush with the frame but not so much that the yoke drags. That's why you see the application of red Loctite on the screw from the factory.

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Centennial Every Day

Not an Airweight Centennial but your situation is still a bummer!

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Centennial Every Day

Sorry for your troubles. The venerable S&W brand has taken some hits lately. Maybe they're moving too fast to fill orders and are sacrificing QC in the process. My dad instilled in me as a kid that if something is worth doing, it's worth doing right. In this regard, if a product is worth making, it's worth making right, especially a firearm upon which your life may depend.

Fedex says the 442 is back at the mothership, now the waiting begins...

I'll update when I get it back.

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Daniel.

Since luck isn't the answer... Prayers sent!...

Got it back yesterday! The barrel alignement is fixed. No cracked frame, but I haven't shot it yet. The paperwork included says that they also replaced the firing pin and mainspring? I did not get a chance to open the sideplate to take a look inside.

I'm happy with the turnaround time and the results so far. Good save from S&W...

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Daniel.

"Trigger is now great (though heavy, but it's a duty gun so no spring swap on this one)."

After a few thousand rounds of dry and live firing of my 3 year old 442-2 no lock, the trigger is now much easier to pull and quite smooth. This is important for me, as I have a lot of arthritis in my trigger finger. It just keeps getting better!

rat

Seriously, dbarale, why don't you get out of law enforcement go into gunsmithing?

I would probably make the drive down to Asheville, NC just to have you work on my revolvers.

Right now I'm contemplating figuring out where allglock lives, driving up to PA and showing up at his door one moring to get him to work on my revolvers. :-)

You just can't find any good gunsmiths these days, at least not around the Washington, DC area.

You are welcome anytime my friend!........

Phil Flack of PF Custom Guns is a great revolversmith in Asheville...

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Daniel.

All I know is that my no-lock 442 has, so far, run flawlessly. That does not mean, however, that I'm not concerned about quality problems other posters have mentioned. I'm keeping an open mind...either way.

Did you buy it with LEO pricing or is this a strictly commercial gun?

I don't recall EVER seeing a LEO priced gun being reported as returned due to defect on ANY forum I have been on the last 20 years.

Glock or S&W! I have never heard of a bad new blue label glock or an LEO special priced handgun.


Maybe you should have purchased it from an LEO only dealer...

Hello 2 years ago!!!!

I am now middle aged, if we live to be 120 years old... So far no arthritis but I don't squat or sit cross-legged either. I am a belt and suspenders kind of guy and a back up to my primary semi auto seems to be in order. I now have a S&W Model 442. It has one interesting feature. It is easy to two-stage the action before firing, much more so than my S&W Model 37, which of course has a single action function and external hammer. I hope the heavy trigger responds to lots of dry fire practice. I vacillated between one of the ultralight 357 Mag five shot models and this one. Surprisingly little advantage with the same 125 grain bullet from a sub 2 inch barrel, toward the magnum, with lots of muzzle blast and recoil. I think I've made a good choice. The first day carrying it bugged me but then I got used to the banging against my thigh in cargo pants.

1980 was smack in the middle of Bangor Punta ownership of S&W and yes there were many QC issues. The old days aren't always great. I was issued a M19 made in 1978 that had the barrel screwed in just a tad too far. I couldn't move the rear sight far enough to get it to shoot straight. Took 4 months to get it back from S&W. I was issued a M28 as a replacement and didn't want the 19 back when it came. Don't assume a 1980 gun will be without issues.

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Support your Police, & NRA

I lost some construction jobs over the years.
The issue was I was building a "Cadillac" and the [B]contracto[r/B] wanted a "Chevy".

When I was sworn in to the IBEW I took an oath to do work in a journeymen like manner. I did my part.
The push for quantity has now pushed QUALITY aside in many businesses. As a union tradesmen we must persevere.
Any thing less is dishonorable to yourself and your nation.

Too bad neither political party understands this.

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Have a blessed day ,
Bull

I had nearly picked up a 642 about 6 years ago and right at the check out counter I looked down the sights and find the exact same problem. I didn't pick up another S&W again until this year. Dad to see this still happening. A guy on the taurus forum just had the same issue as well. So sad that he made the jump to a Smith only to get garbage like that. It's embarrassing.

I bought a new 642 Pro, no lock and moon clips, a few years ago that the cylinder stopped turning and found metal shavings in the works. Cleaned and lubed and it was fine but certainly not what I expected from SW.

All but one of my SWs now are 20+ years old.

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Isaiah 41:10