Well, I've seen so much about the Model 16/K-32 that for years I have "just had to have one." I bought one of the 16-4s when they came out (in the 6" version) but for embarrassing reasons let it get away from me. Recently I decided, thanks to many postings on this board that the time was right for me to build the gun S&W should have built but didn't, the Model 616. To make this possible I got a Model 617 barrel and cylinder to have reworked to make my 32 caliber components.

I found and bought a reasonably priced Model 67 that I planned on using as my foundation, but it has a narrow rib and a pair of bevels on the front of the frame, so it doesn't match up to the 617 barrel. Therefore, I dragged out my old Model 66 (no dash) and took it along with the Model 617 cylinder to a well-known gunsmith in Ohio on Tuesday. The 4" Model 617 barrel will leave here today for reboring and then be forwarded from there to the 'smith. Now comes the hardest part... the waiting!

Meanwhile, I still haven't seen just the right holster for a 4" K-frame with full underlug. Still looking. I did find out that the 4" Model 67 I bought has a sweet trigger and was otherwise pretty nice except for ratty grips and a broken rear sight blade. The Ohio Gun Collectors' Show gave me the opportunity to replace both of those at pretty reasonable prices, so now I have a very nice Model 67 that looks like it will be a keeper. It's kinda like a stainless K-38 Combat Masterpiece. You can never have too many Smiths, I guess.

Stay tuned for the progress report. This should be a fun project.

Froggie

PS I guess I shoulda' mentioned that I decided to go whole hog on the 32 cal and have it chambered to 327 Fed Mag. This way I can shoot all of the regular 32 cal pistol rounds from 32 ACP to 327 FM as the mood strikes me. That way I'll have maximum flexibility for my investment.

You are correct, S&W likely would have had a big hit had they chosen to offer something similar, I'm sorry that the M-67 was not quite suited but the M-66 will surely do your project proud. Since you did not say I suppose you are going to Have it chambered for the .327 Magnum caliber to take advantage of the versatility? Am looking forward to seeing the finished product and the range report.


Rereading you post you did say, sorry I missed it the first time! I do like your project!!!

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Sam
S&WHF 333 S&WCA 2198

As a big .32 caliber fan, I can't wait to see the results.

From what I have read, the idea is not totally original with me. Have any readers of this forum already done what I am in the process of doing? I have seen references to several folks building blued pseudo K-32s of one sort or another, but I haven't been able to find a firm reference to anyone building a stainless "K-32" with underlug barrel and 327 Fed Mag chambering. Am I about to "... boldly go where no man has gone before" or can somebody tell me about how they have done the same thing (successfully or unsuccessfully?)

Froggie

In American Handgunner (Special Addition 2009) there is an article by John Taffin " 327 Federal Magnum-Hamilton Bowen Style" that discusses the same conversion you are having done. A link to download the article http://www.bowenclassicarms.com/news...ral_Magnum.pdf

Good luck on your 616; I have a "psuedo K-32" in 327 and love it.

this sounds really cool. i cant wait to see it.....I would also like to know the breakdown of the cost of this project. I may tackle this

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Kris
OGCA, NRA LM

Mine is blue because I had an 8-3/8" Model 16-4 barrel to work with. I had Mr. Bowen put mine together on a pre-Model 15 5-screw frame and a Model 17 cylinder (so the case heads would be recessed like all good magnum cartridges are supposed to be!).

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Chris
SWCA #2243 SWHF #292

If you are going to go stainless, the only model that will work is the Model 66... and you will have to decide which mark number etc. you want to use. I had a 66 no dash that has been through a lot since I bought it used over 20 years ago and which I finally decided deserved to be part of this grand experiment.

The Model 617 barrels are still available new from various vendors for something on the order of $150-175. Some shopping around may get you a better deal there. I like the 4" because I had a 6" Model 16-4 and it was a little nose heavy with the full underlug. The cylinder is the sticking point, as 617s come in both 6 shot and 10 shot variations and only the former will work here. I got lucky and found one in stock @ GPC for right at $100. Their website showed them out of stock at last check, but it's always worth a look. Otherwise, just keep looking until you find one or contact Hamilton Bowen for one of his custom made cylinders for a couple of hundred bucks.

The reboring of the barrel is being done at Clearwater Reboring in Washington and comes to about $150 plus shipping, and I am having Andy Horvath do the rest of the work on mine. Since he gave me a range of prices on the work depending on what additional fitting was needed, I don't have a solid price on that yet to quote. Time quoted on the barrel is 8-10 weeks and the whole project at 4-5 months.

The article cited by samwood (thanks for that, by the way!) has "my" gun on the title page and a pretty thorough description of just what I have ordered, so now I am much more confident it will work.

All for now... stay tuned for more exciting developments.

Froggie

Way. Beyond. Cool.

Can't wait to see the end result. As another .32 addict I am completely engaged by what you are doing.

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David Wilson

Add me to the addict list too. Have picked up a nice model 66 for the base gun. Now the quest for barrel & cylinder begins. I'm thinking maybe a 5 incher. That would certainly be different.

If David is in favor of it, I know I'm on the right track!

CL66, I think you will find that the 6" barrel for the Model 617 can be bobbed off to whatever length you want then have the front sight remounted to the rib or perhaps a different sight added. I've never had the fascination with 5" K-frame guns, although I like them OK for the N-frames. YMMV, though, and if you are paying to get a gun you want, you should get exactly what you want... that's why you are building custom instead of taking an off-the-shelf model.

Froggie

PS Still looking for any tried and tested 327 FM reloading data using heavy (120-125 gr) cast bullets. Anybody??

Guys, this has me pumped up. I would love to have a 5" barrel smith and wesson in 327 federal. I would like it to be fairly lightweight to pack around and hunt with. I am trying to figure out what my best route would be to proceed. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

What an awesome idea. I can't wait to see the finished project and may have to have this done too!

While I have "looked with favor" on many custom revolvers, better examples of some fine factory revolvers always catch my eyes and my pocketbook. I am little interested in "bling" but want accuracy and "practical" calibers. In the past, I did a lot of hunting and nearly always had a revolver with me even if it was not the primary tool.

Frankly, I can't see paying a couple or three thousand dollars for a piece that is just a little bit better than standard. I treasure both of my S&W 624's (bought when they first came out) and you can name dozens of your favorite factory revolvers that are "just right" as they came. THOSE are the ones that have captured my fancy.

On the other hand, Green Frog's new custom has MUCH to commend it. If I didn't already have several nice .32 H&R magnums, I would have to jump on the band wagon. This is a practical AND desirable custom in most every way. I'm hoping that the Frog will allow me to shoot it when he brings it by for an admiration party...

Dale53

Dale53,

Maybe I should plan on going up to LaGrange in person to pick up my finished "616" then circle by Casa 53 so I can wring it out @ the BCSC range. I should have a few hundred assorted rounds of ammo loaded for it by then since I've ordered that 1000 rounds of StarLine brass and scored a couple more .313" diam. moulds. Maybe I'll even let you shoot it too, if you ask real nice and bribe me with grilled food!

Froggie

GF, I gave my 17-2 to Andy on Feb 5th to make into a 32 long with a 5" bbl. It will have a Weigand interchangeable front sight base on it. The bbl is stuck in Washington state with 2 Colt bbl's that Andy is waiting for. Been 6 mos so far. I also have a set of Keith Brown exhibition English walnut grips with the Roper style checkering waiting for it to come home. Its my bucket list gun, always wanted a custom gun. A K-32 shooter is over 2 grand but still a good value. Good luck on the stainless .32, Larry

Now my mind is thinking is it possible to do a 617 barrel and cylinder swap on a 66 and have a .22 66 ? That would be my ideal of the prefect practice for my other 66's. Thanks tbird

I've never been a fan of the .32s, as I've always seen them as a bit useless comapred to what I can load a .38/.357 to do.

With that said, I have the American Handgunner with the article detailing the information on the Bowen Model 66 shown near the top of this thread. Ever since I saw that, I've had a mild interest. I can't help but think that fine little custom 66 with a .32 Keith bullet from the Cast Boolits group buy would be a huge load of fun, and maybe something truly terrific for small game.

I have some 357's also but the 32 is an old accurate classic round that is fun to shoot. Its cheap to reload also. Last Sat I bought 2000 32 bullets from my LGS. Can't wait, it should be done soon. I called Clearwater reboring and they do work for Andy. They said my bbl was shipped back to Ohio. Larry

This will only work if you have some 22 centerfire ammo. Why bother? Isn't a 617 a 22 LR version of the 66 already? About the only difference I see is the full underlug barrel on the 617, but with your proposal, you would still have that.

Froggie

Careful, it sounds like you're beginning to to weaken. It really would be interesting to see what would happen if S&W released a run of 616s to see how many folks would have sufficient "mild interest" to lay down hard earned buckage to actually purchase one. I fear this number will ever lie fallow and that examples of it will continue to be from the custom side only.

Froggie

That's good news, Jebus5745. When I talked to Jim before sending my barrel he said he had gotten behind, but was hoping to get caught up by mid-August, so maybe my barrel is approaching the lathe! I went on and left the rest of the project with Andy so he could recut the chambers and fit the cylinder to the Model 66 if he got a break while waiting. I know good work takes time, but I am really psyched to get this project in hand.

Froggie

I know the feeling, kind of like waiting for Christmas when you were a kid...

Froggie, he said he got you're bbl. Nice guy to talk to. Can't believe Andy is so laid back for such a famous person. One of the good old boys. Its been too long of a wait for my gun, almost 6 1/2 mos. Larry

Caught the ".32 bug" a long time ago, and am waiting with great anticipation on your experiment! And I've been waiting to see the .327 in a proper field revolver too! Dale

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"Long live the S&W 3rd. Gen.!"

Badkarma1, I agree about the 327 as a proper field revolver. At this point I'm wondering whether I can find a fairly early Model 686 in good shape so I can have a slightly heavier 357 as a next step up in power when needed. Then a 624 or 629 for the next step and then...

Froggie

If S&W made a 616 I would break my arm getting my wallet out!!!! Plus I would end up buying a dozen of them, what a Christmas present to my kids and grandkids!!

You know its weird how we come up with all these non standard guns. When I took my gun to Andy he showed me a finished Ruger. It was a GP-100 redone in 41 cal. It had a Python bbl fitted to it. He scalloped the frame to match the Colt bbl. It was neat looking. Andy said he likes to convert .22's to .32. Larry

Jebus35745, I envy you the ability to drop by and see Andy. I only had a few minutes with him when I made my "pilgrimage" as I had another 6 or 7 hour drive back to VA after our visit. He impressed me in person as someone I would really like to hang out with and learn from. I am feeling more and more like I made the right choice when I picked him for my dream project. I know he doesn't do the Internet Thing, so when you are there, if he wants to get word to me quickly, please feel free to PM any time. Give him my best!

Froggie

Green frog, duh I had a total brain fade didnt think about the difference between rim fire and center fire hammer and firing pin hole. Was thinking I had a couple of rough former pd guns with round butt I could use since I haven't seen a 617 around here for years oh well keep looking. Thanks tbird

Froggie, Bowen sounded good but Andy was close. I heard of him in magazines through the years from some of the big gun scribes. The prez at the gun club that I hold the NE Ohio S&W group at grew up with Andy. The NE Ohio bunch has Keith Brown And I've been trying to get Andy to attend also. We talked for abt 1/2 hour. I'd love to watch him work on my gun. I'll try to remember to ask abt you're gun when there. He is 1/2 hour from me. I know it would be a drive to NE Ohio but you are welcome to come Oct 6th. Look in the public lounge for my post on the bunch. Larry

Where did you send the 617 barrel to get rebored?

As I said in my full description of the project, I sent the barrel to Clearwater Reboring in Washington State. They have a great reputation and do barrels for many of the well known custom 'smiths. In fact, when I discussed the project with Andy he said that's what he would do with it... I just went on and sent it myself so I could have the personal contact with Jim Dubell who will probably be the actual one doing that work there.

Froggie

PS Website = http://deltagunshop.com/

Froggie, did you ask Jim abt rate of twist? Andy was suppose to tell him I was shooting 98 & 100 gr bullets. I got the standard rate what ever it was. Larry

Larry,

It appears that 1 in 10 is about standard for these custom rebores, and since I am going to probably shoot bullets in the 100 to 115 or even 125 grain bullets, that looks about right to me. To be honest, I was a little overwhelmed with that aspect of the project, so I just went along with what everyone else seemed to be doing.

Froggie

the 617 bbl and cyl. mentioned earlier would make a nice project for a stainless jet. (653). that is what i always wanted. the 32 project sounds neat too. the muzzle blast with hot loads is going to be fierce in a 4in bbl.

I wanted to get an update on the project!!

UPDATE: I've been in contact with Jim and he told me he had been having problems with some of his machinery. The good news is that he thinks it is fixed and was testing it yesterday. He said he was hoping my barrel would be cut this weekend. I'm hoping Andy has had the time and inclination to get the rebore of the cylinder done while he was waiting, so maybe I'm on the home stretch of "Project 616!" In the meanwhile, I have accumulated over 1200 rounds of brass, 5 or 6 bullet moulds, loading dies, etc, etc. I'm going to be ready (and then some) when Project 616 gets home to me!

I see a trip to Ohio and Casa McGee in my future for some serious load development and shooting! Get ready, Dale53!

Froggie

PS I'm still looking for a classy River-type holster for a 4" K-frame with full underlug barrel.

Correction to my previous response to this; when Jim contacted me he said that most of the custom 'smiths were using 1 in 18 twist with a few specifying 1 in 16 if they wanted to shoot a heavier bullet. I went on and ordered the faster twist since I have a couple of heavier (115 and 125 grain) bullet moulds. I don't think it will be too fast for the 95 grain WC and SWC bullets I have for the S&W Long cartridges I also plan to shoot out of it. The anticipation continues!

Froggie

PS I'll be working on that 125 grain round... remembering the old high performance 125 grain loads for 357 Magnum, I hope I can get there with a 327 and skip over the problems that the 357 gave! Anybody know how to calculate Ballistic Coefficient and Sectional Density?

How much do the full lug barrels lack matching the non magnum frames? Can they be machined or polished to match?

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dd884
JMHO-YMMV

The width of the top rib is the problem... it's about 1/8" too wide on each side. You would have to mill the whole rib by that amount and then re-profile the top of the curve of the barrel to blend it back in. Yes, it could be done, but the cost would probably be prohibitive. I also thought about using a 6" barrel and milling off the underlug to make a standard profile barrel. Don't even ask how much work and expen$e that would entail! It's taking me a lot longer than planned just to get the barrel rebored. All that extra machine work, besides the ¢o$t, would probably end up taking a very long time, and I'm too old to wait for it!

Froggie

I had much fun with my .32 H&R conversion to .327 mag and it is a fine shooter----Just what you would have thought S&W would have done for the .327 instead of a snubby.
Shame on you S&W.
Blessings

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TEXAS, by GOD

Hey Froggie, I keep thinking abt your gun. Looks like it will be soon. Hope you did some casting and loading. Be ready to shoot the gun when you pick it up. You are at the 5 month stage and counting. Did you see the pics of the targets I shot with mine? I used a B-square mount with a red dot for precise aiming at 50 ft. It all came together when it shot good. I put the gold bead front site from my 627PC in the .32. I'm a happy camper, Larry

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Sorry Larry, but that just makes me feel more impatient. I hope Andy has been/will be working on my cylinder and fitting while he is waiting for the barrel. If the clock starts over after the barrel gets there, I may die of old age waiting!

Regardless, I can stir up some good will and congratulate you on how well your 32 is shooting. It reminds me once again that I did really have a good idea! Thanks for that.

Froggie

PS What round were you shooting on those targets?

This seems a lot harder than my last conversion.

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dd884
JMHO-YMMV

@ddiexie884, what a nice conversion! I just read your old tread from 2009 about this revolver. As a 696 lover, I would sure love to have that 41 along with it!

The 616 project from Green Fog sounds super too, I hope he succeeds. Good luck!

I used 2 reloads. A 98gr round nose and some HBWC's. Had some recent made Rem's on the one target but only had 10 of them. Been trying to buy any reasonably priced 32 bullets I can find. Time will tell waiting on Andy, hope you get it before X-mas. Actually mine took a year, needed to find a reasonably priced host gun to use. Larry

Hey Froggie, I called Andy the other day. He went to school with a friend from a local club. Sadly, the club member passed away last Thurs. afternoon and I wanted to make sure Andy had the news abt Jim. I asked him abt you're gun and he said the bbl never came back from Clearwater. Hope Andy wasn't sure what gun I was talking abt and has you're bbl. Just an update, figured if I had him on the phone I'd ask abt the 616. Larry

Hey Froggie, any word from Andy? I'm in your same boat, I dropped off my grandfathers 10-5 to get reworked back in late May. I called him in August and he was still working on it, I didn't want to seem like I was hounding him. Maybe I'll give him a ring in the morning. Sure would make a great Christmas present.

FYI I spoke with Andy just before Christmas. He thought a little while longer, and he didn't disagree when I mentioned spring. So that will put him around 11-12 months, although I'm sure he doesn't necessarily do them in order. I hope this helps.