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01-29-2014, 03:39 PM
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460 S&W: Velocity / Barrel Length
I have seen the question poised on several occasions.
Most of us know that even the same barrel length revolvers will deliver a small difference because of a variety of factors.
I decided to chrono each barrel length under the same conditions earlier this month.
A few notes:
• The 8.375” gun has in excess of 10000 round down the tube buy myself and the previous owner, whom said he shot about 6000 Colt, 1000 Casull, and only a few boxes of Hornady 200 grain. I have shoot 3000 rounds of a variety of 460 rounds from 200 to 300 grain.
• The 10.5” gun Has about 6000 rounds of 460 S&W most of which are equivalent to Hornady factory 200 loads.
• The rest of the guns have less than 3000 rounds each.
• The 2.75” and 3” guns have low round count less than 1000 each.
Data collected with Kurzzeit chronograph
Factory Hornady 200 FTX ammo, all from the same lot, was used.
The 300grain XTP MAG under 38.2grains of H110 with a OAL of 2.195”
200 Grain Hornady FTX DATA
Barrel Length AVG of 5 shoots
2.75" 1897fps
3.5" 2033fps
4" 2059fps
6.5" 2165fps
7.5" 2240fps
8.375" 2180fps
10.5" 2203fps
12" 2370fps
14" 2313fps
14" c 2318fps
Ruger #1- 22" 2924fps
300 Grain , 38.2 H110, OAL 2.195
Barrel Length AVG of 5 shoots
2.75" not tested
3.5" not tested
4" 1409fps
6.5" 1495fps
7.5" 1549fps
8.375" 1502fps
10.5" 1536fps
12" 1542fps
14" 1528fps
14" c 1559fps
Ruger #1-22" 2161fps
Good Luck and be safe
Last edited by ruggyh; 01-29-2014 at 07:23 PM.
Reason: information added
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460SandW, AceCarnivorous, Badland, bcc629, Beju, BLUEDOT37, bpthomsen, Bwax, CoronaGold111, DT75, fishwishin, Kilibreaux, Mark8, Marloe, Protocall_Design, RIDE-RED 350r, Road_Clam, sparkyvega, USBP SW, vipermd, zirrow, __steve__ |
01-29-2014, 03:44 PM
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Wow,6000 rounds of 460! Be on the lookout for a good carpal tunnel surgeon,You will probably need him in the future  All kidding aside,Thanks for taking the time to do this test.
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01-29-2014, 04:08 PM
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Actually I have shoot in excessive of 15000 rounds in the last 3 years, but who counting.
This is a reloaders hand gun. Getting good means lots of practice.
Typically I shoot at 50 and 100 yards with scoped guns and 25 yards with open sights. Wish I had better access to 200 yard range.
Longest shoot on game to date is 140 yards.
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01-29-2014, 05:11 PM
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Really interesting Ruggy... I've been waiting on this!
Interesting to see velocity increases / decreases
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01-29-2014, 05:30 PM
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I think the relationship is pretty linear when throats and cylinder gap is the same.
I did shoot my other 8.375" and it is about 50fps fast but I took the data on a different day. The temperature was about 10 degrees warmer out on that day.
The 3.5" I got from you shoots very nice. Put about 500 rounds through her.
Just when I though I was done buying 460's, Smith announces a new model. I really like uncomped guns. Now to get one when they actually become available.
Last edited by ruggyh; 01-29-2014 at 07:02 PM.
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01-29-2014, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruggyh
I think the relationship is pretty linear when throats and cylinder gap is the same.
I did shoot my other 8.375" and it is about 50fps fast but I took the data on a different day. The temperature was about 10 degrees warmer out on that day.
The 3.5" I got from you shoots very nice. Put about 500 rounds through her.
Just when I though my I was done buying 460's, Smith announces a new model. I really like uncomped guns. Now to get one when they actually become available.
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OK, how did I miss that??? Care to elaborate?
Thanks for taking the time to post those chrony results!
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01-29-2014, 07:01 PM
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Announced at the shot show
Check former discussion and picture here
New PC 460 snubby
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01-29-2014, 07:05 PM
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Thanks for that...
Apparently I did in fact see that thread, I "liked" the initial post..
But it has been a busy couple of weeks and I clean forgot... Still don't remember seeing it now! LOL!
They really are teasing those dirty rats in Springfield..The 66 comes back, the new m69...and then there's THAT! LOL! I have been enamored with that m69 lately and it's not going away... Guess you probably know how that's going to end up...
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01-29-2014, 07:06 PM
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01-29-2014, 07:16 PM
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For some reason, this is a little hard to find on their page but I found a link: Product: Model 460XVR?
I love this gun, but I'm not sure about the barrel length. There must be a market for it though.
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01-29-2014, 07:20 PM
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That certainly IS a nifty lil' snubby! 
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01-29-2014, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RIDE-RED 350r
That certainly IS a nifty lil' snubby! |
D&L Hunting was advertising that they got one in this week.
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01-30-2014, 01:59 AM
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ruggy--You just gotta try IHMS silhouettes..We shoot steel cutouts of chicken @ 50m, pig @ 100m, turkey @150m, ram @ 200m. 40 shots, 10 rds at each target.. 5 rds per bank with a 2 minute time limit.. Nothing like watching those steel guys flip..l shoot in 'production revolver-standing' class.. lts the greatest FUN.. l shoot either a Mod 27-2 or 29.. l bet that 460 of yours would REALLY make those steel silhs jump.
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01-31-2014, 04:28 PM
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02-02-2014, 11:03 AM
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You know, your handloads with the 300gr XTP MAG are just .2 gr above starting charge listed in Hodgdons tables. C.O.L. is longer than Hodgdons too.
I would be curious to see how those 300 grainers run with about 42gr of 110 and a 2.160 C.O.L.
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02-02-2014, 10:00 PM
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I chose this load because it groups best out of my longer barrels (10.5")
At 41 grains extraction becomes sticky and velocity is near 1800fps. Over 41.2 grains of H110 extraction is difficult.
I have driven them faster than 1800fps but consider these near proof loads and would not consider shooting them with any regularity as there is no reason. Groups open up and a fews hundred foot pounds of energy have no real value when you are producing over 2200 ft/lbs. at 1600fps.
Be safe
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02-02-2014, 11:03 PM
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I see.
Was just curious to see how near max 300gr rounds compare to Hornady's 200gr FTX factory round.
I have only fired one box of the Hornady factory ammo and just in those 20 rds, I had some sticky extraction on a couple occasions. About 50% of the time. I find it a little strange being that I would expect nearly identical rounds from a factory.
Guess that and your real world testing shows that Hornady ammo lives up to it's promise. I only bought some factory ammo when I first got my 460 to get brass! LOL! I'l be reloading from here on out, even when I need new brass...for several reasons... First and foremost being in NY and there will be BG checks for ammo (reloading components exempt) here soon, and I refuse to participate.
Last edited by RIDE-RED 350r; 02-02-2014 at 11:07 PM.
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02-02-2014, 11:59 PM
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Hornady told me they us H110 in their factory 200 grain ammo.
(I have since found this to be false (june 2018)
I pulled bullets from 20 rounds and powder weight was 52.1 grain average.
I believe they list max as 52.7.
Load at 51.2 grains and get right at 2200fps.
Starting at about 50.2 grains the increase in velocity is very small as powder is increased.
This were I typically load at, don't see any difference in group size, at least with my shooting.
Be safe.
Last edited by ruggyh; 06-14-2018 at 02:40 PM.
Reason: correction due to new information
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02-10-2014, 04:58 PM
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UPDATE
Got the new 3.5" gun coming. I will update the data to reflect the new kid. I pass a couple hundred rounds through it first.
I will also add data for a 10" BFR a fellow enthusiast has volunteered to allow me to shoot.
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04-22-2014, 05:44 PM
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Shoot the new 3.5" gun and there is little difference between it and the 3.5" compensated modeling terms of velocity. I shoot them side by side and recoil is slightly less with the compensated gun. That said there is noticeably less flash and noise out of the new uncompensated model.
Be safe
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04-25-2014, 10:19 PM
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Last edited by whitecoyote; 04-25-2014 at 10:46 PM.
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04-29-2014, 02:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruggyh
I have seen the question poised on several occasions.
Most of us know that even the same barrel length revolvers will deliver a small difference because of a variety of factors.
I decided to chrono each barrel length under the same conditions earlier this month.
A few notes:
• The 8.375” gun has in excess of 10000 round down the tube buy myself and the previous owner, whom said he shot about 6000 Colt, 1000 Casull, and only a few boxes of Hornady 200 grain. I have shoot 3000 rounds of a variety of 460 rounds from 200 to 300 grain.
• The 10.5” gun Has about 6000 rounds of 460 S&W most of which are equivalent to Hornady factory 200 loads.
• The rest of the guns have less than 3000 rounds each.
• The 2.75” and 3” guns have low round count less than 1000 each.
Data collected with Kurzzeit chronograph
Factory Hornady 200 FTX ammo, all from the same lot, was used.
The 300grain XTP MAG under 38.2grains of H110 with a OAL of 2.195”
200 Grain Hornady FTX DATA
Barrel Length AVG of 5 shoots
2.75" 1897fps
3.5" 2033fps
4" 2059fps
6.5" 2165fps
7.5" 2240fps
8.375" 2180fps
10.5" 2203fps
12" 2370fps
14" 2313fps
14" c 2318fps
Ruger #1- 22" 2924fps
300 Grain , 38.2 H110, OAL 2.195
Barrel Length AVG of 5 shoots
2.75" not tested
3.5" not tested
4" 1409fps
6.5" 1495fps
7.5" 1549fps
8.375" 1502fps
10.5" 1536fps
12" 1542fps
14" 1528fps
14" c 1559fps
Ruger #1-22" 2161fps
Good Luck and be safe
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This is the kind of data reloaders CRAVE! Published load data for the X frames seems locked onto 8.5-12" barrels without regard for the more portable, shorter options.
BC gap matters a LOT...I have a 4" .500 that shoots on average 100 fps faster than my 6.5" .500 due to the difference in BC tolerance! S&W has never been particularly careful to insure every gun leaves the house with the same BC.
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04-29-2014, 04:36 AM
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Why does the 8.375" shot slower than the shorter barreled guns when all the longer barreled guns get incrementally faster? Is it because of the higher round count?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
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04-29-2014, 12:32 PM
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Velocity is affected by a number of variables.
For revolvers the biggest influence are cylinder gap, throat, and barrel length. There are others such as barrel wear, forcing cone condition (which influences cylinder gap) and others.
I suspect in this case barrel wear and cylinder gap are biggest influences in this case.
I plan to do a detailed measurement of these revolvers this summer and will post the results along with a new set of velocity data taken at the same time. This time I will use 200XPB and 240 XTP MAG bullets.
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01-24-2015, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitecoyote
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These are really good pics. Thanks for posting them. Can't get enough of the "little" 460. I need one ASAP.
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01-24-2015, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcc629
These are really good pics. Thanks for posting them. Can't get enough of the "little" 460. I need one ASAP.
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Shoots nice too! 
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01-24-2015, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitecoyote
Shoots nice too!
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Great photo. That begs for a Youtube video slowed way down and set to Johnny Cash's "Ring of Fire"...
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01-24-2015, 08:39 PM
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Recently bought a 3.5" 460 and had to stop on the way home and at least fire a couple rounds (even though it was -4 degrees). :-) Not nearly as cool as the fire ring pic, but this muzzle flash is from a factory Hornady 200gr FTX...
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05-22-2015, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruggyh
I have seen the question poised on several occasions.
Most of us know that even the same barrel length revolvers will deliver a small difference because of a variety of factors.
I decided to chrono each barrel length under the same conditions earlier this month.
A few notes:
• The 8.375” gun has in excess of 10000 round down the tube buy myself and the previous owner, whom said he shot about 6000 Colt, 1000 Casull, and only a few boxes of Hornady 200 grain. I have shoot 3000 rounds of a variety of 460 rounds from 200 to 300 grain.
• The 10.5” gun Has about 6000 rounds of 460 S&W most of which are equivalent to Hornady factory 200 loads.
• The rest of the guns have less than 3000 rounds each.
• The 2.75” and 3” guns have low round count less than 1000 each.
Data collected with Kurzzeit chronograph
Factory Hornady 200 FTX ammo, all from the same lot, was used.
The 300grain XTP MAG under 38.2grains of H110 with a OAL of 2.195”
200 Grain Hornady FTX DATA
Barrel Length AVG of 5 shoots
2.75" 1897fps
3.5" 2033fps
4" 2059fps
6.5" 2165fps
7.5" 2240fps
8.375" 2180fps
10.5" 2203fps
12" 2370fps
14" 2313fps
14" c 2318fps
Ruger #1- 22" 2924fps
300 Grain , 38.2 H110, OAL 2.195
Barrel Length AVG of 5 shoots
2.75" not tested
3.5" not tested
4" 1409fps
6.5" 1495fps
7.5" 1549fps
8.375" 1502fps
10.5" 1536fps
12" 1542fps
14" 1528fps
14" c 1559fps
Ruger #1-22" 2161fps
Good Luck and be safe
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Fantastic information. Thank you for sharing.
On a side note, I just completed load development with my 8 3/8" gun using 300 grain XTP MAG bullets and 4227 powder. Velocity is 1525 with an extreme spread of 14 fps.
My son will be using that load for a cow elk hunt in October.
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03-02-2016, 08:16 PM
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Cool pictures
Heres 5 200s with the northern lights
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12-02-2019, 12:34 AM
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Thanks ruggyh, Not that was one of the best and most helpful and also very informative post. I don't come on here much at all, in fact not for over a year, but did a search on Balistics by the inch for my new 460 Bone Collector. Your post came up in my search. Not that kind of actual data out there anywhere. Thank you much. Great contribution. Must say, It is pretty eye opening. Expected to see wider variations between the shorter and the longest. Thanks again.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruggyh
I have seen the question poised on several occasions.
Most of us know that even the same barrel length revolvers will deliver a small difference because of a variety of factors.
I decided to chrono each barrel length under the same conditions earlier this month.
A few notes:
• The 8.375” gun has in excess of 10000 round down the tube buy myself and the previous owner, whom said he shot about 6000 Colt, 1000 Casull, and only a few boxes of Hornady 200 grain. I have shoot 3000 rounds of a variety of 460 rounds from 200 to 300 grain.
• The 10.5” gun Has about 6000 rounds of 460 S&W most of which are equivalent to Hornady factory 200 loads.
• The rest of the guns have less than 3000 rounds each.
• The 2.75” and 3” guns have low round count less than 1000 each.
Data collected with Kurzzeit chronograph
Factory Hornady 200 FTX ammo, all from the same lot, was used.
The 300grain XTP MAG under 38.2grains of H110 with a OAL of 2.195”
200 Grain Hornady FTX DATA
Barrel Length AVG of 5 shoots
2.75" 1897fps
3.5" 2033fps
4" 2059fps
6.5" 2165fps
7.5" 2240fps
8.375" 2180fps
10.5" 2203fps
12" 2370fps
14" 2313fps
14" c 2318fps
Ruger #1- 22" 2924fps
300 Grain , 38.2 H110, OAL 2.195
Barrel Length AVG of 5 shoots
2.75" not tested
3.5" not tested
4" 1409fps
6.5" 1495fps
7.5" 1549fps
8.375" 1502fps
10.5" 1536fps
12" 1542fps
14" 1528fps
14" c 1559fps
Ruger #1-22" 2161fps
Good Luck and be safe
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Can anyone say why the 7.5" barrel velocity surpasses the
8.375" barrel and is comparable to the 10.5" barrel?
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03-30-2024, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AceCarnivorous
Can anyone say why the 7.5" barrel velocity surpasses the
8.375" barrel and is comparable to the 10.5" barrel?
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Cylinder/Barrel gap size could be a factor.
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03-30-2024, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AceCarnivorous
Can anyone say why the 7.5" barrel velocity surpasses the
8.375" barrel and is comparable to the 10.5" barrel?
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The most likely explanation is larger cylinder to forcing cone gap on the 8 3/8" gun.
EDIT: Imissedagain beat me to it.
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Last edited by Tom S.; 03-30-2024 at 10:50 AM.
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04-05-2024, 04:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imissedagain
Cylinder/Barrel gap size could be a factor.
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Thank you.
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04-05-2024, 05:03 AM
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Thanks all.
I ask because I'm deciding between the 460XVR HI VIZ 7.5" or the 460XVR 8.38".
The possibility of a little more velocity with a somewhat longer barrel is a factor to consider.
Would anyone like to say which they prefer and why?
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04-05-2024, 09:15 AM
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From forcing cone to the barrel's end, not counting
the muzzle brake, the 8.375" is really 7.5" long.
Wanted a true 8.375" barrel with no muzzle brake.
Just for a traditional front end look.
No 7.5" Performance Center model to measure.
Was told the muzzle brake on the 7.5" is removable.
Don't know what it looks like when removed.
Flush would be nice.
Can't go wrong with either one.
Trigger on our 3.5" and the 8.375" are fine DA/SA
Both break crisp at about 4.5 lbs.
The OEM Hogues did not fit my hand, too low of a hold
and other issues. Our wood shop to the rescue.
Slowly, but making progress.
Nice to have grips that work with warm gloves or
thin gloves/bare hands.
Whites are for warm gloves.
A bit of Nill/Hempfill inspiration on the right side of the whites.
The Bubingas are the same.
Trying for a traditional shape with a new school feel.
Old pic, fresh off the Marlin carver and being bedded,
so the serious work can begin.
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Last edited by Imissedagain; 04-05-2024 at 09:31 AM.
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04-05-2024, 10:13 AM
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460
For those wondering about what the 460 round can do from a closed chamber, not a revolver! I put together a TC Encore w/20" barrel and before I had a scope mounted we fired it over a chronograph. 200gr Hornady FTX from a 10.5" barrel on a revolver was 2450fps and from the 20" Encore it was 2999fps! Just think, the old standby, the 30-06 with a 200gr bullet goes how fast?
jcelect
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04-06-2024, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcelect
For those wondering about what the 460 round can do from a closed chamber, not a revolver! I put together a TC Encore w/20" barrel and before I had a scope mounted we fired it over a chronograph. 200gr Hornady FTX from a 10.5" barrel on a revolver was 2450fps and from the 20" Encore it was 2999fps! Just think, the old standby, the 30-06 with a 200gr bullet goes how fast?
jcelect
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Impressive. Makes we want to dust of the 460 and 500 and take them out - I have not shot them since covid :-(
Anyone have one(or more) of those awesome Big Horn Armory Model 89/90 lever guns?
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04-07-2024, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmStaff64
Impressive. Makes we want to dust of the 460 and 500 and take them out - I have not shot them since covid :-(
Anyone have one(or more) of those awesome Big Horn Armory Model 89/90 lever guns?
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Yes, I have a 500 carbine and rifle and carbine versions of 460 Bighorn lever guns- they a very nice rifles.
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Ruggy
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04-07-2024, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imissedagain
.....
Was told the muzzle brake on the 7.5" is removable.
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If you remove the comp on 7.5 PC model (unscrew it) the barrel shroud of the will come off and the barrel is unsupported.
While it is possible to make the 7.5" uncomped it takes some work and special tools to do it.
Here is a thread on an uncomped 6.5" I did.
The 460 Smith & Wesson didn't make!
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Ruggy
Last edited by ruggyh; 04-09-2024 at 12:59 PM.
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04-07-2024, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcelect
For those wondering about what the 460 round can do from a closed chamber, not a revolver! I put together a TC Encore w/20" barrel and before I had a scope mounted we fired it over a chronograph. 200gr Hornady FTX from a 10.5" barrel on a revolver was 2450fps and from the 20" Encore it was 2999fps! Just think, the old standby, the 30-06 with a 200gr bullet goes how fast?
jcelect
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-- and just over 3000 fps from the Ruger#1 that are available.
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Ruggy
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04-07-2024, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AceCarnivorous
Thanks all.
I ask because I'm deciding between the 460XVR HI VIZ 7.5" or the 460XVR 8.38".
The possibility of a little more velocity with a somewhat longer barrel is a factor to consider.
Would anyone like to say which they prefer and why?
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The effective barrel length of both models is 7.5".
The PC is a little heavier because of the unfluted cylinder.
Accuracy is the same esthetics and cost are the difference.
Her is thread discussing the 7.5" version.
7.5 inch Barreled 460 S&W Magnums (with Photos)
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Last edited by ruggyh; 04-09-2024 at 11:16 AM.
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04-09-2024, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruggyh
The effective barrel length of both models is 7.5".
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Really! I would never have know that without this forum.
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