Thinking of getting one.
All comments welcome, especially from those who have one.
Thanks

Go for it! (I don't have one).

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But then, what do I know?

Have one. Highly recommended!

Want one! Will probably be my next gun purchase.

Hope Hickok45 on Youtube puts a 69 thu the paces. I'd like to hear his take on it. He has an awesome channel on Youtube.

Yes he does. I enjoy watching his show, esp. when I can't be outside shooting.

If you get one report back. Those 69s seem really nice.

Currently, I have a 469 and a 6926. The 3rd gen has always gone bang, but shoots to the right (gotta drift the rear sight to correct that; easy fix.) I've only had the 469 for a week, and put about 60rds through it. It's an old gun with lots of wear, but it didn't fail once. However, it shoots very high and also to the right. Again, I can drift the rear sight, but shooting high isn't something so easily corrected.

Compared to my (longer) 459 and 5906, neither one groups as well. But when you consider the nature of the beast, that's kinda okay (and to be expected.) Based on my experience with the two, I'd say go with a 3rd gen like the 6906. Much better fit/finish and much nicer sights.

This thread is about the new L-Frame 44 Magnum Model 69 revolver.

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

If you can find one at a price you can afford BUY IT IMMEDIATELY!
Do not assume the M69 is going to be an offering the in S&W line forever...it likely will not be.
Don't listen to all the negative **** about whether it will hold up to half-a-billion rounds of full-power ammo...anyone spouting that is an i***t. The gun was built to allow you to shoot full-power .44 Magnum when needed, and you can shoot .44 special or "mid-range" magnum fodder all you want.

IF the price is reasonable, buy it and enjoy it!

I want one but want to handle it first and have not seen one yet.
Its on my "next Smith" list.

It is on my wish list. But, in reality buying another revolver any time soon is no likely. The doctor is getting all my gun money.

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<><

Pretty well sums up my thoughts on the M69 and one of the reasons I have two of them.

I have a little over 1,000 rnds thru one and right at 900 thru the other without a hitch in either. I've shot everything from 240s at 750fps to 320gr WLNGCs at a chronoed 1,182 fps. Probably 20% were mid range to full house .44 Mags, the rest 240gr Laser cast at 880 fps. If you like the L-Frame Smiths and the .44 Mag (which I do), this is a great combo.

I put the Hogue 500 S&W grips on mine due to a problem with the bone at base of my thumb and can shoot full house .44 Mags without any pain. For enjoyment, I shoot 240gr with 6.5gr HP38 for an honest 880 fps -- usually finish up with several cylinders of 265gr SWCGCs over 17.0gr of 2400 for a chroned 1,140 fps. My carry load is a 260gr WFNGC over enough H110 to give me 1,220 fps.

A while back, I took the 329, 629 Mtn Gun and the M69 to the range. Ammo was Federal Factory .44 Mag 240gr JHP (No. 44A). My perception was that recoil of the 329 is definitely snappier/faster, and the Mtn Gun has a bit more muzzle rise vs. the M69. Only thing I can think of is that the barrel is skinnier and the bore to grip relationship is higher on the 629 vs. the M69 (which rides lower in the hand and has a bit more weight forward). Could also just be my imagination. As should be expected, the Mtn Gun feels a bit bulky compared to the M69 – subtle, but noticeable to me.


If it helps, I chronographed the following in one of my guns:

Load Data for REFERENCE ONLY -- NOT A RECOMMENDATION.

Federal Factory 240gr JHP (No. 44A) Vel: 1,217 fps
(We chroned this load at 1,375 fps from a 7 1/2" Bisley Hunter

240gr Horn JHP XTP at 1,323 fps (Hodgdon says 1,522 fps from 8.275” Bbl)

260gr LBT WFNGC at 1,224 fps

240gr lasercast CSWCs at 880 fps.

265gr SWCGC at 1,142 fps

270gr Speer JSP at 1,153 fps (My 6” 629 gives 1,207 fps -- Hodgdon says 1,421 fps from 8.275” Bbl)

300gr WFNPB 1.651" OAL - LBT type - source unknown.
20.0gr H110.
Fed 155 (Mag)
New Top Brass (Scharch.com).
1,102 fps avg, 37 fps ES

310gr RNFPGC DC 1.605" OAL (top crimp grove) - LEE mold.
20.0gr H110.
Fed 155 (Mag)
New Top Brass (Scharch.com).
1,141 fps avg, 23 fps ES

325gr WLNGC 1.711" OAL - Beartooth Bullets.
22.0gr H110.
Fed 155 (Mag)
New Top Brass (Scharch.com).
1,182 fps avg, 13 fps ES (3 shots only)

Load Data for REFERENCE ONLY -- NOT A RECOMMENDATION.

I really like the M69.

FWIW,

Paul

Ditto to that!

__________________
-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

Paul, thanks so much for this post. This is what I've been looking for since the debate on the 69 started: true velocities and indications of regular use comprising 100s of rounds, not simply 5 chrono'd rounds of each load. Also, many of the loads are true magnum types, not only sub-loads or .44 Spl. 'friendlies.' Appreciate.

And yet, others above believe the 69 will not last. Would like to hear their views why. I do not disagree.

It may not sell well I have heard the ball detent is Turning some people away because it doesn't look perfect but hey I got one on layaway so I can't complain it doesn't bother me at all

I've had my M69 for about 2 months now, and it's one of my favorite revolvers. I also own a 629 Classic, and a 329PD. Since I reload, I pretty much load what I'm comfortable with. My range loads are typically 220gn. Hard Cast SCW's. about 1000 fps, and my hunting loads are 305gn. JHP's powered up to about 1350fps. I did put the 500 X-Frame grips on my 69 to lessen the back-strap recoil impact. I also installed a Leupold DeltaPoint to speed target acquisition. Love it...

Attached Images

69a.jpg (135.3 KB, 344 views)

Has the delta point held up ok I like the idea I am just curious if it will hold up

I am really happy that I bought mine. Great woods boppin gun. Accuracy, either the gun's or mine is getting better each each time out. Don't wait

I love Hickok45's set-up (range) & man, can he shoot.

I've had one since February and have close to 2000 rounds through it. I put on a set of Hogue grips because the factory grips were too small for my hands. I also made a patridge front sight for it to do away with the red ramp and finally an action job. Mine shoots pretty good and about the same as my 629-4 5". As far as the ball detent goes it needs to be off center from the notch. If you have had the cylinder apart you can see that if the hole is drilled any closer to the center of the yoke it will be drilled into the back of the gas ring. The way mine is the ball detent is constantly putting pressure on the yoke to keep the front of the cylinder closed. I think if the ball rested in the center of the notch there wouldn't be any inward pressure on the yoke.
As much as i like this revolver I don't know if I will be purchasing anymore new ones in the future due to the price but I said that 20 years ago when I bought the 629-4 and paid $500.00 for it. I have only bought three new revolvers over the years and I prefer to buy used.

Mike

Leupold makes a GREAT Red Dot. It holds up excellent. Yes, there are cheaper Red Dots out there, but if you want your revolver to hold zero a Leupold is my first choice. I shoot maximum loads often and I haven't had to re-sight the DeltaPoint yet.

Does it come with a correct mounting plate or was that a separate part you bought

I just bought a Model 69 last week, and shot it a bit yesterday. So far, I like it. The trigger is heavier than I expected ... I've only had J-Frames before (two 360sc .357 snubbies and a 3" Model 60 Pro .357, and they all have (without a trigger job) about a 3lb (single-action) trigger ... I was expecting the same for the Model 69, but it's about 5lb (single-action). I'll probably get a trigger job on it, to get it down to about 3lb.

I was surprised that, when I fully push the ejector to the stops, that it doesn't push the casings all the way out. The same thing happens with my 360sc's, but I've always thought that that was because the 360sc is just the .357 version of the Model 337 .38Special, and the ejector can't be made any longer. There seems to be plenty of room in the 69 for a longer ejector rod, so I don't know why S&W didn't use a longer one.

I bought 4 different kinds of ammo (all .44mag), from the lowest energy American Eagle's (Midway says 742 ft-lb, but the box says 805 ft-lb), all the way to PPU (Midway says 1272 ft-lb), all 240gr JHP's. I was surprised at how much recoil the AE's had ... wasn't using gloves, and within three shots had a big bruise/blood-blister between my thumb and index finger. Put on gloves, and shot one round of the other 3 types (with MUCH apprehension), and one additional round of the AE ... I couldn't tell any difference in recoil between the four types! Should be pretty obvious, I would think, given the 742 ft-lb to 1272 ft-lb spread.

Years ago, I had a US Arms Abilene single-action .44mag, and I don't remember its recoil being as heavy (or as bruising) as the 69 ... it might have been a fair amount heavier though (and I was a fair amount younger!).

Mike,

Major ammo makers "specs" aren't necessarily realistic, except in longer barreled guns (and some not even then). Some of the smaller specialty ammo makers (Buffalo Bore, Double Tap and several others) will be closer to advertised velocity.


I find the PPU "specs" as listed by Midway to be particularly "OPTIMISTIC" for a handgun.

Technical Information
Caliber: 44 Rem Mag
Bullet Weight: 240 Grains
Bullet Style: Jacketed Hollow Point
Case Type: Brass


Ballistics Information:
Muzzle Velocity: 1541 fps
Muzzle Energy: 1272 ft lbs


The American Eage Specs are much more realistic:

Technical Information

Muzzle Velocity: 1180 fps
Muzzle Energy: 742 ft. lbs.


I've chronographed Two Factory Loads

Federal 240gr JHP at 1,217 fps
Remington 240gr JHP at 1,245 fps

Both from 4" S&Ws -- the same Federal Load Chronoed 1,375 fps from a 7 1/2" Ruger Bisley Hunter.

FWIW,

Paul

Thanks for that info. I suspect that the Federal and the AE have the same ballistics ... at least, that's what Federal has said. That would support the ballistics on the AE box (805 ft-lb, 1230 ft/s) ... Midway's info on AE must be wrong. That would also help explain why the AE had more recoil than I expected ... although it still FELT like more than 805 ft-lbs to me.

The reason that I was expecting the AE to feel pretty mild, is that I have shot full-spec 125gr Underwood and 158gr DoubleTap .357's (which have almost as much muzzle-energy as the .44mag AE Midway data) in my Model 60 Pro (which is quite a bit lighter than my new Model 69), and the recoil was reasonable. I realize that for equal energies, a heavier bullet will have more momentum, and momentum is what most closely correlates with felt recoil (for equal-weight guns), but I still didn't expect THAT much difference in felt recoil.

Mark f did the mounting plate come with the delta point and I can't wait I pick my 69 up in a week

No problem at all. It was a great investment....

Yes the mounting plate is included IF you buy the DeltaPoint that includes all the adapters with it. I bought mine at Cabala's.
You can sell off the other adapters 20 bucks each. The Leopold adapters work with Docter Red dot sights too.

Yes, I bought mine with the correct mount.

I was seriously temped by the 69 but ended up getting the 66 next to it. The 69 is very nice revolver.

I finally found a Model 69 to have a close look at today and I was favorably impressed. I wouldn't say very favorably - just favorably. The shop also had a new Model 66, which I looked at briefly. Both seemed like pretty darned nice guns, if one can set aside concerns about "the modern design features" and the heavily "frosted" (bead blasted) finish. Both seemed like worthy additions to what I already have that is more than I will ever need.

Tonight I am arguing with myself about the 69. It is a terrible temptation. I am resisting, but I suppose it is just a matter of time before it wins.

The new Model 66 is cool too.

Just wondering, how long do you think it'll last in the offerings? I was a bit surprised the NIGHTGUARD series ended when it did as I had a .357/8 shot and it was a sweet shooter. The 5' 4" wife enjoyed shooting it too (I only let her use the .38s).

Sigh...To date I haven't seen one at Sportsmans Wherehouse or Bass Pro Shop here in Vegas. I too need to handle one before purchasing.

I bought mine at Cabela's a few months ago (just north of Denver). They had at least two then.

I bought one a couple of weeks ago on GB, LNIB, for $625. I've had it to the range twice and I must say I am impressed. The recoil is tough but not punishing and the gun functioned flawlessly and proved to be extremely accurate just like all my other S&W revolvers.

While this is not a gun I will shoot "a lot" it will be shot occasionally and it is certainly one that will be carried on my hip every time I'm out in the woods which is the express purpose for which it was purchased. When not in the woods it will reside in the nightstand beside my bed.

All of my other S&W revolvers, 19s and 66s, are ones that I have a love affair with. I love them because of their look, style and shootability. They are works of art that function above all others. (IMHO) Not so the M69. It is a tool. It is a hammer or a pair of pliers. It is not beautiful and it is certainly an exercise in form follows function. But, in that role, it is flawless. It is heavy, durable, accurate and reliable. "She ain't much to look at but she sure can cook." In a SHTF scenario I would reach for it without hesitation.

Bob

Quick round count update:

Gun #2 -- 1,992 total rounds (775 of those were 265gr at 1,140fps and Fed Factory 240s at 1,217 fps).

The gun shows no signs of wear -- still as tight as it came from the factory and no end shake at all.

FWIW,

Paul

That's pretty impressive. Those loads are nothing to sneeze at.

I wish you guys would quit bragging on your Model 69s...

Mine spent the last 3 days on my hip while spending time in the mountains. Sure feels nice. Great packing gun.

Definitely not .44Special, but not full-spec for .44mag ... the above weights and velocities are in the 7xx ft-lb range (765 ft-lb and 789 ft-lb) ... way above .44Special, but well below full-power .44mag. DoubleTap 240gr JHP's are listed at 1500 ft/s and 1200 ft-lbs (7.5" barrel), probably somewhere around 1370 ft/s and 1000 ft-lb for a 4-1/4" barrel, I suspect. PPU's are listed at about the same level.

Thanks, Mike!

A picture of the new guns being discussed for those who may not have seen them yet. They are obviously going to be a big hit.....

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Terry

Has anyone here done a polish job on their M-69 yet? I'm tempted. Really tempted.

Bob

Mike,

If you really want to have some fun, get yourself a chronograph and test some of the velocity claims of ammo makers.

Do this with different barrel lengths and different guns.

Do it under different temperature and weather conditions.

Then do it all over again with handloaded ammunition.

Then try it again with different lots of the same components.

Then do it again with new brass, 3x fired brass, and multi x fired brass.

I think you’ll find that very few real life velocities will equal maker’s “optimistic” claims (especially with shorter barreled handguns) – not saying some won’t (Buffalo Bore and Underwood seem to most consistent in equaling printed claims). Double Tap seems to be a bit optimistic -- PPU also falls in the "a bit optimistic" category.

A lot of work has been done on factory ammo by “Shadow” and “Intercooler” here:

44 Magnum Factory/Commercial Ammo pulldowns - 10mm-firearms.com

Check out Double Tap results in posts – #16, #17 and #48. Remember “Shadow” is using an 8 3/8” S&W and “intercooler” a 7 ½” Redhawk. Double Tap “made it’s bones” loading hot 10mm ammo. I chronoed some DT 230gr WFNGCs at 1,045 fps vs the stated 1,120fps from a glock 20 – the same gun DT used for the quoted vel. Diff guns, diff component lots, diff temp, etc., etc.

Don’t mean to infer this is “the definitive” study but rather an example of a couple of interested shooters conducting some limited tests.

From John Taffin on Elmer Keith’s guns and loads:

-44 MAGNUM: Keith early settled on 22.0 grains of #2400 with his #429421 bullet for 1225 fps. out of a 4" Smith, 1400+ fps out of a 6 1/2" Smith or 7 1/2" Ruger. These are hunting handloads pure and simple, with this load taking big game all over the world.

The Sixguns and Loads of Elmer Keith

Anyway, while you are right that the 265gr Load at 1,140 fps (4 ¼” bbl) isn’t a full spec .44 Mag load, it certainly comes close. The Fed Factory load at 1,217 fps (which I chronoed at a 1,375 fps from a 7 ½” Ruger Bisley Hunter is .44 Magnum ammo from a major manufacturer and was made in 1981.

Anyway, there is a wide range of .44 Magnum loads, some of the ones that achieve very high velocities, are from Botique makers and probably do so at questionable pressures – they aren’t going to blow your gun up, but over time they will most likely loosen it up. At a $100/box of 50 delivered, you won’t be shooting these in any quantity. Further, I can’t duplicate their velocities in my guns using current reloading data. Different guns with the same barrel length will also give different velocities. Go back up to my post #13 – the 240gr XTP, 270gr Speer FP, and the 325gr Beartooth loads are right out of Hodgdon’s on line load data – you can see my results from 4 ¼” bbl vs Hodgdon’s.

Really didn’t mean to get this long winded, but thought it might be appropriate to discuss mfg claims and “.44 Mag specs”.

Also, I’m not sure who would buy the M69 to shoot hundreds of Buffalo Bore “Deer Grenades” (240gr at 1,600 fps) – which is refed as a +P load (no such thing as +P load for .44 Mag).

FWIW,

Paul

Thanks for all that info ... very useful. I thought the velocities you quoted were the velocities listed by the manufacturer on the box (and could be compared against other manufacturers' listings on their boxes), which often are for fairly long barrels (which are often not included in the listing).

I've do have a chronograph, and I used it a good bit to assess loads for my S&W360sc .357 scandium/titanium snubby years ago, but my only place to shoot here now is at an indoor range where I'm not allowed to place anything (like a chronograph) downrange from the firing line, so no personal measurements have been possible for my 10mm 1911 and my .44mag M69.

I am aware that it's hard to predict the effect of barrel length on muzzle energy without making actual measurements. I shot some Underwood 125gr .357 JHP's out of my Model 60-15 3", and the flash and blast were horrendous ... that seems to imply that the pressure was still quite high when the bullet exited, and that a longer barrel would probably give much higher velocities. On the other hand, both Underwood and DoubleTap 10mm loads (with both light and heavy bullets) gave very little flash and blast out of my full-size 1911 (roughly a 4" ACTUAL barrel length), which seems to imply that in that case, a somewhat longer barrel probably wouldn't produce a lot more velocity.

I haven't shot any of the .44mag DoubleTap ammo I've bought yet, so I don't know yet how much flash and blast I'll see out of my 4-1/4" M69. (I bought it with the intention of using it as my carry round, because it has been my favorite round for my 10mm 1911). I DID shoot a little of the PPU .44mag ammo, and didn't notice much flash, so my 4-1/4" barrel probably doesn't handicap me very much for that round. Perhaps their listing is wildly optimistic, though ... I don't know.

Have had mine for several months now. Three came in to my LGS and was able to pick the best of the three. I wear fingerless bicycle gloves when range shooting. 200 grain flying ash trays (bought a lot of them when they stopped making blazer versions of it.), 44 special heavy 255 grain HC Buffalo Bore and just fine. 210 grain Silvertio 44 magnum also fine, 240 grain magnum AE noticeable but manageable. 255 grain HC BB Low recoil 44 magnum BB. About as much fun as I want but perfect for the Model 69. Have about retired my PC 629 snubbie 44 magnum. Still have a place and times for the 44 magnum Night Guard. The Model 69 if it's my hand better than the N frame, perfect balance of weight, handy and carry. As though made for Alaska fishing the rivers, camping and hiking. My Marlin 45-70 is the hunting rifle and for checking out things, but sometimes will have only a handgun and the Model 69 is becoming a favorite.

Just a thought: Today's Model 69 is tomorrow's 69 No Dash.

Bob

Found one local today. Picking it up first thing in the morning. Can't wait to fire it. My first handgun was purchased in 1977. A S&W 19-4 .357. Still have it. The model 69 should go nicely with it I think.

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Wayne

Have one on the way next week but can't find a speedloader for it.:

Found it. Looked at. Fondled it. Bought it. Like it. Waiting a couple of weeks before I can get out to fire it is going to be a long wait.

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Wayne