S&W Model 60 (.38 special) Ammunition

legelegel

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I have had a S&W Model 60 (1.875 in.) since the late 1970s. I was told it would be a mistake to sell it and buy a S&W Model 60 (.357), because the +p ammo would not be that far below the power of .357 magnum load in a 2 inch barrel.

Is +p ammo in my S&W Model 60 a waste of money, a waste of additional power and a waste of control

What are the ballistics comparisons of +p and .357?

What do you think of these combinations of carry and practice ammos?

1. Carry a 125-130gr JHP+P and practice with a 158 gr ball or LRN which closely match the recoil impulse of the defensive load.

2. Carry "high priced spread" and practice with 148 gr wadcutters.

3. Carry 158gr LSWC, LSWCHP +P (Hollow Point) or the Remington R38S12.
 
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While not a all steel gun like your model 60 I can't tell much if any difference in recoil with non +P vs +P in my 642. I do carry +p just to help get an extra little FPS to help with expansion.

I'd carry the same or close to the same weight bullet as the practice ammo. (135+p and 130-135 practice.)

Here's a good write up on +P ammo by a forum member, although not quite in the light as you're talking about but still might be helpful.
Shooting with Hobie

Ballistically there's a big debate on the effectiveness of .357 out of a snub barrel compared to .38 special with both sides firmly set in their position. (Think .45 vs 9mm.) Personal I think if you are going to carry .357 you should practice with .357.
 
When fired in my stainless 640 J frame I've found that not all 357 ammo is created equal...

The Hornady defensive ammo (125 gr Critical Defense 357) is very spirited, but manageable. However, I fired some Remington 357 125 grain semi-jacketed hollow points today and OUCH!!! I also fired some of their +P rounds with the same bullet.

These 357 rounds where very snappy while the +Ps were quite controllable. I'm not sure how much energy is wasted in blast and noise with the 357 rounds when compared to +P 38 rounds. However, follow up shots would be much easier with the +P rounds.

Edmo
 
Why punish yourself? :confused: A model 60 with +P ammo will do anything you need to do and it still hurts to shoot it! :rolleyes:
 
I don't believe that a limited number of +P .38 Special rounds will do any noticeable damage to any of the steel framed J Frames. I personally practice with +P rounds only enough to be familiar with them, to know how they function, feel, and where the POI is in relation to the sight picture. I do NOT use +P rounds lighter than 135 grains. My round of choice is the Speer Gold Dot 135 grain designed for short barrels. Next in line, so close as to be pretty much a tie, is the +P lead SWCHP rounds that have been available for a lot of years and made by several manufacturers. I am comfortable that these two rounds will provide more than sufficient energy and performance to trust them for my personal defense needs.

The .357 rounds, in any loading, may provide more velocity and energy (in any revolver) than the +P .38's, but from a short barrel, a fairly large percentage of the performance of a .357 round is lost when fired from a short barrel. In addition, the additional muzzle flash, the loud, sharp report, and the additional recoil and increased recovery time is just not worth it for me. If the +P .38 Special is enough (and for me, it is more than enough), why deal with the additional negatives when firing .357 Mags? Can it be done, accurately, and effectively? Sure it can. Each of us has his or her own levels of tolerance. I can do it. I just don't see the need, and I don't find the mag loads pleasant. If I were to decide to carry them, I would feel compelled to practice with them across the board. Years of seeing police qualifications and requalifications by officers who carried .357 Mags and who only ever used .38 Special wadcutter practice ammo for those qualifications proved to me that such practice is not conducive to good shooting when your carry gun is loaded with Mags. I have seen officers who could clean their targets (the old PPC qualification targets that included 24 rounds at 50 yards) who could barely or who failed to qualify if required to do so with Mag rounds. Most of them could have done so with some practice with Mag rounds, but they could not, in most cases, have been able to score as highly with the mag rounds as compared to the wadcutters. It takes serious practice to be proficient with either round, but especially the mag rounds.

In the early days of those qualifications, +P rounds were not available. I was present when the Super Vel rounds came on the market, and they changed the picture considerably, and for the better. Today's ammo selections are much, much better than anything we had available in those days without reloading for ourselves.

So I say that you can safely fire a limited amount of +P 38 Specials, enough to be entirely familiar and proficient with them and then carry them for "on duty" purposes. But I also recommend firing at least full power standard loads in the same bullet weight for practice, as opposed to target wadcutter loads. In fact, back in the day, many of us carried double ended wadcutter rounds, poured from lead that was harder than the target wadcutter rounds were made from and reloaded tp just less than about 1000 fps, so that leading was not a serious problem with the higher velocity rounds. These were very effective personal defense loads, and we used them for duty rounds as well (before it became anathema to carry personally reloaded ammunition while on duty.

If you are familiar with your Model 60 and you shoot it well, and unless you are willing to spend the time and the serious money to become proficient with the same platform firing .357 Mag ammo, I think you should spend the money for quality +P and standard pressure .38 Special ammo and go practice. My opinion only here ... I believe you will be well prepared for serious social encounters and will likely be able to deliver those rounds to the place where they will do the most serious damage in the bargain. I'm sure others will disagree with me. I'm just telling you what I'm comfortable with after many years of carrying, using, and being present at shootings and autopsies. Today, with the good ammo available, where the bullets land is more important than the caliber used. Use what you are comfortable with and what you can most effectively use for the purpose intended!!
 
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In approximately 1989, I was a U.S. Customs Agent, and I was issued a Model 60. It had been one of the original Skymarshal guns when the Treasury Department had the program.

I had no idea how many rounds had been fired through it before it was issued to me. I carried that Model 60 until I retired in 2005. I qualified with it quarterly, and usually shot approximately 100 rounds at qualification.

We had several manufactures of our ammunition. All was +P ammunition, from Federal, Winchester, Remingtion, and Speer. It all seemed to work very well, without too much recoil or muzzle blast.

When I retired in 2005, another agent took over my Model 60, and I wouldn't be surprised to hear it's still being carried today.
 
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