I screwed up and tried to clean the burn rings off the face of the titanium cylinder on my near new 340PD. Yes I had read all the warnings but could not stand seeing the burn rings. All my other revolvers are stainless and immaculate. I did remove the protective coating. I contacted S&W telling them what I did and asked if I should replace the cylinder immediately or keep an eye on it for erosion. They suggested I just keep an eye and watch for erosion. I am fine with that, they also told me it would be @ 150 dollars for a replacement stainless cylinder installed if I wanted to go that way. I am using mostly .357 for practice and above the minimum 120 grain.

Seeing as I am probably looking at buying a new cylinder I decided to polish the rest of the cylinder to see how it looked. I still have a bit of polishing to get some small scratches out of it and am liking the contrast of the shiny cylinder and black frame.

Any comments or suggestions are welcome.

Jim



This is how it looked from the factory (photo borrowed from Buds).

I think that it looks just perfect!

I like it!

Jim, I would say you might as well ship that thing off and get it over with. But if you do shoot it, I would be interested to learn how many rounds you were able to fire before the cylinder was no longer fit to use. Keep us posted if you go that route.

I would buy a new cylinder and install it yourself. You will spend a fortune on shipping!

Yet another chapter in that thrilling saga titled "If it ain't broke, fix it till it is."

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Forum consigliere

I have already shot @ 25 rounds of .357 reloads (mine and mild, 158 grain) thru it with only the face of the cylinder polished. Cleaning was easy with no erosion evident. It has not been shot with the complete cylinder polished. I can not not see what difference that would make.

I am a bit baffled with why the titanium cylinder will erode if one is using the higher weight bullets? From what I have seen and read, all the erosion issues came from using 120 grain bullets or less.

We are leaving on a road trip for 4 months and I can not ship it back to S&W because it has to be shipped back to the same shipping address it came from. I will shoot it until it I see erosion issues. It is my every day carry, so I look at it a lot.

As a side note I also have a 640-3 in stainless with a cylinder that has the exact same length (diameter was a bit bigger but it still locked nicely) as the titanium cylinder on the 340. I did swap cylinders and the 640 cylinder did fit on the 340. I am not knowledgeable enough to know if that would work and would take it to a gunsmith to verify fit. It sure did look like a good fit and looked good also.

Jim

Who would I buy a new cylinder from? Will S&W sell me one to install myself?

Jim

There is a lot of truth to that!

Yes they will. There are no restrictions on that cylinder.

Thanks for that info.

JIM

Titanium reacts readily with oxygen to form titanium oxide. I'm not sure what it looks like, but it is "self-inhibiting". That is, once the corrosion covers the surface there is no further corroding. So if you don't keep polishing off the surface it should last as long as the coated version. But perhaps it will be very ugly--I don't know.

The original cylinder is deeply anodized to form a thick protective layer. Although titanium oxides naturally, the layer is too thin to provide protection against the hot gas of combustion. Eventually even the factory coating will be eroded. When that happens, erosion progresses rapidly, and can sometimes be seen to throw sparks.

It takes a lot of scrubbing to remove burn marks from stainless too. If you remove the protective layer of oxidation left on stainless by chemical passivation, you may increase the tendency to form burn marks, or lead to rust.

Unless you want it to look purdy for sale or display, leave the burn marks and concentrate on removing lead and carbon deposits, which can impede operation.

Are you sure that this is an anodized finish. I am under the impression that only aluminum can be anodized.

I was under the impression that the cylinder was a PVD finish. (Physical Vapor Deposition).

Polishing the cylinder face is one thing and will probably result in erosion over time. But I can't see any reason why polishing the exterior would hurt it. My wedding band is titanium, I've been wearing it for 7+ years and it is nearly as shiny as it was the day I put it on. I always figured the exterior matte finish was done for looks, not functionality. Personally, I like the way your polished cylinder looks.

While I was polishing the cylinder, it did not appear to be anodized. It almost looked like a mechanical etching. Very uniform light abrasions.

Jim

I've always wondered why the U.S. Air Force can use titanium on many of their aircraft if it's so "fragile" and susceptible to burning. I actually thought the heat shields just aft of the jet nozzles on the F-4 Phantom were made of titanium.... Maybe I was wrong.

I had my Ti cylinder coated with Diamond Kote. I don't worry about cleaning it any more as the power wipes off with an oiled rag.

I think this was meant to keep bullets from pulling loose with recoil due to the light gun weight, not a material strength or finish issue.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I thought that I had also read the the lighter bullets are also shorter allowing more flame cutting which caused erosion vs a longer bullet keeping the flame cutting to a minimum.

Probably not. Bullet pull is worse with heavier bullets, not lighter ones. It's erosion that seems to be worse with lighter bullets. I'm not sure whether it's because of the powders used and velocity attained, or whether it it has to do with the length of the bullet and resulting reduced sealing of the cylinder-barrel gap when it matters. I'm sure that someone who actually knows will be along shortly to ascertain or even clarify the correct answer.

P.S. Looks like jimandsue60 types faster and writes better than I do.

Great minds think alike !!

Jim

Did you get a clear coat or one of the assorted colors they offer?

I would like to see some photos of it before and after if possible!!

Thanks

It is possible that Aircraft Ti is a different composition than these cylinders. My Dad was an aircraft mechanic. I needed some aluminum for a project that I was doing and asked him if he could get me a small piece and he did. I tried to drill it and I tried to saw it and quickly found out that the reason aircraft stay together is that this is not your normal aluminum. You can dull a cheap drill bit or saw blade. It really takes a carbide drill bit to drill it with any ease. Normal bits will dull quicklyl Also, I left that piece of aluminum out in the weather for years and it would get dirty, but did not corrode, at least to the eye. So, perhaps, Ti in aircraft grade is different too.

Most aircraft alloy titanium (used for structural purposes) is Ti-6AL-4V, which is a titanium-aluminum-vanadium alloy It is very susceptable to sufate and halogen -induced corrosion, but is very heat resistant and stable in the atmosphere. There are several other titanium alloys used in aircraft, primarily in the jet engine components. Nickel superalloys (Nickel-iron-tungsten-ruthenium) are used in the turbine blades and vanes because they have better high temperature creep and strength, the titanium alloys are used in the compressor stages and the fan disks.

I have never understood the fascination with titanium for firearms. While it is stiffer and lighter than steel for a given strength, the weight savings is not that great, it is subject to high-velocity gas erosion, and it costs a lot more than steel.

And yes, titanium can be anodized; the process is similar to that used on aluminum, but it is much more critical as far as chemical controls, cleanliness and current quality are concerned. Instead of sulfuric acid anodizing as is used on aluminum, phosphoric acid solutions and trisodium phosphate baths are used. The colors formed when titanium is anodized are a function of the voltage and current density used.

E=mc²

So basically if their is a coating on titanium, leave it alone. Sorry but I'm just a tad slow! LOL!

James