Ruger makes a single action 45acp w/o moon clips & s&w can not or will not? some folks just hate moon clips. I know it's fast when you are using them. Why can't s&w make revolvers with cylinders that hold the 45acp in? some technical difficulty with double action vs single action?
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45acp w/o moon clips?
- Thread starter shootbad
- Start date
It's not a matter of making "revolvers that hold .45ACP in." It's getting the empties back out efficiently that requires moon clips in most double actions including Ruger Redhawks. Ruger single action Blackhawks use that ejector rod that is so conspicuously attached to their barrels to get .45 ACP empties back out.
Except for the Governor which has deep chambers for .410 shotgun shells S&W .45 ACP revolvers fire .45 ACPs without moon clips just fine. The empties that do not fall out with the revolver pointed up can be quickly flicked out using your finger nail in their extractor grooves. Thats a lot quicker than reloading a single action. .45 Auto Rim cases have extra thick rims to fill the gap behind .45 ACP cylinders that's there to make room for moon clips. Using .45 Auto Rim cartridges makes S&W and Colt .45 ACP double actions function the same as .38 specials.
Except for the Governor which has deep chambers for .410 shotgun shells S&W .45 ACP revolvers fire .45 ACPs without moon clips just fine. The empties that do not fall out with the revolver pointed up can be quickly flicked out using your finger nail in their extractor grooves. Thats a lot quicker than reloading a single action. .45 Auto Rim cases have extra thick rims to fill the gap behind .45 ACP cylinders that's there to make room for moon clips. Using .45 Auto Rim cartridges makes S&W and Colt .45 ACP double actions function the same as .38 specials.
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When I had a 25-2, I rarely used clips.
It's interesting that S&W could have built a 45acp revolver based on the same design as the model 547. That 9mm revolver has a fairly complex extractor that let the empties eject like any other rimmed cartridge revolver. My understanding is that it was cost prohibitive to continue production, as well as the mechanism being fairly intricate and a little delicate. IMO, the moon clip is one of the best ideas for loading a revolver. It is much easier and faster to use than a speed loader. The clips are a pain to load and unload, but with the proper tool it's a cinch. I own several 45acp revolvers and really enjoy shooting them because they do use the clips.
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Some Smith 45acp revolvers "Will Not" fire 45acps without MC's just fine. Lots of discussion years earlier about this......One of my 625's will only be 100% reliable with MC's. Seems Smith started cutting the chambers deeper in the later guns. the older 25-2's didn't have this problem.
Some Smith 45acp revolvers "Will Not" fire 45acps without MC's just fine. Lots of discussion years earlier about this......One of my 625's will only be 100% reliable with MC's. Seems Smith started cutting the chambers deeper in the later guns. The older 25-2's didn't have this problem.
Lou_the_welder
Well-known member
I couldn't imagine shooting without em
I'd forgotten this. Round about 1988 to 1989 when the firs 625s were selling there was talk at the range about S&W literature writing they'd changed from a headspacing shoulder in .45 ACP chambers to a tapered progression into the chamber throat. I don't doubt what you say but I have not spoken with any 625 owners that had your misfire problem. I guess you just have to try out any 625 without clips to know if it will be reliable.
Since we're chatting about other brands in this thread I can add that Taurus used thinner moon clips in their 5 round .45 ACP Trackers so .45 Auto Rim won't go in them.
Confirm the above posts about using ACP rounds w/o moon clips. My Model 22 of 1917 has one chamber in which an unsupported round sinks a smidge more deeply than the others, causing a light primer indentation/FTF. Use of the clips prevents this. My 625JM does not have this problem.
Kaaskop49
Shield #5103
bananaman
Well-known member
They also make a .40 Pit Bull. I have 1, and it works well. Bob
bananaman
Well-known member
RIMZ Poly Moon Clips work so well. I have metal ones, and a de-moon tool. Use the polys most of the time in my 625JM. Bob
Groo01
Well-known member
Groo here
Given the low price of Ranch Products moon clips [both full and 1/3 moon]
and the modern tools to demoon and load clips .
I see this as a non-issue.
Also , moon clips make recovery of brass much easier.
Given the low price of Ranch Products moon clips [both full and 1/3 moon]
and the modern tools to demoon and load clips .
I see this as a non-issue.
Also , moon clips make recovery of brass much easier.
spad124
Well-known member
+1 on .45 Auto Rim. Interestingly my M1917 shoots 4-5" groups at 15yards with .45 ACP and 2" or less groups at 15 yards with .45 Auto Rim. Theoretically both loadings are basic hardball loads.
Cal44
Well-known member
The Ruger LCR 9mm = uses moon clips with a slot in the clip between each round.
One nice feature or this is you can load and unload the clips by hand -- don't need tools. I suppose there is a chance of bending the clip, but I haven't bent any yet.
One nice feature or this is you can load and unload the clips by hand -- don't need tools. I suppose there is a chance of bending the clip, but I haven't bent any yet.
Jim Watson
Well-known member
I am sure they could build a .45 ACP with rimless extractor, they and others have done it for 9mm, and now Charter in .40 and .45.
I see two reasons why they don't.
1. Cost, they probably don't see enough sales to be worth designing and tooling up for a new extractor system. The 547 didn't last.
2. Speed, all the trick extractors I have seen require that you push the shells into the chambers past the spring loaded engagements. Whereas a clip just drops into place.
Advantages of the clip are
1. Speed, load the gun in one drop, unload with no risk of getting a rim under the extractor.
2. Packaging, carry six rounds in one lump and more importantly, pick up your empties six at a time. No such thing as a "lost brass match", not even the most hard nosed match director will demand you throw away your clips or unclip your empties and donate them to the club.
I see two reasons why they don't.
1. Cost, they probably don't see enough sales to be worth designing and tooling up for a new extractor system. The 547 didn't last.
2. Speed, all the trick extractors I have seen require that you push the shells into the chambers past the spring loaded engagements. Whereas a clip just drops into place.
Advantages of the clip are
1. Speed, load the gun in one drop, unload with no risk of getting a rim under the extractor.
2. Packaging, carry six rounds in one lump and more importantly, pick up your empties six at a time. No such thing as a "lost brass match", not even the most hard nosed match director will demand you throw away your clips or unclip your empties and donate them to the club.
... I prefer the moon clips, am I odd?
I've owned 3 625s and have also used Ranch Products clips w/o any problems. I consider the clips a definite advantage in these revolvers.
I also have several 627/327s that use moon clips. Unfortunately use of the clips with the 8 rounds of 357 or 38 special is much more fussy. Apparently you need to match different thicknesses of clips with certain brands of cases. For carry I use a moon clip for the first cylinder loading and 8 round speedstrips for the reloads. For practice and competition I use 5 star speedloaders and loading blocks.
The original half-moon clips were flimsy and often bent. As a result, they often would impede cylinder rotation. Elmer Keith referred to the half moon/1917 revolver concept as smart emergency engineering, but not practical engineering. Still, not bad as a solution in the middle of a world war.
The moon clips do away with these problems. I also prefer those by Ranch Products.
Kaaskop49
Shield #5103
The moon clips do away with these problems. I also prefer those by Ranch Products.
Kaaskop49
Shield #5103
