.38spl 60-4 Vs .357 60-15 size difference

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Have been wanting a 60-4 for a few years, but could never find one at a decent price. A 60-15 just popped up and I jumped on it. (both 3" SS J-Frames w/adjustable sights)

Besides internal lock and 38 Vs 357, couple questions on what differences I am missing by going with the .357 60-15 J-Frame.

What is the real size and empty weight difference?

Does the .357 simply have a longer chamber, or is entire cylinder longer and thicker to handle the .357 round? How much longer and wider is cylinder?

Is the frame stronger or thicker? Top strap?

Any other physical differences between these two?

Thanks,
Rob
 
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The 60-15 is built on the J Magnum frame, which is noticeably larger than the standard J to fit the internal lock but also in other dimensions.

The -15 is listed at 24.5 ounces but I don't see a weight for the -4; I would guess it is lighter but by no more than 1-2 ounces. Someone here with a -4 and a scale can let us know. Ditto on the dimensions. The 60-4 was heat-treated to handle .38 +P but I don't know if the .357 has a different treatment. This shouldn't affect the weight in any case. Hope this is helpful.
 
The cylinder is longer, but not thicker. You would have to hold them side by side to see this difference.

The increases in strength do not come from using MORE metal. They come from advances in metallurgy and manufacturing that S&W has learned since the design of the model 60 over 54 years ago

The weight difference is approximately 1 1/2 ounces due to the slightly longer barrel with the full under-lug.
 
Thanks guys for the replies so far, they are very helpful.

So it seems that externally, both are of similar size and weight?

Doing comparison searches, and it seems usually 95% of responders say the better one to get is the 60-4. But if externally they are nearly identical, and the 60-15 also allows you to shoot .357 when desired, or 38spl like the 60-4 if that is your choice, seems the 60-15 would be the best choice. What am I missing here?
 
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Many folks will say "why get a 38 when you can get the same thing in 357"-- certainly makes sense, at least from the perspective of maximum versatility.

But then-- does a person NEED e'thing chambered to the max? Esp in a j-frame? You're missing nothing here.

I've only recently strayed into 357 territory but it wasn't so much for the load, it was simply cuz there are so many more options avail-- even if 38s will gen'ly get shot. I like shrouded ejector rods, hard to find on a 38.

I like my 60-4 cuz of the simplicity-- no lock-- forged H/T-- and put it this way:

It's 20 years old. 20 years hence, which of the 2 will protect a guy's investment better? I'd rather have my $$ in the 60-4.

And don't forget the 3" 36-6-- same as the 60-4, 'cept blued. Only made 615 of those, yet they sell cheaper than the 60-4s simply cuz they're not stainless.


I'll add-- I know it's largely "luck of the draw", but my 60-4 has an unusually smooth DA action for a j-frame....
 
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I am not up on all the new models as all my guns are old. I have some fine guns. I like light. For instance I have a 63-3 3" and a 2 1/2" python. At some point it dawned on me I am carrying heavy chunks of steel that yes, are in .357 but most of the time I carried .38 special in them. I have a model 36 3". Same 3 ' barrel as the 66-3 and weighs about half as much. Carry's the same ammo as I used in the 66 and noticeably lighter to pack.
 
colt_saa said:
I did not notice in your post that you had mentioned they are both 3"

I would bet most everyone here was thinking snubbies

The weight will be so close you will not perceive it
Click to expand...



Sorry, I knew that the 60-4 was only available in 3" version, and thought the same for the 60-15 I purchased, but perhaps 60-15 is also available in other lengths? Edited original post to avoid confusion.
 
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I thought the dash 7 was the first to be heat treated for plus P.
I like the Magnum versions for a few reasons. I use a M442 for pocket carry. When I use a belt holster, the extra weight is not a problem, and recoil is less. For a reloader, the Magnum revolver opens up the plus P plus range. If I want a little more, I don't have to worry about damaging the gun. I have the option to carry what I want on the trail. I know that I will not be packing my M686. Heavy Magnum ammo will be carried a lot and hopefully, never shot. I have fired Federal 125 gr JHP Magnum out of my M60-10. It was not fun but would be usable up close and personal, if needed. I can take pain pills when I get home. And, finally, even though it is no excuse for sloppy reloading, I would appreciate the extra strength if I made an error at the bench.

Best,
Rick
 
With reloads, would it make much difference using 38spl vs .357 brass? Bullet jump? Have a ton of 38spl brass, but if using .357 brass with gain a little better accuracy, will stock up.
 
My usual carry ammo is plus P, and it is as accurate as I can tell using a rest and my 3 inch 686.
The only problem is that deposits build up in the chamber ahead of the case mouth, and need to be cleaned.
I prefer to use Magnum cases.
If plus P plus is loaded, there is a problem that, if loaded in 38 SPL cases, it might get fired in a gun that is not up to the extra pressure.
If you want plus P velocity with MAG cases, you will need more powder than with SPL cases. For my powders, like A#5, somewhere near an extra grain. Make sure that the manuals show MAG loads for the powder used. Some powders might not be suitable for MAG cases.

Best,
Rick
 
riverrat38 said:
The only problem is that deposits build up in the chamber ahead of the case mouth, and need to be cleaned.
I prefer to use Magnum cases.
If plus P plus is loaded, there is a problem that, if loaded in 38 SPL cases, it might get fired in a gun that is not up to the extra pressure.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that very good info. The 38 spl's here are all +P k frames, but I could see how this could be a problem for some, especially +P+. Will keep 38 spl brass at +P or less. Forgot about the crud ring build up as well. Will need to see how bad or tough it is to mess with. Using cast Mihec 357-125 HP's which might make things worse. Optional PB gas checks I sometimes use might help. Also use Quickload and chrono to dial things in.
 
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The accuracy benefit of 357 brass over 38 special brass will never be seen in a revolver being fired offhand at typical handgun distances by 98%+ of the shooters in the world.

The reason all hand loads for my 357s are in 357 cases is the crud that builds up in-front of the case mouth as riverrat38 has already pointed out.

While this is seldom a problem, I have seen folks shoot tons of cheap gunshow 38s for practice and then load up some full power 357s so they keep the feel of what there revolver does. This is usually as they finish their range session.

On occasion the 357s are very hard to extract. I have used the shooting bench to hit the ejector rod to get their empties to clear

If you stick to 357 cases you rule out this possibility completely.
 
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What am I missing here?
Click to expand...
For me it boils down to:

1) old frame vs. new frame
2) forged parts vs. MIM
3) .38 Spl vs. .357 Mag
4) pre-lock vs. lock
5) used vs. new​

With that decision matrix, I'd go with the -4. I prefer the classic look of the old frame (replaceable cylinder stop stud, four line address, most had the standard latch). The strength and tradition of forged parts (firing pin on hammer, flash chromed H & T). Don't put much premium on .357 (I have small Mags, don't really need another). Hate the lock. Willing to take a chance on an older gun (to get the features I like) and forego the Lifetime Service Policy. Also knowing, going forward, any replacement parts will be harder or impossible to get.

There's real value in the LSP, but it's not a factor if they're both used. Parts for the -15 are going to be more readily available. The old frame has been obsolete for almost 20 years and many parts are already in short supply and will never be made again. (The recent gun buying "hysteria" has emptied the shelves of most common spare parts that were once afforadble and easy to find).

So, for me looks and tradition are big factors. Others may not put as much value in that. The -15 can shoot .357 and a new one would come with a LSP. Those a pluses making the -15 a viable choice for some.
 
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Weight on my 60-4 with Altamont oversize grips and loaded with 5 158 grain 38 rounds is 27ozs on the nose. Hope this helps. The original grip on the 60-4 was an Uncle Mikes oversize rubber grip. Unloaded the unit weighs 24.5 ozs.
 
A lot of guys will tell you that there's no reason to buy a .357 if you're typicaly going to carry with +P. By the same line of thought, why not buy a car that can only go 65mph if that is the speed limit where you drive. Why buy a big screen TV if you can still see the small one. Why own a pistol capable of chambering more than one type of ammo since it is unlikely that there will ever be a shortage, right. I am sure that nothing could ever happen to make you wish you had a magnum.
 
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I would have originally preferred a 60-4, simply based on what others say, and 38spl would have been fine given that is what it is. But $450 for this 60-15 available now, or $600 to $800 for a 60-4 that I've been looking for more than a year (FTF), and..... spent the $450.. I have a Shield 40 for carry, and getting an XDs 45 later today in a trade, so the 60-4 did not need to be a carry piece for me.

Just picked up the 60-15 and did some measurements.
Happy with the purchase to fill the 3" J-Frame hole.

Weight empty 23.6oz
Cylinder length 1.594in
Cylinder width (5 shot, measured smallest) 1.275in
Top strap thickness .190in
Top strap width .533in

And useless without photos..
 

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