S&W 500 Magnum Has Very High Point of Impact

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KillerVzTwo

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Hello,

I recently purchased a 6.5 inch S&W Model 500. Me and a group of friends shot about 20 of 400gr Winchester Platinum Tip rounds out of it not really caring about accuracy, but more just for fun.
Today I took it to the range with a pistol rest to actually sight it in at 50 yards. I use handloaded 500gr Hornady FP-XTP bullets with 21.3 grains of Lil' Gun Powder (a moderate load that is very fun for range use) and the lowest I could get the point of impact was about 6 inches above bullseye while holding my sights a foot below bullseye. I have sighted in other handguns with no trouble, and figured my relatively heavy and slow moving ammo would be easy to sight in.
Is this something common with S&W 500s or do you think there is a mechanical error? Possibly with my vice or gun? I'd like to think not operator error :)

Sorry for the wall of text :(
 
Welcome! Everything else being equal, heavier and slower rounds will impact high due to greater dwell time in the barrel with firing. Did you have the same POI issue with the factory ammo?
 
I wish I could tell you, But we just shot all the factory loads at the 10 yard pistol targets just to check out the recoil and so I could reload the brass. My thinking was, a heavier slower bullet would not rise as much/would drop more than a lighter faster bullet, But your telling me that isn't the case? I've been reloading for a while but am no expert.
 
That is my understanding, but the ballistic experts will be along shortly.

By "rest", do you mean handheld or a machine like a Ransom Rest? Was the rear sight elevation set all the way to the bottom?
 
Its an Outers Pistol Perch. And yes the sight elevation was as low as possible. I slowly lowered it until it was at its lowest. At this point I started tiltling the angle the gun was at in the perch lower and lower until I hit paper by the time I got 3 on paper I was out of ammo :( I hadn't planned on it taking so much ammo.
 
Heavier will impact higher.

Does seem a little high to me.

Did your gun come with a second front sight?
 
It did not. and it does not seem to be one of the easily changed ones either. What exactly lends to a heavier bullet impacting higher? It seems counter-intuitive to me, but that's what I'm seeing many people are saying.
 
It is counter intuitive...

KillerVzTwo said:
It did not. and it does not seem to be one of the easily changed ones either. What exactly lends to a heavier bullet impacting higher? It seems counter-intuitive to me, but that's what I'm seeing many people are saying.
Click to expand...

A slow heavy bullet takes longer to get out of the barrel giving more time for backward flip.

Try using a light, high velocity bullet. That may shoot lower but you are talking about a BIG difference.:confused:

As far as technique goes, a common mistake is 'bury the front sight' in the split second before the round fires and shooting lower, but you are seeing the opposite. That's weird as a beard.
 
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But I didn't buy a 500 to shoot light rounds :) I should have 1 or 2 grains of wiggle room for powder while still keeping it subsonic. In my experience keeping a handgun at just under supersonic seriously helps with recoil and noise. I'll just have to try some slightly faster measures and see if that evens it out a bit.
 
I think what rwsmith was saying is to use a lighter bullet. With the same, or more powder, the lighter bullet will hit lower.

What height front sight do you have on your gun?

.
 
If me wanting to fire big rounds makes me have to aim 18 inches below my target so be it. It's not like it's my carry gun or anything :) I just wanted to make sure my gun didn't have some defect or something. Hopefully adding a little bit more powder will speed it up a little.

The top of my front sight is 1 inch from center of barrel.
 
The cause for your shooting high is a phenomenon called Bore Transit Recoil. Do a google search and read all about it, heavier than typical bullets in a handgun will always have a POI that is higher than a lighter bullet.

IMO the solution to your problem is a new front sight, even if you have to have one custom made. I expect that your 500 Magnum features the Interchangeable Front Sight so changing the sight blade out will be quite easy. Assuming a sight radius of 10 inches you will need a front sight 0.10 inch taller to correct for an 18 inch shift in the POI at 50 yards. To provide for a bit of adjustment with your rear sight you will probably want to go 0.14 inch taller. That should put the POI on center with the rear sight raised up by 0.04 inch. As for how to get there, I'd purchase an extra sight blade from S&W and have it built up by TIG welding the tip, a bit of cleanup with a file and some cold bluing and problem solved.
 
Thanks for the tips on the sights, but as far as bore transit recoil/ bore dwelling I'm not sure. I looked some stuff up and not only do i have a shorter than average 500 (6.5") which supposedly lessens bore transit recoil, but my handloads, while using an admittedly heavy bullet, have rather mild recoil. I'd say similar to a 50 AE. (My brother has a Desert Eagle) But who knows? I'm gonna try some different loads at some point today.
 
I think you could be causing the high hits by your grip. You should be as high on the backstrap as you can without the hammer touching your hand. Grip strongly with both hands, gun in center of the body (I use the crossed thumbs grip) Lean into the shot some by having a foot to the rear and concentrate on controlling the recoil as it comes back and minimize the flip up.

My 6.5 inch .500 is a tack driver but the heavier rounds do hit higher. I have it sighted in perfectly for my plinking rounds (350gr) my hunting rounds 400gr or 375gr hit a tad higher, but that's good so I can have a better view of the target

Practice Practice Practice!

 
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If you have several bullet weights, it would make for a great controlled scientific experiment. Load different weights with the same powder charge (so the lighter bullets will move faster out the bore), use your pistol rest and post some photos of your groups. That should show how much lower your lighter bullet loads print.
 
Thanks , I have been describing the phenominum for decades , and didn't know it had a handy name for it.

But yes, heavier OR slower will raise the impact. And yes, it is particularily dramatic with the .500 . In his length essay on the .500 by John Ross ( on his website and also included with his pistols ) he explains, and indeed different loads often require different front sights. John R. arbitrarily supplies a front sight suitable for the Horn 500gr factory load , but different heights are needed for both really hot loads or moderate loads.
 
Well, I'm off to the range with my chrono and some 500gr that ive loaded a little hotter. As of right now that is the only weight I have. I was also able to torque down the rear sight another .25 or .5 turns with the gun freshly oiled up so I'll be back with some results, maybe I'll even see what 25 yards looks like.
 
Mine shot way high was well. Smith is aware of the problem and sent me another higher front sight. I have an early gun and interchangeable front sight, so it made it easier. Even a pinned front sight can be changed without much trouble if you have the right drill bit. Good luck.
 
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