J-Frame Not Holding Single-Action Cocking

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fxdrider

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I bought a S&W J-frame revolver (Model 637 Airweight) for my wife 2 months ago. Took it to the range for the 1st time yesterday, and after she fired one cylinder of ammo through it (all single-action), the gun would no longer hold the hammer back for single-action firing. It would still fire double action, but to do so required holding the trigger all the way back for a moment - pressing it hard - and then it would finally release. It feels like the timing got messed up somehow. The ammo used was Hornady Custom Ammunition 38 Special 125 Grain XTP Jacketed Hollow Point, which is not Plus P ammo - so I don't think it gave the gun an undue beating.

Any ideas before I call S&W and ask for warranty work? Needless to say, she's very disappointed. She wanted this gun to use for concealed carry/self defense, and chose to pay the extra money for the Smith figuring it would be reliable. Conversely, her 4 year old Taurus Model 85 has never given her a problem even after firing hundreds of rounds.

Thanks.
 
This one needs to go back to the factory. No new gun should behave like that.

Even if the problem is something as simple as milling debris left inside the frame that's interfering with the action, there's a chance a more serious problem needs to be fixed -- hammer, trigger, DA sear, even broken or bent hammer or trigger studs. You paid for a new gun and ought to have one. Don't try to fix it yourself.

And welcome to the forum. Sorry your first post here had to involve a problem rather than a satisfaction. Please post back once you have a resolution to this issue. We want to know what happened.
 
DCWilson said:
This one needs to go back to the factory. No new gun should behave like that.

Even if the problem is something as simple as milling debris left inside the frame that's interfering with the action, there's a chance a more serious problem needs to be fixed -- hammer, trigger, DA sear, even broken or bent hammer or trigger studs. You paid for a new gun and ought to have one. Don't try to fix it yourself.

And welcome to the forum. Sorry your first post here had to involve a problem rather than a satisfaction. Please post back once you have a resolution to this issue. We want to know what happened.
Click to expand...

That's pretty much my thoughts. I'll call them this afternoon and get set up for return shipping. I'll post when I know something more. Thanks for the replies.

The screwy thing is, in the 2 months we've had the gun she's dry-fired it (as have I) several times and not even a hint of a problem. I'm glad we found it BEFORE she started carrying it and staking her life on it. :cool:
 
That is not an unusual problem for our revolvers. It's closely related to "push-off", in which the hammer, when cocked, will push off and move forward. I believe, (help me out here, you gunsmith guys,) that it is simply a lack of complete sear/hammer engagement. This can happen when someone not thoroughly experienced in S&W actions attempts an action job on one, although I have a 29-2 that came that way from the factory.
You should start by returning the gun to S&W and they will certainly make it right. Once it's back and you've shot it a bit, you might want to have one of the really good gunsmiths give it a tuning.
But, for now, get the piece working properly. It would not be good to try to explain to a jury why your roscoe shot some troll when it really wasn't your intent to do so.
 
Well, I'm going to muddy the waters a bit. Yesterday, before I had a chance to call S&W, I was manipulating the hammer, I noticed that if I pushed on it harder than you should have to while thumb-cocking it, the sear would catch and hold it in the cocked position. It almost felt like it had a bit of creep to it as it clicked in place. Also, it would take a good deal of trigger pressure to get it to release. Like I was mashing the trigger into the frame. If it were a 1911, I would have suspected a mis-adjusted overtravel screw.

One thing I failed to mention in my O.P., I had installed a lighter hammer spring (8 lbs.) and a lighter trigger return spring (14 lbs.) in an effort to make it easier for my wife to work the action in double-action mode. Knowing I'd probably have to return the gun to S&W with its stock springs, I replaced them in the gun and lo-an-behold, the gun starts working AS DESIGNED!

Now I'm baffled. (!?!?) :confused:

I think we're going to make a few range trips with it to see how it behaves. If it keeps functioning properly with the original springs, she may just have to get used to a stiffer trigger.
 
Wow. You didn't tell us the gun had been opened up. Highly likely you didn't get the gun put back together correctly.

Regarding the springs; I don't recommend changing the rebound spring. I do often change the main spring though.

I would take the gun to the range and put a few hundred through it and, if all is well, call it good.
 
Okay, I'm back. Took it to the range several times and long story short: Still a problem.

So, I call S&W this morning to get a return authorization, and guess what: They're CLOSED until August 13, except for Law Enforcement Emergencies or Urgent Customer Concerns.

I'm not sure if they'd consider this an urgent customer concern or not, but I do. I'm on hold now - we'll see.
 
My man, I hate to say it, but... changing springs on a J-frame is something I long ago learned not to do. Even more so than with larger guns, there's a delicate balance between the springs and the working parts; lighten springs, and things inevitably, eventually, go out of whack. In short -- shoulda left well-enough alone.

Smoothing of all action friction points, proper lubing, and hand-strength exercises are the way to go.
 
Pisgah said:
My man, I hate to say it, but... changing springs on a J-frame is something I long ago learned not to do. Even more so than with larger guns, there's a delicate balance between the springs and the working parts; lighten springs, and things inevitably, eventually, go out of whack. In short -- shoulda left well-enough alone.

Smoothing of all action friction points, proper lubing, and hand-strength exercises are the way to go.
Click to expand...

I have to respectfully disagree with this as a blanket statement. It depends on the purpose for the gun, the proficiency of the gunsmith, and the original springs in the gun. No question that the first phase should be smoothing and lubrication though.
 
I've got the original springs back in it, and it is back together the way it came, and it's still malfunctioning. What it's doing now is different - I'll put a cylinder through it - no problem. Reload, get two more shots off and on the 3rd shot, the trigger moves and rotates the cylinder, but does not cock and release the hammer. Opening and closing the cylinder then seems to reset it, though not always. It seems like the shock of firing it a few times knocks something out of whack. It's not something I'd want to depend on to save my life. She's very disappointed at this point. She's always heard what quality products Smith & Wesson's were and wanted to have the best to carry. Now she's got her Taurus, which has never given her a problem - even with its lightened springs, back in her holster. I feel bad, and I'm not trying to flame or anything. Just disappointed.

By the way, I've given up holding for customer service. I guess I'll have to wait til they come back from vacation and re-open.

Thanks for listening.
 
not holding single action

Any time you alter the the gun from the original state, the warranty is void. Also, there is a liability issue if you had to use the gun for self defense and that could be a serious problem if the matter results in a court case. The rebound spring is designed to rebound the trigger after the sear releases the hammer. The amount of coils are set from the manufacturer. Frequently, gun owners will cut some of the coils for a reduced trigger pull but in time will result in FTF. Any reputable gunsmith will not take the liability of cutting the coils because of that reason. If you were using the gun for target practice then that is fine. But if you use the gun for self defense or duty carry, bad move and it can bite you.

Nick
 
How did it function before it was tampered with?For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.If it was fine before the modification then you can't blame S&W or the gun.For the average ccw these guns are probably fine.If they function out of the box leave them alone unless you are modifying for competition.If you are unsure of what you are doing you take a perfectly reliable functioning revolver and turn it into an unreliable non functioning club.As Clint said "A man's got to know his limitations".By the way I do not mean to offend you.I hope you get your problem resolved.
 
fxdrider said:
I bought a S&W J-frame revolver (Model 637 Airweight) for my wife 2 months ago. Took it to the range for the 1st time yesterday, and after she fired one cylinder of ammo through it (all single-action), the gun would no longer hold the hammer back for single-action firing. It would still fire double action, but to do so required holding the trigger all the way back for a moment - pressing it hard - and then it would finally release. It feels like the timing got messed up somehow. The ammo used was Hornady Custom Ammunition 38 Special 125 Grain XTP Jacketed Hollow Point, which is not Plus P ammo - so I don't think it gave the gun an undue beating.

Any ideas before I call S&W and ask for warranty work? Needless to say, she's very disappointed. She wanted this gun to use for concealed carry/self defense, and chose to pay the extra money for the Smith figuring it would be reliable. Conversely, her 4 year old Taurus Model 85 has never given her a problem even after firing hundreds of rounds.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Call S&W and they will email you a shipping label (postage) and they will fix it and ship it back FEDEX at no charge.
 
Grant Cunningham said in his book, that when altering a revolver, you can have any two of three things, reliability, lighter trgger pull, or faster trigger reset. Never all three.
 
Just had something similar happen to me with a 686 i brought it to my gunsmith and found that the strain screw for the mainspring lossened up.
Revolver was brand new with 100 rounds just put through it two days after I purchased.
 
Replacing the rebound and main spring should not cause the problem that you described. I have used reduced tension springs in my S&W revolvers for many years and not had any problems. Was there any stoning/polishing done inside when the springs were installed? I always do some polishing inside when replacing the springs, but stay away from the sear unless really necessary. A bad angle on the sear and it will fall on single action.
 
I will replace a return spring on a J Frame, but never lighter than a 14 lb, but I never replace a main spring. I have never had a reliability problem. Light stoning the return slide and a couple other places with good cleaning and light lube and they run good.
 
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