Hello all, I just finished polishing my titanium cylinder for my 642 and I'm planning on installing it, this gun is my EDC. I know S&W says they're ok, but I'd like to hear any current feedback either way. Should I go titanium or stay with the stainless for EDC? Thanks

I really don't know where to start! You actually polished a Titanium cylinder!!!!!!!!! Obviously you didn't read the instructions/warnings to NOT use abrasives to clean the Titanium! Or are you one of those who has the mis-guided idea that "polishes" are not abrasive so they are ok?? Well guess what, you have just succeeded in destroying your cylinder because you thought that "ugly gray coating" was, well, ugly and you had to do something about it! It is that coating which gives the Titanium the ability to survive the extremely harsh environment of the hot, high-pressure gasses which are vented through the barrel-cylinder gap. Go fire a hundred or so +P loads through it and come back with pictures asking why you are seeing so much erosion on the face of the cylinder!

I was also told not to polish my 642 or I'd ruin the finish. I don't mean to be rude to you but, you think I've ruined my titanium cylinder because of the flimsey finish put on it? You think that logic exceeds the metallurgy? Please, I just want an answer.

Titanium cylinders are anodized - that anodizing is key to preventing wear. It is a very hard coating over a relatively soft but high tensile strength material.

If you polished the front of the cylinder you will see erosion quickly with use.

Absolutely you ruined the cylinder

You might give S&W a call and ask if it can be re-finisded

If you didn't touch the face or bores, then it might be OK. Otherwise, expect bad things to happen. And, yes, coatings and finishes that might be only a few molecules thick can be important! Think lens coatings that greatly increase light transmission, reduce fogging, etc. Or even paint on steel. A good coat will prevent rust for years.

Note that titanium can also be seriously degraded by some cleaning agents. Chlorinated hydrocarbons are bad ju-ju.

FYI, raw Titanium is flammable just like Magnesium. It's actually flammable enough that there were machine shops burned to the ground by cutting chips that caught fire when it was first being implemented. Because it took a while for the Machining Industry to invent and implement the specific protocols for safely machining Titanium. The entire purpose of that ugly gray surface is to provide a non flammable barrier to the hot gasses and burning powder particles. As a result if you polished the face of your cylinder it won't take "hundreds" of rounds to cause severe erosion it will only take one or two cylinders full. And no, the damage will NOT be covered by your warranty, there are warnings in the manual and you totally ignored them.

Add the sides of the cylinder - if fired much you'll likely see cylinder notch peening and chamber skipping much sooner than you otherwise might.

How about some pics?

Guys, Don't be so harsh...his 642's instruction manual did not have anything about Titanium cylinders anywhere in it. He likely bought the cylinder from Numrich or another parts vendor.

The Ti cylinder is a funny beast, they were built for a specific purpose and most owners don't fully understand the complicated engineering that went into getting that metal to work in this application.

It is sad to think that a brand new part has probably been ruined, but at least he still has a perfectly functional (albeit not as lightweight as he wants) model 642.

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On the Oak Savannah

Just throwing an idea out here. Can titanium cylinders ber cerakoted and/or duracoated? I know titanum is a "rough" surface on the microscopic level compared to other metals, that is why anti-sieze compounds are recomended for nuts and bolts. I ask the question because I don't know what type of prep would be neccessary. At high temperatures titanium and oxygen don't mix. I must say there' a lot of passion in this thread

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MCRGO member

I'm sure you could cera/duracoat but that coating would erode quickly on the cylinder face.

I realize I'm fighting a losing battle, but here goes. While there are QC issues with S&W (too many, from my reading here), the company has been producing revolvers for over a century. In my experience, they are set up to operate just as they come out of the box. I will do nothing more than change a grip. Anything else, my gunsmith is set up to handle.

In the Centennial line alone, there have been, and are, variants galore: Models 40, 42, 342, 442, 642, 640 (.38), 640 (.357), 940, 340, 340 (IL)... What did I omit? Seems that anything you could want is (has been) factory produced. Changing cylinders, swapping out springs, polishing parts... not me, baby. BTW, I have had my 'smith do drastic things on rare occasions to a gun, and the result usually is something I wonder why I even considered.

As another poster wisely says, all this is worth exactly what you paid for it. Works for me, though. Good Shooting!

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

Unfortunately you did ruin your titanium cylinder. It is not safe to shoot once you damaged the coating. Just cleaning the cylinder is a very delicate process, and one has to be very careful. Most don't even attempt to clean the powder burn rings off the front and sides of the cylinder because using a brass brush will damage the coating. A toothbrush and a cleaning patch are about all you want to use on the titanium cylinder.

Once the coating is damaged, firing a few cylinders will cause rapid erosion and render the cylinder unsafe to shoot.

I don't mean to beat you while you are down, but I am not sure what you hoped to gain by polishing the titanium cylinder? It is not something that could ever be bright and shiny.

Anyway do NOT fire the gun with the cylinder. It will not take too many rounds until you put yourself in danger. Titanium shrapnel is never a good thing.

To answer your original question...A Titanium cylinder is an amazing feat of engineering and will last a lifetime if properly cared for. I have many Ti series guns and have fired many thousands of rounds collectively through them, and have never had a hint of a problem.

I have a 342, which has an aluminum frame and titanium cylinder (which I believe is the outcome you were after by changing the cylinder from stainless to titanium). I have a nylon bore brush to clean the chambers and barrel with, can't use brass. S&W also recommends that you don't use Hoppes #9 or similar products...nothing abrasive for sure. I only use Break Free because S&W is ok with that product. I don't carry or shoot it much.

I carry a 642 because it's easier to care for.

I don't really think the cost versus weight savings is worth the cost of replacing a stainless steel cylinder on a 642 with a titanium cylinder. The difference in cleaning methods seals the deal for me. The 642 is easier to care for, cheaper, and doesn't weight that much more.

Fox

I've certainly learned a whole bunch about Titanium cylinders that I never knew prior to reading this thread!

Rich

Thanks for all the "kind" replies fellow Smith peeps. I polished the cylinder to match my polished 642, and yes, the cylinder does actually look like polished stainless. I really do appreciate the feedback, but I'm not done with the cylinder. I've got a beater 442 that I'm gonna put it into and see how it does. I know I've been told not to on here. You guys might be 100% correct. I'll post the results after I get out to the range. No matter the results it won't be going into the 642 after what I've read here, just wouldn't trust it.

Good luck. I hope it works for you. Above all be safe.

Fox

Thanks I'll include pics after each shot as well.

I suspect the situation is not nearly as dire as has been stated here. I have an early 360sc (right after they came out). I also had its predecessor, the 337 in .38. I don't believe there were any warnings in either of the manuals that came with those guns. I shot them quite a bit ... mostly .38's, plus my 5 .357 carry-rounds (in the 360) each range trip. Always used Hoppe's #9, and a bronze brush on bore and cylinder-holes. I've never seen a problem. I still carry the 360 as my BUG, although I rarely shoot it anymore.

Well . . . I don't think you have anything to worry about.

I just read all the comments about care in cleaning. But, none of the three cylinders I have seem to be that delicate. I use a bronze brush every time I visit the range.

Admittedly, I am NOT a Hoppe's 9 fan because of the odor, but have used several other cleaners with no apparent damage. Yes, hot 357 magnum rounds with light bullets will literally ignite the face of a Titanium cylinder, even with the original factory coating. But, that is easy to avoid.

I believe you will be very happy and look forward to reading of your success.

Today must be the "DAY OF LEARNING" for more than RichCapeCod and myself. Thanks for the education on Titanium cylinders. I will be especially careful from here on out.

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Nam '66-67

This has probably been said by others here...

Dad was an aerospace materials engineer. Adhesives, carbon fiber, composites, titanium, you name it.

Titanium (in his words) is not a miracle material. It has very high tensile strength but it smears. This is why you don't see barrels out of titanium. As others have noted it can be anodized and wearing that away brings out all the bad qualities of titanium.

Good luck!

Send the cylinder to Armoloy and call it a day.

There is something you can do with the titanium cylinder... if you turn it on its end, it will hold ink pens on your desk.

Wow, this thread is really an education in itself. Now I know why my Smith collection contains only guns made prior to 1992.

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Dr. B

and on the 8th day he created steel. LOL

I've got way to many hours in on the polishing to just turn it into a paper weight or pen holder, but I like the idea. It's gonna get shot so we can all learn the results. I didn't touch the charge holes on this one and short of a zombie apocalypse it will continue to only feed on 129 + P Federal

Pictures please. Before and after from your polishing and whatever happens next. Tells the next guy. Make it a sticky. Chalk it up to a learning experience.

I'm curious as to why all of these experts weren't making these comments when the OP originally said ( in his thread about polishing his 642 )that he was awaiting delivery of a titanium cylinder for it, and was planning on polishing it ? I've also polished the 642 that I have, mostly because the finish was getting ratty and looked like hell. I guess, to me, I just don't see the point of spending the extra money on a gun with a titanium cylinder if it's so " fragile ". The weight difference isn't enough of a factor for me.

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1st smiles,lies.Last,gunfire.

I built a cnc lathe to cut titanium and during the tooling the chip bucket was kept empty. It burns hot.

I welded magnesium in a argon controlled atmosphere. I did have one droplet hit the floor on fire. Stupid me I stepped on it to put it out and had 12 Richard Pryor running across the floor. I just laughed. I was in a weld booth and safe.

I'm curious as well why there was no negative response before when I posted as you said. Doesn't really matter though. I'll post some pics of the cylinder now and after each shot. If its as bad as some say it could be less than a box of 20. Like I said, they may be 100% correct, but I see a lot of opinions and nobody that has actually done it. I heard the same about polishing the frame, that turned out great, we'll see with the cylinder my friends

Yes, that is "curious". In May of 2012, in this thread: (340PD Polished Titanium Cylinder) another gentleman on our forum reported polishing the face of his Titanium cylinder. Subsequently he shot his 340PD with NO bad results. Here are two partial quotes from his message thread:
Based on Jimandsue60's comments, I predict success with your polished cylinder.

Please keep those pictures coming, sir.

I've had magnesium burn during the machining process once or twice, but with swarf under control it was no big drama. Have yet to do the same with titanium in 25+ years. But it can be damaged in odd ways! We have to use special felt tip markers when writing, etc. on titanium, as regular markers can damage it.


A wee titanium compressor hub.



Damaged titanium bearing housing.

Twitchy material, but very useful!

Somewhere on this site there's an old thread showing photos of a flame cut titanium cylinder. So, it's not altogether an unfounded concern.

I am very interested in the range test results,very interesting thread.

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Hue 68 noli me tangere

Google "smith wesson titanium cylinder erosion" and look at the images.

Here is one. 34 rounds of 110gr 357 fired with the coating. Ate right through the coating and rapidly eroded the cylinder. Look how deep those flame cuts are after just 34 rounds. Imagine how quickly things will go downhill without the coating with any type of ammo!

Because of the warning about bullets under 120 grains, I shot only 158gr JHP's (Federal Hi-Shok .357's, about mid-spec .357 these days, but considered full-spec back then) in my 360sc. I always had the impression that with that cartridge, all the powder was burned before the bullet even left the case. Maybe that's why I never saw any damage at all to my cylinder, despite MANY cleanings with Hoppe's #9 AND bronze brushing.

This is a great thread. I had no idea how finicky a material Titanium is (Iceberg, Goldberg, it's all the same thing...). I have a S&W 342. Wonderful handgun to carry, impossible to shoot (for me anyway). I've had the gun for years but don't have fifty rounds through the piece (it's that painful to shoot).

I will be much more cautious when cleaning the 342 from now on; no Hoppes #9, no abrasives, just loving attention!

Rich

Mike, I've used Hoppe's #9 on guns that other posters say is a no-no. Never a brass brush, though. I also have an early 360Sc from September 2001 and it is a beast to fire. My latest 340 M&P with it's steel cylinder is more tolerable. Can't understand why the 2 oz weight difference is that significant.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

Rich, as I wrote Mike above, I DO use Hoppe's on these titanium cylinder jobs w/o problem. Perhaps because I don't drown the guns in solvent, could that be? And yes, the 342 IS painful to shoot, as are the older model aluminum guns like the 37, 38 and 42. For some reason my new 340 M&P is tolerable to shoot with 110gr .357s, altho it's weight (13oz) is in the same ballpark as the others above. Go figure.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

Not a clue why the difference. I do mostly carry my S&W 642 as I can tolerate the recoil of that handgun. The Ruger LCR with it's big rubber grip is even more manageable for me.

Rich

Wow, what a learning experience. This is a great thread and I want to thank all that added their bits to it. Thanks to OP for posting. I will be seeking out more info on Titanium. Still makes me wonder why they use such a temperamental material in something that is designed to be so utilitarian....Just my 2 cents.

"Wow, this thread is really an education in itself. Now I know why my Smith collection contains only guns made prior to 1992."
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That's sad, you're missing out on some great guns. As long as you're happy though, that's all that matters.

Its fine the way it is shows some staining around the front surface doesn't clean as easy as stainless but that's ok.

l think l will pass on that 986

This is all very interesting.

I saw an article a while back where Patrick Sweeney had SW install a titanium cylinder on his 25-2 and he said he shot the daylights out of it at some kind of pistol matches.

I do not recall any downsides mentioned though.

Is the 1.9 oz difference in weight (340 PD vs M&P 340) really worth the expense and special precautions that come with having the titanium cylinder? Other than it's a neat technology accomplishment, I don't get it.

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M60 442 642 637 686 686+ 629

For pocket carry, the lighter the better ... less "pendulum effect", especially in looser pants. My 360sc (11oz, empty) pocket-carries like a dream ... it's my EDC BUG.

For my primaries (1911 and S&W69, 38oz and 37oz, resp.), weight isn't a problem in my shoulder holsters.

As for the questions on why, it's a 1.9-2.0 oz weight difference on my scale. That's a big difference to me for an EDC pocket gun. My 642 weighs 12.3-12.4 on my scale with the titanium cylinder. Also, I ran out of things to do to the gun after the trigger, springs, grips, and polish. So it was the final step for me

Here's the polished titanium cylinder. There's a bit of polishing compound still around the edges, but doesn't matter for the pic.

Pic didn't post, trying again

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