A few years ago I was shooting my first Model 640 357 Magnum using 38 Special Factory Ammo and it BLEW UP.Smith and Wesson sent me a replacement Model 640 357 Magnum.After this experience I gravitated to Colt revolvers and it sat in my gunsafe.Well today I took it out and noticed a few hits to the slight right of center,which is atypical to me.I loaded up once again with S+B 38 Special Ammo,pulled the trigger,got 1st degree skin burns on my hands,and the barrel 50 feet downrange.Now the replacement 640 for the one that BLEW UP BLEW UP.Pictures are to follow shortly......Mike http://entertainment.webshots.com/ph...47709249tgJAkU http://entertainment.webshots.com/ph...47709249QfqCMW Being this happened twice I am not confident in the quality of Smith and Wesson newer revolvers.The prospect of losing fingers in a third mishap is very troubling indeed and I hope they will make this right

I can't blame you at all for your reservations. This is one reason why I tend to purchase P&R models (mostly used-near mint) examples (to save some cash) when I can. I do have some new Smith & Wesson revolvers with the IL, but it is sad that the same model gun blew up twice.

Keep us posted on S&W's up-coming response.

TAKJR

So it blew up on the first round, or had you shot it a few rounds before it blew up (not clear from your post)?

Are your sure it wasn't the ammo??

Was it the same ammo that blew up the last gun or new ammo? Also what blew up on the old gun? Was it the barrel also?

While there is no question that the barrel shank fractured at the first thread, to characterize this as "Blew up" is exaggeration at best. So far as burns to your hands as a result, there is no reason for this happening any more with this event than when normally shooting any revolver. Again, somewhat of an exaggeration. Why?

There are several other things that cause curiosity. You say you received the gun and just put it away for several years? Where/when/why in that period of time did you polish the gun and paint the front sight of a gun you seem to have had little interest in?

Is there a particular reason you removed the stocks before taking the pictures? It fails logic to understand why this would have been done.

It wasn't the first round more like the 15th.It was factory 38 special ammo from S+B not 357 magnum ammo.This gun was shot approx 1000 rounds and never had a 357 magnum cartridge fired from it.The first Model 640 also had this happen using 38 special ammo factory Winchester without a single round of 357 Magnum fired from it also.The first gun had a separated barrel and cracked frame with this one there is no cracked frame just the barrel.In both cases it was fresh factory 38 special ammo,not 357 Magnum rounds or 38+P rounds.Being both are labeled 357 Magnun,and neither gun ever had anything other than 38 special ammo this shouldn't have happened once much less twice

OK shank fracture is a proper term.I am not a gunsmith and this layman's term for what happened with "Boom,Flash,Burn,Ouch,and barrel 50 feet down range" I termed Blew Up.Next I can see the redness on both of my hands and am a Nurse with over 30 years experience in Critical Care so I am more than capable of assessing 1st Degree skin Burns.Next when I recieved the replacement gun from S+W I did polish it and after I shot it a few times I put the orange on the ramp.I then put it away and got to shooting the other guns in my collection.Finnally I took off my grips prior to taking pics because I was preparing it for transport to S+W for them to assess it.It is very logical to remove grips from a gun prior to shipment to a manufacturer if you want to see them again.I also wanted to take pictures of the entire frame because I figured that people would be interested in seeing the entire frame without the view being interupted by the grips.How this course of action is illogical I fail to see.I hope I have adequately answered all your questions.Michael D Casabianca NRA Certified Firearms Instructor,Chief Range Safety Officer,RN BSPA,CNOR

Do you believe there was a problem witht the ammo.........or do you think it was a problem with the gun??

If that had happened to me, barrel fracture, you can bet I to would have stated my blank blank gun blew up. I think we can excuse a little Poetic license here.

It was the gun not the ammo.Standard factory fresh 38 Special Ammo,not a hot load,38 +P or 357 Magnum.Even if it were a "HOT" 38 Special round,which it was not,that was the exact reason why I bought a 357 magnum so you would have protection from a hot round if it came up.

I tend to agree...

Old Bear thank you for your comment.I described the event in laymans terms and thought the term was descriptive if not technically accurate.I also accurately described the physical injury that resulted as a result of this event.I answered all this posters questions.If someone has a question for me please ask it.If you are going to try to say I am exagerating or lying about a situation that occured where you were not present please keep it off the board and PM me.

Any chance that a squib round lodged in the barrel and caused this?

Ideas?

That's what I was thinking .

Nope the barrel has no bulge marks,no change or disturbance in rifling and there was no change in felt recoil or change in sound of previously fired cartridge.Furthermore I had opened cylinder and reloaded prior to it happening and the bore was clear.What I think was that with the previously fired rounds hitting to the right,somehow the barrel torqued to the right.What remained of the metal where the barrel and frame were once connected you can see that the fragments were bent to the right.Being the gun has a right hand twist to the rifling the barrel must have failed @ the connection between the frame and the barrel.I am no gunsmith so I could be wrong....Mike

Hey Cruiser, can you get a up close clear picture of whats left of the barrel, inside the frame (looking back towards the firing pin) and looking into the barrel so we can see both broken edges?

"Blew up" ... "shank fracture" ... who cares? Debating definitions is semantics nonsense. The OP's 640s reacted to being fired in a negative and hazardous way ---> whether their barrel shanks fractured or they blew up is inconsequential when viewing the photos. The Factory should thoroughly look at this most recent pistol to determine where and why the failure occurred. Luckily for the OP, the injuries were not more severe. Minor burns will heal ... a hot shard of metal in the eye is a bit tougher to deal with.

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I'm with the banned ...

Well, IMHO, it fails logic to understand why you jump to the assumption that the OP is a deceitful liar, based off nothing but a desire to defend S&W, apparently. No picture of his hand was posted for you to have basis to say that his description was not accurate.

If the front half of my gun flew downrange and my hand was burned, I very well might refer to that as "blown up".

That is disturbing. Please keep us informed on what S&W says and does about it.

Was it S&B ammo both times? What bullet configuration?

Every time I read one of these posts I am more convinced than ever I don't want to buy a new/current S&W. Sorry to those who find this offensive but I like the pre-Bangor/Punta guns best. Yea, I have a couple from later years as it's the only way to get an L-frame, which I admire and appreciate, but even those are pre-Lock. YMMV!

Dave

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RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

This time Sellier and Belloit 158 grain FMJ 38 special ammo.The first was Winchester 158 grain FMJ 38 Special Ammo if memory serves me right.I will call S+W tommorrow after work and see what they say.I am hesitant to accept another 640 dreding the thought that there may be a third time.I will try to get pics of inside of the barrel.I took some but they were too blurry.I will keep everyone informed of what S+W says and does.

+1... S&W makes mistakes like other manufacturers, pure and simple. No one needs the 3rd degree about it.

Cruiser, 35+ yrs LE, 30 of which firearms inst/armorer/pretty serious competitor/ have done nothing for about 30 years but teach/fix / shoot handguns. Your gun BLEW UP.number of pieces or where, doesnt matter. This stuff happens to all makes, models, types, ammo problems ,design problems, maintenance problems or combinations of all. I save the fancy words for court. I would be curious how this occurred to possibly save someone else from the same problem. So very glad you were not hurt seriously. Good luck Bob
I have seen several times, the small "clip" that is installed to prevent flame cutting on the topstrap, come loose and become lodged into the forcing cone by a fired bullet. None of the guns came apart, and you couldnt get them apart easily either. Thet were all various scandium models, maybe why they didnt come apart, and this was several years ago.

Thank you Sir, for bringing your report here to the forum, and for your patience in doing so. Flapjack.

Call it what you want, but the gun blew up!!! Period, dot...

Where/when/why did you get so accusatory?


To the OP: Sorry about your revolver and your troubles. Let us know how S&W makes it right.

Edmo

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TRUTH: Don't delete my posts!

I am sorry that this happened to the op, twice is stunning. I am glad that the injuries were not worse.

Before we condem all of the news models I just want to chime in with the fact that I have owned a new model 64 for seven years now and have put several thousand rounds through it practice and competition with no issues. Also I have a new model 66 with 500 rounds though it, no issues. Smith still makes excellent revolvers

That really blows

I would actually feel very safe and confident if they sent another 640. I think you pushed the odds enough that a replacement will not be a third failure, and I would expect S&W to make absolutely positive that any replacement is gone over before shipping. You will probably get the best 640 ever made.

This is not my line but I'm using it here "wow, and I mean that in as many ways possible "
Please keep us posted

My Guardian Angel has been working quad overtive this past week.Last Thursday when getting home from work a guy ran across the street against the light.I slammed on my brakes to stop from hitting him and I was rear ended by a Mercedes SUV with 3k of damage to my car.The gentleman who fixed it and 2 insurance adjusters said'With this much damage are you sure you aren't hurt?"I get my car back yesterday,teach the Monthly Pistol Safety Class,and then this happens.God is Great.I think the return is going to blow the mind of S+W because this was the replacement for the first Model 640 and its history is very well documented.LOL

how long did you own the first one and how many rounds went through it before it ''blew up"? just wondering if both gun came from the same ''lot'', are the serial #s close to each other? to have that happen to two guns by the same person is like 1 in 1 millon odds, i can see your distrusting s&w. but please don't go and buy a taurus.

I have to back Cruiser RN on this. I have also had a gun blow up in my hand and walked away with no injuries. I had a Glock 21 blow up in my hand years ago. Turnes out the plastic fantastic mixture was off causing the frame to be weak and crack. Now as far as the barrel breaking at the threads and coming off. THis could have happened due to oovertorquing of the barrel at the factory and the stress of firing and over torquing just did the barrel in. I have seen several little J frames posted on here that had the same problem.

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M.J.Hanna

I'm glad you weren't seriously injured Mike.

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Sure you did

That is unfortunate and I can understand your being upset. However from an Engineering perspective you have actually experienced 2 distinctly different modes of failure.

In the first case it was the typical cracked frame that is so common to the J frames. This type of failure is so common that IMO S&W should either go back to pinning the barrels on the J frames, start using locktite to mount the barrels, or redesign the frame to allow just a bit more "meat" under the barrel in the cut for the yoke. Basically it's a designed in weak point and using a "crush" fit to keep the barrel in place has resulted in a failure rate that I find unacceptable.

In the second case it was a failure of the barrel at the stress riser that is created by machining the mounting stub for threading it into the frame. This type of failure is actually pretty rare, rare enough that I would consider your failure to be due simply to bad luck. Basically you had the bad luck to have an inclusion in the raw steel bar that your barrel was made from that ended up in an area that created a stress riser. In this case you did "get hit by lightning" because in the past 4 years or so I have only seen 3 posts about this type of failure. BTW, one was a 686 and the other was a Ruger.

Unfortunately, Stuff Happens. This time it happened to you and it was simply bad luck. Personally, I'm NOT a fan of the J frame, IMO there have been so many postings about frames cracking that I've concluded they will all crack in time. In your position I'd use 2 consecutive failures of one model as a bit of leverage to get something like a 3 inch 686.

BTW, I also wouldn't mention that "burn" you experienced. Sorry, but IMO if it doesn't raise a blister it isn't a burn, it's just a close call. Most likely that happened due to an instant of flashback when the barrel first seperated from the frame and it's really not an injury worth mentioning. However, it is a notable event that clearly demonstrates the need for using safety glasses because something that causes only a 1/2 hour of irritation to the hand can cause a serious injury to the eye.

Im glad your OK. I wonder the chances of getting two guns with these types of anomolies. Keep us posted on what S&W does and how they handle this.

Again I ask this.

Bad ammo could override the safety margin that exists when you fire a .38 Special in a gun made for .357s. 15gr of Bullseye where a slow burning powder should have been will most likely grenade your gun.

Not common with factory ammo but faulty ammo does come out. Don

In my practice I know that "stuff happens".For it to happen twice with the same model gun to the same person and it to happen with the replacement gun the factory sent is @ the level of probability of being struck by lightning.I mentioned the fact that I had first degree skin burns not to "SUE S+W" but to say "aren't I lucky I didn't lose fingers" and "Glad I use good shooting glasses and I can still see".It saddens me that there are posters who may have legitimate questions that I am happy to answer who instead of asking them basically commit character assassination against a person they don't know.After I first read ALK8944's post my initial reaction reaction was to say"Delete S+W Forum,stop any further financial support,and stay where I have been."It has been the supportive responses of the subsequent posters that had me reconsider this reaction and for this I thank you.....Mike

Mike, Most of us who have been on here for several years and know you. Are well aware that when you post it is not **** and are super knowledgable with S&W hand guns. That is why we hate you so much....HAA HAA. Do not worry about what these new people are saying, us old guys know you are a stand-up guy and trust what you post.
Now seriously, all of us who have been here and know S&W handguns and revolvers know that they are a piece of machinery and are made of a substance that can fail these people that are posting need to realize that S&W has metalurgy and other human factors that can cause failures. This is why we all look for older models to purchase.

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M.J.Hanna

FWIW, when I first saw ALK8944's response I thought there was no excuse for it. After reading more, I am further convinced that it was beyond despicable. He owes you an apology.

Whatever one calls the events described, S&W really messed up. I would be hopping mad and need a week or two to calm down enough to even pretend to have a civil conversation with anyone there. Regardless of the metallurgy, physics, or whatever, it should not have happened.

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NHI, 10-8.

He sure does..

Mike, far be it for me to criticise you. I'm glad your OK and I'm thankful that you have posted this for us all to learn something from. I think we all will be most intrested to hear what S&W has to say about this. Again, glad your OK. Kyle

i have never had a problem with S&W, but thats me. Im a young guy with yet alot to learn...but i know when you mass produce a product their not all going to be perfect. what ALK8944 wrote was out of hand. I believe that S&W will make this right for you. Do keep us updated.

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Aim small miss small

I was going to hold off on posting again, but this thread has been troubling me since it started. The issue as I see it is not about a failure of a S&W product, but a failure of common sense and decency. A man posts a thread about a catastrophic problem he has with a pistol, not once, but twice. This man has nearly 900 posts to this forum, which in my estimation guarantees that he is not a trouble seeking/starting troll, but rather, a valued and active contributor. I saw nothing in his original post that would indicate any hidden agenda, distortion of facts, etc. His post read honestly and accurately.

Subsequent to this, another poster (Alk8944 with over 2,300 posts) makes inferences (as I read them) that the OP is somehow hiding something, or being dishonest. This sentiment is strictly based on a perception, and a perception that no one else has harbored. This is where I have a problem.

Irrespective of Alk8944's doubts as to the veracity of Mike's OP, there is no excuse for leveling unfounded allegations, inferences, accusations, etc. That type of conduct belongs on another forum, and is what separates S&W aficionados and site members from the masses of cyber savages who gutlessly take to their computers to spout off with impunity, and launch personal attacks with zero provocation. That said, I am willing to extend Alk8944 the same courtesy as Mike based on his post count, and obvious skill and knowledge re: S&Ws ... but he was off base in his comments.

We've all gotten heated with online discussions at some point, and many of us have dealt with hostilities from the opposite end of the keyboard. It's uncalled for, and unnecessary, particularly on a forum that does its best to "rise above" other forums. It's a good reminder to us, collectively as S&W forum members, and individually as civilized beings, to work on our conduct toward others ... especially online.

My dear grandmother used to say, "If you don't have something nice to say, then shaddap." I believe those words were handed down to her from the old country, in the days when personal interactions were done exclusively face-to-face. We live in a different time now, and though the same rules should apply, they often don't. It takes a concerted effort to maintain a degree of professionalism and humanness in a decidedly non-human medium.

Mike ... I hope your pistol problems are rectified to your satisfaction. I have no concern that the Factory will do right by you.

Alk ... I think a PM apology is the proper route to go.

Thank you all for listening to my Sunday sermon.

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I'm with the banned ...

This was eloquent, and worth writing for the greater good of this forum and it's dedicated members.

Special thanks to mc5aw in your post.You stated things quite eloquently and it needed to be said.As I said before when I read ALK's post ,who is a senior member,I thought it was time to go because the S+W forum has degenerated into a flame throwing contest.After seeing the unsolicited support to me by other members I reversed this course of action.To all those members I say THANK YOU.I will try to take more pictures of the barrel and get them on this thread.I will call S+W on Monday afternoon and tell you what they say.....Mike

I am not a good photographer but here it goes Webshots Entertainment, the best popular photography Webshots Entertainment, the best popular photography Webshots Entertainment, the best popular photography Webshots Entertainment, the best popular photography Webshots Entertainment, the best popular photography Webshots Entertainment, the best popular photography Webshots Entertainment, the best popular photography Webshots Entertainment, the best popular photography Webshots Entertainment, the best popular photography Webshots Entertainment, the best popular photography Mike

For starters I'm glad you're ok. All mudslinging aside this could have been much worse for you or someone standing near you regardless of how it happened. My question is if this smith had a 2 piece barrel, obviously prior the catastrophic failure. I used to work at a pistol range where I saw something similar happen on a newer 686 snubbie where we had to call a cease fire so that the owner could walk down range to pick up his barrel.

Many people say there is nothing wrong with the new smith and wessons but for my money I'll keep buying the older guns. They look better (no dirty little holes), they feel better, and in my opinion, and I believe the opinion of many people here, are much more reliable.

What good is a concealed carry gun that you are afraid to use for fear of it blowing up in your hand?

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Son of a Gun...Smith

I'm not an experienced gunsmith, but viewing those photos I'd say the cause lies in an improperly threaded/fitted barrel. We've read about some lightweight Js having cracked frames due to over-torque; I think something similar occurred with this 640, as well as Mike's previous one. A jammed round would more likely blow the barrel "up and out" rather than "out". The non-threaded part of this barrel looks pristine ... it's the threaded section that suffered the damage.

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I'm with the banned ...

Well said Mc5aw.
Friends don't let friends buy new Smith & Wesson's they send them the link for gunbroker to troll for the older ones that were made when a company and people took pride in what they made.