I fish and hunt in both California and Oregon. I am considering getting a S&W 686+ 4" 357 (and not a S&W 44 magnum) as the largest creature I might encounter would be a black bear.

Do any of you have strong opinions on what I should get? Many thanks.

I fish and hunt in both California and Oregon. I am considering getting a S&W 686+ 4" 357 (and not a S&W 44 magnum) as the largest creature I might encounter would be a black bear.

Do any of you have strong opinions on what I should get? Many thanks.

Wow, yet ANOTHER bear thread asking the same question! Must be bear season?

A .357 will work if you are accurate.

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No good deed goes unpunished.

Consider a Glock model 20 in 10MM. On a side note, California would rather a bear eat you then you shoot a bear, or mountain lion, or leave any lead around that a Condor may consider ingesting...

357 is ok

41mag is better

44mag is even better

I carried the 357mag on my land.

I've read that a 6" .357 loaded with 180gr Buffalo Bore ammo will get velocities over most .44 mag ammo. Super hot and designed by BB specifically for bears.

I lived in Northern California (Humboldt County) for 30 years. Yep, no doubt about it, if you get into the back country up there, you're going to run into a black bear. It's not a matter of if...it's a matter of when.

Ninety-nine percent of the time, they want to avoid you as much as you want to avoid them. However, there's always the chance you may meet up with one that "woke up on the wrong side of the bed."

I always carried a Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt, loaded usually with 240-grain semi-jacketed hollow cavities that would travel at around 940 fps. Occasionally I'd load it a little hotter, but I never felt under-gunned.



To answer your original question though...a .357 would probably do what you want, but given the choice, I'd probably opt for the .44 magnum. There's just something about a big ol' chunk of lead that seems to command attention and make you stand up and say, "Howdy!"

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Pack light and cinch tight.

If I was going to carry a .357magnum for bears, I would probably load it with some 180gr solids. Obviously a .44mag would be better but it seems like lately the mountain lion attacks have been more of a problem than bear attacks, for the last 10 years or so here in CA.

Either one will probably kill it eventually, but not before it
makes you its last meal. JMHO.

Stu

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NRA Benefactor/Cert Instructor

Or a 500 S&W Magnum is best......

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Only difference Fool/Mule-ears

How about a Magnum Research BFR 45/70 revolver? Seriously, if I was concerned about bears, I would be armed with a rifle, and I don't mean a .22.

A 357 magnum is ok, a 41 magnum is better, a 44 magnum is best.

I carry my 357 magnum on my land in the green mountains in Vermont in the heart of black bear country.

When I was younger and logging full time I'd wrestle the bears and unzip there fur coats for my misses. Lol.

Now in grizzly country it's a whole different story. S&w 500?

A number of years ago we had a problem with a Big Black Bear (BBB) in our yard repeatedly. At that time the only handgun I had was a.380 and I put it in one of the kitchen drawers next to the back door. My wife wasn't happy about that. Telling my brother about it - he's the real hunter in our family - he said "that's just going to make him mad ! Don't you have a shotgun? 12ga slug will knock down an elephant."

rolomac

Not a strong opinion, but if I were buying a gun specifically for bear protection, it'd be a .44, or the Glock 10mm I saw someone mention.
If it's for other purposes as well, a .357 should do the job.

I saw the reference to hunting. I've always been of the opinion if you can't stop a bear with an HP rifle or shotgun, a handgun isn't going to do you much good.

Without a doubt a 4", shoulder carried, .44 magnum.

this is a tired subject. For backpacking take whatever you like because hostile black bear encounters are very rare. I most ofter hear them bellow or growl in a distance and head for the hills. They seem to so much more afraid of us then we are of them. Taking a SP 101 in 357 would be fine if that is what you have. Just be smart and keep food out of your tent and food strung up a high tree. It seems that here in Oregon 2 footed creatures are more dangerous than BBs.

Camp and travel smart. If you do not know how to do that read, read and read. Bear spray works well too!

If you are hunting for bear take a 41 or 44 or better. If you are hunting in weed infested illegal ranges think about a semi-auto for two footed predators. Or, just carry a 30-30. JMTC.

"They seem to so much more afraid of us then we are of them."

Unless it's a sow with a cub, then all bets are off...
And where I hunt, that's what I have on the camera several times...
Don't want to piss off mama....

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Only difference Fool/Mule-ears

OK, I'll play.

I'm happy with a 1911 Colt for the black bear we see here in Colorado.

My choice...heavy load in a .45 Colt revolver! Did I win?

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No good deed goes unpunished.

I live in Oregon also. Black bears aren't much of a problem, Cougars either. But carry what you shoot the best be it 357, 41 or 44. Just stay out of the green patches, the planters are worse than the animals.

When I go hiking in the California mountains all I have is a model 38 in my pocket. If I run into a mean hungry bear I may become dinner.

Many years ago, Jeff Cooper mentioned a little book that Colt published in the 1930's. I found a copy in a collectors' gun shop, "Colt on the Trail."

In it, a man told how he shot a nasty bear known locally as, "Old Patch." He used a .45 auto and had to empty the magazine and load four (?) more rounds loose into the chamber to get the job done. He wasn't carrying spare loaded magazines. He presumably used factory FMJ ammo. There wasn't a lot of variety in factory ammo then. I think a .45 auto is marginal.

In the book, a British lady living in India shot a sloth bear with her husband's New Service revolver in .45 Colt. It worked fine. I think she fired more than once, aiming at the base of the white V" mark on the bear's chest. Sloth bears are mean customers and this one caught her as she came down a tree and hadn't recovered her rifle, which I guess was being lowered on a rope from a machan. She was wearing the N.S. and it saved her life.

Another personal account involved a man in Newfoundland with a Colt SAA in (I think) .44-40. He also killed a bear, firing at a distance. I think this was at about 85 yards and was probably ill advised. But he got the bear.

In many of the prior bear threads here, I've told about the Montana game warden who was attacked by a grizzly. It had him down and he opened fire with his service weapon, a S&W M-66 with unknown 158 grain 357 ammo. The sixth shot hit the heart and killed the bear. This was witnessed by an outdoor editor or two and some biologists trying to move the sedated bear. I think it woke too soon, and grabbed the nearest man, the warden. His first five shots were fired in a panic and were not fatal. Then he settled down and shot for a vital organ. Or maybe he just got lucky.

I know of two bears killed with knives. One attacked an angler in midstream. He killed it with his belt knife and a search later found eight human bodies that this bear had stashed in a food cache.

Most PREDATORY bear attacks are by blacks, not by grizzlies. This is not well understood by the public, who think black bears are shy.

Cougars are also a danger and anything that'll kill a bear will kill a cougar.

I have a box of Remington 165 grain .357 ammo meant expressly for hunting. I don't know if they still load it. I have it in case I find myself where I might need to shoot a bear or an alligator. It'd do for cougar, too, but if they were the main worry, I'd be content with Federal's 158 grain Hydra-Shok .357 loads.

A .357 and the ammo are much easier to carry than a .44 Magnum, but if I was really worried about bears, I'd probably use the .44. But that's ONLY if one can shoot one well. I happen to know that I can, but that my recoil and blast limit are reached at the .44 Magnum. If I think I need more, I carry a rifle. Alas, carrying a rifle or shotgun out of hunting season is illegal in some jurisdictions, and can get you in trouble with the game and fish cops. In Newfoundland while fishing, my only weapon was a Randall Model 3 knife with six-inch blade. I was very glad not to have encountered any bears or angry moose. I was only there because that's where the USAF sent me. I wouldn't willingly fish where I couldn't carry a handgun or more. But the RCMP corporal with whom I interfaced in police work warned me that there was no way to legally carry my .45, let alone the .270 or the .303, except during legal hunting seasons. No legal pistol carry at all! (Off base. I did carry on duty and sometimes took my Gold Cup .45 down to a remote area on base and practiced there. BTW, I fired a few rounds of .270 and .303 into soft earth or mud and the resulting craters were impressive. That's probably what happens inside an animal shot with a rifle. Sobering!)

BTW, I read a true account where two doctors hunting in Alaska were dressing out a caribou or moose when a big grizzly went for them. They'd foolishly set their rifles some distance away and a Ruger Super Blackhawk stainless .44 Magnum was the only gun within reach. It sufficed. I don't recall if the man who wrote up the incident mentioned the exact ammunition.

Go to the zoo and the natural history museum and study bear anatomy. Watch zoo bears as they walk, turn, stand, and maybe scuffle. Think where the vital points would be on that bear if you had to shoot it.

I appreciate your replies. The suggestion of going to a zoo and/or museum I will do. Many thanks!

I often enough SEE black bear. But they're usually heading in the opposite direction muttering about all the pesky humans. I figure the probabilities are higher of having confrontation with pot growers and meth cookers. I figure I can do better with .44 or .45 in confrontation with human evil doers , than confronting a bear with 9mm or .38+P .

Choice 1: Glock 20/21 converted to.460 Rowland with long slide, 6.61" barrel, and compensator + 255 grain hard cast flat point slugs - 1,000+ lb-ft of energy.
Choice 2: Glock 20 10mm with 6" barrel loaded with Underwood's 220 grain hard cast at 700 lb-ft of kinetic energy (700 lb-ft is based on 4.6" barrel - 6.6" will be over 800 lb-ft).

IF you're a revolver die-hard
Choice 1: Smith and Wesson M500 4" loaded with 440 grain hard cast at 2,000-2,200 lb-ft of kinetic energy. The M500 is a FABULOUS field choice as it can be belt carried, fits almost all hands well, uses an EFFECTIVE compensator, and is capable of delivering huge slugs that will absolutely destroy a bear's skull on impact, and/or shoot clean through.

Choice 2: S&W M460V 5" loaded with Underwood 360 grain hard cast...not quite the brute powerhouse the .500 is, but with the right slug a monster capable of over 2,000 lb-ft of KE.

Choice 3: S&W M29 4-6" (6" is is ballistically better), loaded with a good 300+ grain hard cast slug. It's no secret that people have carried the M29 into the field, stoked with heavy, "solids" for DECADES and effectively dealt with pretty much ANYTHING.

I do NOT "recommend" a Single Action for "defensive" use because they are too slow to load....rounds must be ejected one-by-one, and loaded one-by-one....NOT a good place to be compared to using a speed loader or Moon clip - especially if your revolver is required to do multiple duty and deal with 2-legged predators.

If you choose to go revolver, carry your spare ammo either in speed loaders, or sent off your cylinder to TK Customs to be machined for Moon clips. Do not EVER try to single-load cartridges in the field under attack if you HAD the choice ahead of time to have speed loaders or moon clips.

The .460 Rowland in a Glock 20/21 with 6.6" barrel and comp with deliver in excess of 1,000 lb-ft of KE with 255 grain hard cast slugs...which, when multiplied over 11 shots (CA legal) is 11,000+ lb-ft of KE.
An S&W M500 4" delivering 2,000 lb-ft per shot has a total energy delivery of 10,000 lb-ft, though EACH SHOT is a massive strike that NO bear in California or anywhere else can accept and keep coming!

For "defensive" use against a sudden bear encounter I do NOT recommend the .357 Magnum....but IF you want to carry a long barrel version - at least 6" or more, stoked with at least 180 grain hard cast slugs loaded as hot as possible it's a doable.

Thanks Texas Star, I need to find a copy of that book.

When my wife wanted to hunt deer I had her take Hunter Safety, I gave her a custom rifle which she spurned and stole my pre 64 M-70 Win, I had her practice until she can hit targets every shot.

With her and my daughter and grandkids I use a small plastic deer. With it you can hold it at different angles to see how to get the bullet thru the vitals every time. PAper punching is not enough. Perhaps you need to hit at the last rib to get to the far shoulder. This allows folks to think 3-D on the bullet path.

What does this have to do with the bear question? I own a 4" 629 and practice with it. I have a Python and a 27-2 in 3.5". I practice with each. Owning any handgun/gun is totally worthless if one does not practice which enables one to miss.

If a 44 is too stout go to a 4" 686 357 with a premium bullet that will penetrate. Think Elmer Keith rather than a quick opening defense load. I am a revolver guy except for 1911's, but I will have to wash my mouth out with soap for uttering this, but GLOO Gloo Glock does make a 10mm that will give you about 12 shots. But you still have to hit it.

Study, you can take the bear tests required by most western states so you know if you are dealing with a Black or Griz.
Study, there are ways to extract yourself, backing up etc.

Have you ever fired at a fast moving target coming towards you? Have you ever shot at moving targets with a pistol? Practice will get you closer to surviving. And carry a good sharp belt knife. Do you know where a bears carotid artery is? Study up.

And with the pistol you are not shooting at the whole bear. You are shooting at a known spot that will take him out. Pick out a hair and hit it.

Actually if you can take me to the exact place where the bear wants to eat you I'll go with you. Short inhale, exhale a little, squeeze aiming at the the exact spot that will give you the penetration and direction you want the bullet to go. And keep shooting until it goes down.

Looks like Hans and I were typing at the same time, I like his entry. Notice he repeats HARD CAST bullets? He is referring to Elmer Keith type loads that penetrate. I like that.

I have grown up believing .44 mag MINIMUM for brown/grizzly, and that a .357 is all you need for black bears. I believe it! They aren't as big, or as fatty, again this is all I have been told.

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Still just a kid at heart

It is amazing to me the number of people that are telling what to carry but none of them start with "I used a____ to kill a bear."

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Retired Marine Gunny

You are SO RIGHT gunny! Lot's of opinions on here that aren't backed up with anything more than lip-smacking!

The last bear I killed was with a 300 Win Mag, but I had a 44 Magnum on my belt during the hunt.

Does that make a valid argument for the 44 Magnum? No, but it is a caliber which gives me comfort in the bear woods.

Most of us who carry a sidearm in the woods will likely never need it. Mine isn't there for hunting so it will not be used on a bear unless all else fails. However, having spent time with those who have needed their sidearm I feel confident in my choice.

OBTW, your point is valid. Some opinions on matters of the wild are developed after many years of never setting foot there.

Edmo

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TRUTH: Don't delete my posts!

.357 is fine, provided you use the right bullet (the BB round mentioned is excellent) with proper shot placement. Stay away from lighter and hollowpoint rounds. They tend not to sufficiently penetrate. Stick with a heavy for caliber hardcast or JSP. Having taken a bear with a .357, though, I'd opt for the .44.

About two weeks ago, a hiker was killed by a black bear at a popular nature park in northeastern NJ.

Others here have given excellent recommendations for black bear medicine and there's nothing productive I can add to it, except to make sure it's with you.

Nothing to add except the bit about "reloading" under pressure. That is "BULL"=you won't have time to shoot more than twice (if lucky!) at a bear. They are too fast. (I've been charged once)

Remember, ANY handgun is inadequate. You are just trying to get things closer to even.

BTW: Cali has some big black bears. Two of mine were 400+ and a 660 and 700 lb bear were shot during my study (1 with a bow).

Otherwise, all pretty good advice.

Caught off guard with a black bear attack?

Run as fast as you want too screaming as loud as you can.
This worked for my wife to save our dog from the bear. I won't of done it. I would of adopted another smarter dog.

Climb a tree as fast as you can with no gun.

That's ridiculous. I cited actual cases, one in particular with a number of witnesses, and the account was written in either, Sports Afield or, Outdoor Life, by an editor who was an actual witness to the incident.

The doctor who recorded his account in, Sporting Classics also seemed a reliable source. And Bob Petersen and others killed bears with handguns before witnesses.

Those who deny these cases and just say that they are "anecdotal" are cynics who just don't want to believe.

Oh: I forgot to mention the Norwegian scientist who had to shoot a polar bear with a S&W .44 Magnum. This incited a bunch of irate letters to, National Geographic from readers who were brainwashed by animal huggers. I found that disgusting. The man's life was in grave danger.

BTW, Cooper listed the polar bear among the animals that he thought will attack men as a species more than as individual rogues. In other words, ANY polar bear is a potential man-eater. I agree. He also cited the Nile and saltwater crocodiles and certain sharks. I think he was correct.

You might want to ask the bears.

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Any animal could attack us at anytime rabid or what ever. A rabid animal would give you a run for your money if caught off guard.

I've seen the yotes circle my trailer at night as the campfire burned low. First there was one, then two, then three, each new one joined on each lap till the whole pack was circling. These yotes are the size of female German shepherds. I noticed an increase in there size over three decades ago. I questioned it to deaf ears. Then there's an article out about the wolves from Canada crossing into the USA from upper NY state and there interbreeding with our yotes making a wolf/yote type animal.

My point is this new wolf/yote type animal is more likely to attack us than a bear. If given the situation.

I believe in the future more mountainlion attacks will occur where people swear there are no mountainlions. Because they never seen one. These tree huggers just don't know. After seeing mountainlion tracks in the green mountains in the fresh fallen snow it took me over a decade to finally see one.

A mountainlion stalks us from behind as a predator will.

I worry more about a mountainlion attack then a black bear attack. Ever watch a house cat with a mouse. With a mountainlion were the mouse.

I'm not afraid I'm cautious.

An acquaintance was out last year in Western Oregon during hunting season. He heard a shot and a few minutes later a black bear charged him out of the brush. He emptied his .44 magnum at it and it died at his feet. Another hunter had wounded it with a rifle and four of his .44 magnum rounds hit it. It weighed around 150 pounds.

A friend and his adult son were hunting last season in Eastern Oregon. His son walked across a small meadow to a large fallen tree. A 300 pound black bear stood up directly across the tree from him. He shot it with his .30-06 rifle. The bear was screaming and trying to run around the meadow to get behind him. It took two more shots from the .30-06 to finally drop the bear.

I carry one my S&W 29-2 .44 magnums in bear country.

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U.S. Navy - U.S. Army, ret

Well, I wasn't going to respond to this, yet another, bear thread. But, in light of the above comment I will.

Yes, I have been there and done that. 225 pound female black bear ( rather small as they can go) made unwanted advances and I had to put it down. Distance = about 30' when I first shot. Weapon = S&W model 66, 6", .357 magnum loaded with Buffalo Bore 180 grain hard cast. Shot placement = top of the head (she came at me head down). Number of shots = 2. Result = DRT.

Yes, my .357 was more than adequate and saved my bacon. But, I tell you this, if you are ever charged by a predator that can easily kill and eat you, you will wish you had the biggest weapon you can get your hands on. Thoughts of "OK, I'm good, my gun is adequate and will take care of it" just don't exist.

End result = My woods gun is now a S&W model 69, .44 Magnum and when in the woods I load it with Buffalo Bore 240 grain +P ammo. Why? Because, at my age, that's the biggest and strongest thing I can handle proficiently.

Bob

I look at it in terms of frame size ... if a smaller frame (K/L) is preferred over the N-frame, then .357 will suffice unless a Model 696 can be obtained. If it's exclusively an N-frame consideration, then I would opt for the larger caliber every time. It doesn't make much sense not to have more horsepower in the same frame size.

While I have a 624 snub (.44 Sp) and Ruger Alaskan (.44 Mag) for hiking and critter protection, I recently acquired a 520 (.357 Mag) that I will take with me sooner than later. The only other choice I would like to go with is a 4" Super Redhawk when finances permit.

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I'm with the banned ...

Well made point, Voyager.
I don't think the small arm has been made that would give me a sense of comfort in brown bear country

Just wondering: how did our forefathers avoid being eaten before big, powerful handguns?

Maybe we can start calling these "YABT" for short.

No bears in my neck of the woods but feral hogs abound. I don't carry for protection but to kill every dang one I see.

I also think about running into a wounded bear. Some hunters think they can place a shot anywhere and kill it. My uncle warned me many decades if you don't have a good kill shot let it go. Don't wound it.

With black bears most of the time if there not boxed in and have a way out they will run away from you. A mountainlion will stalk you.

I have to say it kind of cracks me up when a guy asks whether he should get a 357 or a 44, and people start chiming in with 10mm or 41 Mag. We gun guys think we are so smart......

I guess I think a 44 would be a better choice for bear medicine, and the Model 69 is an L frame just like the 686, so similar weight/bulk. But a 357 is certainly a viable choice and I suppose it would depend somewhat on what other purposes I might have in mind for the gun. Home defense? A 357 makes lots more sense. A range or plinking gun? Again, unless you handload a 357 is a much better option. If the gun is going to be used for the singular purpose of bear protection, get the 44.

I would prefer a 44 mag super Blackhawk it has more knockdown power than any of the othersI hunted in Northwest for about five years and always caredOne with me


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I was in an Apple orchard in the highest corner over looking the Apple trees bear hunting with my 30-06. On my left was the 4' to 6' high grass. This was part of the national forest which was an old farm on a mountain side. We're in the upper Apple orchard. As things settled down and became quiet after a bird Hunter left we had a bear coming straight at us in the high grass. He was very close to me within 20' or so. When a little bird go in the Apple tree near me and sang a tune to the bear, danger, danger go back. The bear turned back and stayed in the thick brush and made a large U turn around the orchard till he got behind us. He stayed in the thick cover the whole time.

Ever hear the bird noise pick up as we walk in the forest? It's nature's alarm system. My point is this alarm system works both ways.

How is that Glock would make any difference?

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Guns ...

I've never had an opportunity with a bear, but I have dropped a 380lb charging boar hog at 20 yds with a 6" model 66 loaded with PMC Simi - jacketed flat nose 158gr.?

I am retired from an East coast state game and fisheries department. The state has a large black bear population. The current sidearm is a Glock in 40 S&W. A colt m4, or an option of 12 gauge. All three have been used to dispatch bears. I am fine with a .357. I carry a .380 and it would be possible to encounter a bear at anytime. Bear attacks are very rare unless the bear has been fed by humans. Fed bear is a dead bear.

Personal experience; .357 just made it mad and maybe hurt. Bear spray works best. Next time if there ever is one nothing less than .44 Mag in nothing less than a 6" barrel. IMHO.

I'd start with some bear spray.


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