Any opinions on the 351 PD 22 mag?

Just wonder if anyone has any experiance with these.

I've shot one a little bit. Almost no recoil and very light, although the DA pull was stiff even for a J-frame.

Vigil617 should be along soon, he has one and can tell you more about it.

Perhaps you saw that a couple of these had been listed for sale on that big site recently -- the first ones I've seen lately since buying my own a couple of months ago. There are 351C models on there all the time, but (apparently) like most folks, I preferred the option of having SA, even though it's a snubbie. As you can see, you're in the six to seven bills range on the 351PDs, used, but I think they are worth it.

I use mine for EDC and find that it's perfect for my needs. Mine came with Crimson Trace grips on it which, although I wouldn't have bought a pair and installed them to replace factory wood or laminate stocks, I have found they make the pistol as slim and light as it can possibly be. It's 11 oz. unloaded and not much more than that with 7 rounds of 22 JHP SD ammo in place.

Shorty45Mk2 is a more experienced revolver hand than I am, and since he says the DA pull is stiff even for a J-frame, I'll defer to him on that. I find that I can place all seven shots on a pie plate at 3 and 5 yards in DA with no problem, so for SD purposes I think this little revolver fits a real niche. In SA mode, the trigger pull is feather-light (2-3 pounds, I would guess). In both actions, accuracy is good too.

If I were regularly in situations where I would likely encounter danger, I would probably opt for a larger caliber for EDC, but my lifestyle now is more than adequately protected by the high-performing SD ammo available now for 22 mag snubbies. These have been rated around 1,000fps muzzle velocity from the 2" barrel, with at least 12" of penetration in ballistic gel -- very comparable to 38 Special.

I use Speer Gold Dot hollow point ("GDHP") 40 grain, or Hornady Critical Defense JHP in 45 grain. The CCI "Choot 'Em" 40 grain JHP rounds are fine as well, and a bit less expensive than the others -- 30 cents per round versus mid-30s to around 40 cents for the premium ammo.

You can go bigger in both caliber and frame size, but for EDC, the important thing is, "will you carry it every day?" I answer that question with the 351 PD since it is truly a front-pocket pistol. My only issue has been that in jeans pockets, the CT grip shows just a bit outside the pocket, and I probably need to put deeper pockets in the ones I wear. In casual or dress pants, though, it disappears and is balanced by the weight of cellphone and keys in my other pocket.

It's still very accurate with the heavier trigger. (The hammer spring has to be heavier to reliably ignite the primer in the rim.)

Also I think it's better in a way over the super light .357's and .38's since you don't have to worry about bullet jump.

And the best reason you "need" one is its a J-frame!

22Mag is extremely loud out of such a short barrel. It sounds like a much larger caliber. Given the very short barrel length, you lose so much performance that it DOESN'T give you any advantage over a 22lr. And 22lr is much cheaper to shoot than 22mag. I would buy the 43C instead for sure.

22mag is really not useful out of a barrel shorter than 4", truly 6", but you can get away with 4". There is so much unburnt powder flying out of the end of the barrel it is crazy and again, seems like a much bigger caliber when fired out of such a short barrel.

I may have a chance to pick up a used one with some ammo for $500.
I don't normally buy fixed sight guns, but I'm gussing it may be a good buy. Am I right?
Don't plan on carrying it, so it will be just another toy.
Are there any known flaws to look for on this model?

I had one, but it didn't work for me. The DA pull is heavier than the weight of the gun, which is a bad ratio: really difficult to shoot well as a carry gun.
Very noisy and dirty. Felt like I crawled out of a coal mine after a few cylinders of ammo. It's as if more powder is not burned, than burned, and the resultant soot is no joke.
Seems like a great idea, but the reality is another matter.

HarrishMasher said:

22Mag is extremely loud out of such a short barrel. It sounds like a much larger caliber. Given the very short barrel length, you lose so much performance that it DOESN'T give you any advantage over a 22lr. And 22lr is much cheaper to shoot than 22mag. I would buy the 43C instead for sure.

22mag is really not useful out of a barrel shorter than 4", truly 6", but you can get away with 4". There is so much unburnt powder flying out of the end of the barrel it is crazy and again, seems like a much bigger caliber when fired out of such a short barrel.

Click to expand...

This is just plain wrong. But to each his own, and if 22mag isn't for you, it isn't for you. Factually, however, the ballistics of 22mag out of a short barrel, with ammo designed for that barrel, far exceed 22lr.

nsl said:

I may have a chance to pick up a used one with some ammo for $500.
I don't normally buy fixed sight guns, but I'm gussing it may be a good buy. Am I right?
Don't plan on carrying it, so it will be just another toy.
Are there any known flaws to look for on this model?

Click to expand...

Your guess is correct. (FWIW, these have a Hi-Viz front sight that gathers light and glows a bright orange, making sight acquisition very rapid.

As for the above-mentioned dirtiness of the ammo, this is something I have not noticed with the premium ammos I have shot in mine. "Crawled out of a coal mine" after a few cylinders' worth? Don't know what he's shooting but it's not good stuff I will guarantee you.

Yes, 22lr is cheaper, but look to be able to purchase good SD ammo for 30 to 40 cents a round is not a bad situation to be in. If it's just going to be a "toy" as you say, I'd still encourage you to run it with good ammo, but that's up to you.

There is no crappy .22 Mag ammo, it's always been a premium round. I wasn't the only one to comment on how dirty it is, and if you like it, fine.
But don't get all snippy because someone isn't bobbing their head in total agreement with all your grand pronouncements.

vigil617 said:

This is just plain wrong. But to each his own, and if 22mag isn't for you, it isn't for you. Factually, however, the ballistics of 22mag out of a short barrel, with ammo designed for that barrel, far exceed 22lr.

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Here is the evidence from NAA. The dedicated makers of short barrel 22lr and 22mag revolvers. Very little difference:

Here is the .22mag
http://www.naaminis.com/magvel.html

Here is the .22lr
http://www.naaminis.com/llrvlnew.html

Not sure what your sources are but I will go with this.

Actually it looks like they pulled the tables down. I think I know why

Just google "22 mag vs 22lr short barrel" and you will find all the evidence you need.

vigil617 said:

This is just plain wrong. But to each his own, and if 22mag isn't for you, it isn't for you. Factually, however, the ballistics of 22mag out of a short barrel, with ammo designed for that barrel, far exceed 22lr.

Click to expand...

Well, here are some chrono figures from a .22 magnum Hi-Standard D-101:

Win 40 grain HP
avg: 1099
hi: 1225
low: 1024

Hornady 45 grain FTX
avg: 1070
hi: 1190
low: 946

Speer Gold Dot 40 grain
avg: 1132
hi: 1243
low: 960
****

Walther TPH .22 lr

Win Super-X HP
avg: 886
hi: 910
low: 850

Stinger solid
avg: 992
hi: 1009
low: 973

***

I'm not in this fight, just thought I'd offer up some data. .22 mag was a bit spread out in velocity numbers from that little D-101. Chrono was an old Oehler of mine. Did the tests in 2012, summer. Oh, yeah, ten round strings of fire.

Rich

I almost bought one used for a good price, but decided not to. I figured the performance wasn't better enough to live with the extra noise over the .22lr.

Also it is the same size as it's .357 brother the 340pd so I went with it.
As much as I love the .22mag cartridge, for me it is not a snub nose revolver cartridge.

RichCapeCod said:

Well, here are some chrono figures from a .22 magnum Hi-Standard D-101:

Win 40 grain HP
avg: 1099
hi: 1225
low: 1024

Hornady 45 grain FTX
avg: 1070
hi: 1190
low: 946

Speer Gold Dot 40 grain
avg: 1132
hi: 1243
low: 960
****

Walther TPH .22 lr

Win Super-X HP
avg: 886
hi: 910
low: 850

Stinger solid
avg: 992
hi: 1009
low: 973

***

I'm not in this fight, just thought I'd offer up some data. .22 mag was a bit spread out in velocity numbers from that little D-101. Chrono was an old Oehler of mine. Did the tests in 2012, summer. Oh, yeah, ten round strings of fire.

Rich

Click to expand...

Exactly, and there are dozens of other High Velocity 22lr choices out there that will get you 1000 fps out of the tiny barrel all which basically equal the 22mag velocity out of the same barrel length.

The bullet from the 22lr weighs the same and goes at the same speed as the bullet from the 22Mag. So why would you want all the extra noise, blast and flash from the 22 Mag for the exact same thing and pay more to do it?

And when I say extra noise, blast and flash, it is not just extra, it is a whole lot more, like 2 to 3 times more.

Choosing a 22mag over a 22lr in a 1 7/8" barrel just makes absolutely no sense to me. I cannot find one single advantage.

HarrishMasher said:

Choosing a 22mag over a 22lr in a 1 7/8" barrel just makes absolutely no sense to me. I cannot find one single advantage.

Click to expand...

But it says MAGNUM on the box...

I like mine. One thing I didn't see mentioned was that .22 magnum ammunition is jacketed, not plated like .22 long rifles, which should give it better penetration. Of course, neither it nor a howitzer can penetrate a closed mind. Some people just love to hate the .22 magnum, I figure to each his or her own.

I see a lot of people who've never shot (or been shot by ) anything more vicious than a charging watermelon who have rabid opinions about the best bullet, caliber, etc. First thing to remember is, have a gun.

Bullet Bob said:

I like mine. One thing I didn't see mentioned was that .22 magnum ammunition is jacketed, not plated like .22 long rifles, which should give it better penetration. Of course, neither it nor a howitzer can penetrate a closed mind. Some people just love to hate the .22 magnum, I figure to each his or her own.

I see a lot of people who've never shot (or been shot by ) anything more vicious than a charging watermelon who have rabid opinions about the best bullet, caliber, etc. First thing to remember is, have a gun.

Click to expand...

I love 22 Mag and find any excuse I can to buy a firearm chambered for it. Just not one with a very short barrel. It is just horrible in a short barrel. All the noise and blast is really quite shocking, you might mistake it for a howitzer!

Amen to that, brother Bob.

I always stay away from the "would you like to be shot by it?" argument because no sane person would want to be shot by anything. Still, I am convinced from what I have seen that if I had to use this in self defense, I am willing to bet that it will do the job. That's not making any grand pronouncement; just stating an opinion that I believe is backed up by the data.

I have the 351C and I'm quite happy with the performance. The Speer Gold Dots are very effective. Accuracy is acceptable even with the super heavy DAO trigger. The weight is ideal for pocket carry. 7 is more than 5.

I've had mine for awhile now. It comes with all the rimfire blues. Heavy trigger pull, loud, and no real way of a trigger job that will guarantee it will fire all the time.

BUT, I love mine. I did a post some time back on the ammo accuracy. Mine loves Gold Dots, ok with Winchester PDX, but does not group Hornady Critical Defense well. These three rounds were built for guns like these and there is minimal muzzle flash. I've also shot CCI Mags and there's a huge flash but its somewhat accurate with these. I keep mine loaded with a few rounds of snake shot first that Gold Dots. Haven't had to use it, but I bought it for walking the dog (skunks, desperate red foxes and rabies abound in my neck of the county. It's super light, fits in my pocket holster to where I really don't feel it. Also is nice in my paddle holster for the walks.

If you want one, buy it! They are a little hard to find right now.

Chris