Hi all, I recently bought my first gun (a 686+, specifically 686-6) from a FFL who told me that it was brand new from the distributor. I've never shot the gun and was just cleaning it for the first time when I noticed a few issues that concerned me. I took pictures to show what I'm talking about.

1. One of the points on the ejector looks like it has a small chip. When I run my finger across, it catches a bit. Picture: http://i.imgur.com/VBb1THn.jpg
2. The ejector itself has a bit of rotational wiggle. it can be rotated slightly so that the ejector doesn't align perfectly with the chamber hole. Picture: http://i.imgur.com/zPJSU5B.jpg
3. When I removed the cylinder and yoke, it looks like there's some corrosion/rust in the frame's recess where the yoke slides into. Picture: http://i.imgur.com/wlekg0Y.jpg
4. The inside of the frame where the serial number is stamped and face of the yoke that fits against that part of the frame are both discolored compared to the rest of the frame. The rest of the frame isn't even all that clean and polished in the first place; there are very fine scratches everywhere. Picture: http://i.imgur.com/6mqDG9c.jpg
5. There are a couple of divots and some scratches on the muzzle. In fact, the finish on the muzzle just looks rougher than other muzzles I've seen. Picture: http://i.imgur.com/nPUxgvn.jpg

Would any of this affect the performance and reliability of the firearm? Opening and closing the cylinder sometimes isn't very smooth, but I'm not sure if that's an issue or if it just needs breaking in. Should I send it in to S&W for service? If so, then it's pretty disappointing to have to service a brand new firearm (my first gun, no less) without even getting to shoot it. For service like this, would I have to pay for anything? I'm just worried that there could be more issues that I didn't find since I'm not comfortable enough to disassemble the gun. Thanks in advance for any advice you guys have.

None of that looks like safety or performance issues to me. But it sure seems to be a lot of bumps and bruises for a "new" gun. Is that rust/corrosion you're seeing in the yoke area just some dried up grease of some kind?

I'd hold the dealers feet to the fire for an unblemished gun.

You do realize that S&W revolvers are actually Hand Made items don't you? These aren't popped out of a mold, the finish is applied 100% by hand and they are assembled 100% by hand. Look closely enough and you will find that even the Mona Lisa is full of minor flaws and defects because it was also created by hand. The only thing I see that is at all disturbing is the face of the muzzle, those marks are not typical and are in indication of mis-handling by someone. However, those marks will have zero effect on function so they are simply marks.

1) Chipped Ejector. Perhaps it's a poor choice for a camera angle or simply a result of the rather odd shape of the extractor star in relation to the 7 shot cylinder but I am not seeing a chip.

2) Extractor wiggle. S&W relies on a sort of flat bottom/half circle top shape to "register" the extractor on these revolvers and they do wiggle a bit more than the older design that used 2 pins. However, historically those pins would fall out and really dodn't work much better, so it doesn't matter at all. Because as soon as you charge the cylinder with cartridges the extractor is located so the function is 100% flawless. So, don't worry about this wiggle, it's totally normal.

3) Corrosion in the yoke cutout. Every single revolver produced is test fired at the factory before it's shipped and they are NOT cleaned after this test firing. IMO what you are seeing is a result of that test firing in combination with some residue from the cutting oil/coolants used at some stages of machining done on the frame. If it bothers you use a brass bore brush to scrub at this area to clean it up a bit. Otherwise you can simply ignore it because it has no effect on function.

4) Rough surface and lack of finishing in the yoke cutout and hidden areas of the yoke. These areas have traditionally been unfinished and left "as machined" for over 150 years so this is also purely something visible when you open the cylinder. They are also areas that would not be easy to finish, it would probably require close to 40 hours of hand work with fine machinists stones at at a shop rate of 100 dollars per hour and thus add 4000 dollars to the cost of the revolver. So these areas will remain unfinished because this has zero effect on function.

5) Marks on face of muzzle. Plain old mis-handling at some point but not at all of any effect on function or accuracy because they aren't in the bore/muzzle transition. Ignore them.

BTW, since you are new and since it comes up very very often with new revolver owners that "crack" in the frame to the right of the hammer coutout really isn't a crack, it's the seam where the Sideplate is fitted into the frame. That also has no effect on function at all.

The one thing I see that concerns me is the extractor. From your picture, that isn't a chip, it's a dent. It appears the extractor was hit on the inside edge hard enough to not only cause a dent, but to also move a small amount of metal to the outside edge that the shell rim rests on. While the dent won't harm anything, the raised edge can cause the cartridge to not seat all the way in that chamber, which could lead to problems such as failure to fire under certain circumstances. Quickest remedy would be to remove the high spot, but since it's a new gun, I would have S&W replace the extractor. That will require a return to factory as I doubt S&W will send out a replacement.

All the other concerns you have expressed have been pretty well addressed, except the cost of returning the gun which is $0. S&W doesn't charge for warranty work and will cover the cost of shipping.

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So many S&W's, so few funds!!

Thanks for the advice. I just wanted to follow up on a couple of things:

I'm not sure how that works in terms of DROS registration. Since I already filled out the paperwork and took the gun home, I'm not sure how a replacement would work (assuming they would actually agree to replacing the gun). I didn't really think that was an option, but would love to hear from anyone who has gotten a replacement before.

I took some more pictures of the possible chip/dent in various angles and tried to do side-by-side comparisons with one of the other prongs: Better Angle, Side-by-Side 1, Side-by-Side 2, Cylinder. Hopefully, these pictures will give a better view of what I'm talking about.

How would something like that happen? If it was a timing issue, there would be more dents around the cylinder right? Also, if it is the case that the firing pin hit the extractor, then could the firing pin have also been damaged? What would a damaged pin look like? Sorry for all the questions, but this has me worried.

I looked online for pictures of other people's S&W revolvers and these parts all looked fairly clean (they at least looked consistent with the rest of the frame). I guess it could be because people cleaned their guns really well before taking the pictures. I wasn't able to clean off any of this discoloration myself.

I didn't know that. That's good to know. Thanks!

Welcome to the forum.

I hope the replies have answered your questions, I did see a few minor knicks and dents, none of which should have any effect on function.

Nice photography!

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Tony

Welcome.

There is nothing wrong with your revolver apart from the fact that you have not gone out and shot the heck out of it yet.

This revolver looks basically like every new revolver I see, and the minor little blemishes, etc., are nothing to worry about.

Admittedly, your revolver is not like the 1935 Registered Magnum, but on the other hand, what is these days?

I really feel for the folks that handle warranty claims at S&W.

A simple inspection before the purchase could have avoided all this fuss.

They don't make them like they used to.

I take it I'm being too anal about it? Honestly, I'm just starting out and don't know what's an issue and what's not.

The thing about that is that it takes some experience to know what to look for. I did do an inspection when the gun arrived from the distributor after I already paid (the FFL doesn't keep any inventory on hand), but I didn't know what I was doing. It wasn't until I started cleaning it that I noticed these things. I feel like I've learned quite a bit researching all this stuff the past couple of days.

None of this would bother me. Enjoy your purchase.

The extractor 'dent' most likely happened pre-assembly, possibly when the extractor itself was made or after it was made but before installation.

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So many S&W's, so few funds!!

Those pictures provide a much better view of the dimple on your extractor. While I don't believe it's typical I have to admit I haven't looked this closely at the extractor star on any of my recently manufactured revolvers (610-3, 625 JM & 620). It may be a tooling mark made at some stage in the manufacture if the extractor. Whatever it is I do not think it will have any effect on function.

One thing I will note is that there has been a litany complaints about cockeyed barrels for the past several years. In my case the barrel on my 625 JM was over rotated enough that I had to shift the rear sight to the left limit to get the sights properly zeroed. So, I removed the barrel and remounted it so it was perfectly square and now I have to adjust the rear sight so that it's about 1/2 way between center and the right limit of it's adjustment. My conclusion is that in the case of my 625 the barrel should be over rotated just a bit in the frame but I'm not going to bother doing that because it now shoots just where I expect it to and I don't care if the rear sight is a bit off center. Point is make sure you shoot your 686 carefully from a rest before you decide if you have to do anything if you find your barrel is "clocked" a bit imperfectly in the frame. It may actually be the case this was done so the revolver shoots on center with the rear sight centered.

BTW, I'll also note that having adjusted the barrel on one of these revolvers I can say specifically that it was NOT the least bit as simple as many assume to get the barrel perfectly aligned in the frame. First off there is the amount of torque required, at a guess it's in the range of 50 ft.lbs. I had to use an 18 inch "cheater" bar on the frame wrench to tighten the barrel on my 625. Second issue is that with the barrel clamped in a fitted hard nylon nest and with the frame wrench mounted to the frame there is only the tiniest bit of the frame barrel junction visible. So, you are hanging off the end of a long pipe while squinting at an area that is only about 3/32 wide. Quite frankly mounting a barrel on one of these revolvers is a job I wouldn't want to do all day every day, it isn't at all "easy".

When I bought mine I took the best of 3, but on a new weapon I always do that and back in the day 1970's on Bangnor Punta made S-W wheelguns this was a job to find a nice one. There made pretty darn good today. Tolerances are tighter and longer lasting. Jerry Miculek says the new SW are the best longest lasting Smith's ever made! And he has been wearing them out for 5 decades. Any wheelguns new or used gets a very good look over and action test.

I had a recent 629-6 that had this "corrosion" in the area of the frame where the yoke goes into, along with where the model # and serial # are printed. I ended up cleaning it up with a polishing cloth, but it was definitely some light rust. None of my older guns exhibit this, was a little disappointing to say the least.

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Wheelguns 'n 3rd Gens.

My friend, until he passed, handled the warranty claims at Kimber. Some were legit, like errors any manufacturer could make, but the vast majority were just plain nonsensical.
The stories he used to tell were amazing.

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Sure you did

We are spoiled by the beautiful pictures of beautiful guns that we see on this forum. In reality the beautiful guns are the ones that work reliably and hit where they are aimed.

Put a thousand rounds through the gun and see that it works properly. These guns are made to work with relatively sloppy tolerances. That is probably what makes them so good.

I have a 686 bought 15 years ago that has a lot of rotational play in the cylinder and more side to side movement than I like. It's been back to S&W and they say it is within tolerances. You know what? It has always worked perfectly and reliably.

I think your gun is probably going to be just fine. You are at the beginning of the great leaning process. We have all been there.

Bill

I think Bill makes some very good points in his post.

It is difficult for folks to part with the large sums of cash that firearms cost these days and upon inspecting the handgun or rifle find something that looks dirty, dinged and which pales next to some of the firearms displayed on enthusiast sites.

When I purchased my first S&W revolver in 1983, a model 36 for duty backup / ankle carry in NYC, there were no online forums for me to go to and moon over. There were catalogs and there were storefronts.

The blue steel Chiefs Special was a tool first and foremost. And while it was beautiful in both form and function in my eyes and always shot true, I didn't hold it up in comparison to others to see if I got my money's worth. The fit and finish looked good to my eye and that was that. I didn't lose any sleep when the bluing rubbed off here and there from abrasion within my ankle holster. (In retrospect I'm only sorry that I eventually sold that firearm.)

When I purchased my 686+ this past December I remember being very disappointed in the dirty, unloved appearance of the revolver when I opened the box at my local FFL. The cylinder had noticeable rings from having been fired, the gun was dirty pretty much everywhere and looked nothing like a new gun. (My FFL, a person I've known for years, affirmed that "that's what they all look like nowadays".)

So, while it's true that the proof is in the pudding in terms of how a firearm performs the job it was built to do, when you drop the kinds of sums required to buy one of these guns nowadays it's no surprise that new folks, or any folks for that matter, might come away wondering if something was amiss.

The good thing is that if something really does prove to be problematic, S&W will take measures to address the issue at no cost to the owner.

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642-1, M&P15 TS

I work for another Manufacturer at present doing this exact task, you are 100% correct. We regularly get firearms back that you need a magnifying glass to see the "defect", which is usually a scratch that was created long after leaving the factory.

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Wheelguns 'n 3rd Gens.

I wouldn't be happy with ANY new S&W that exhibited any significant "rotational wiggle" in the extractor. I have several revolvers where the extractors are of the "new style" (asymmetrically shaped and no pins) and they all fit PERFECTLY in their respective cylinders with virtually zero movement.

It's obvious to me that S&W was capable of producing well-fitted extractors at one point in time, so I personally believe it can be done.

Here's what I would do if I just spent my hard-earned money on a NEW revolver. Regardless of the fact that the revolver will, in all likelyhood, carry-up correctly with cartridges (or dummy rounds) in the chambers, I would test the carry-up (some call it "timing") of the locking of the cylinder with EMPTY chambers. With an empty revolver and the hammer down, very slowly pull the trigger back on each cylinder. When the hammer falls, stop pulling the trigger (hold where you are) and immediately check (use your free hand) to determine whether the cylinder has locked. If any of the chambers fire in DA mode before the cylinder locks up, I would send it back to S&W. I'm sure they can correct this if they choose to.

Lou

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NRA Certified Instructor & RSO

I've put up detailed pictures of flaws in a couple 1950's guns and they were totally ignored.

Put up a minor flaw in a new production and often the peanut gallery chimes in.

But yeah, you are totally correct.

Yes, too anal for 686-6, but the correct attention to detail for a pre-27, pre-29, 44HE...etc...

Welcome to the addiction. This gun will be the first of many S&W's. When you get to the older guns whose values are largely determined by their condition, your astute observations will literally be worth money.

I think you've received decent advice so far. The fine "scratches" are just the way the finish looks on these guns (ie, "brushed"). The little dings on the barrel face are certainly annoying to some but would probably be missed by most (and shouldn't affect anything functionally). Take care to avoid getting any more that might come in contact with the crown / rifling. The discoloration on the inside of the gun is, as was mentioned, the way it always has been. Any rust or corrosion shouldn't be there... raw steel or carbon fouling is normal. It's highly likely, considering the stainless frame, that the rust is actually from the tooling the gun was made on rather than the actual frame itself rusting. I could be wrong, though. I'd clean it off and oil it well.

The extractor star, however, would bother me. It shouldn't be dinged or dented, nor should it rotate any perceivable amount. Just because a lot of them might do that doesn't make it okay... but it does mean that it is less likely to be "fixed" if you send the gun back in.

Technological advances are a bit of a paradox. Guns are more uniformly and cleanly built today than they ever were at any point in the past. However, because of this, there is a constantly decreasing level of expertise and hand-fitting that is used (or required to be used) in their production and assembly. Therefore, no, they don't make them like they used to, literally and figuratively. The former is great... but the latter, not so much.

Welcome to the forum, Jok5tr. You are at the right place for an education in all things Smith & Wesson..... and much more. Glad to have you aboard. You have a sharp eye that will pay off well as time goes on.

Thanks everyone for the feedback! Looks like the consensus is that most of these are non-issues and that the only potential cause for concern is with the extractor. I'm going to take it out to the range this weekend like I originally planned and see how it feels.

I'm grateful there's a community here with so many knowledgeable and helpful people. I really appreciate all the advice, and I"ll probably be back here soon enough with all sorts of other dumb questions.

Likewise I stated how good the service was on a returned revolver to S&W on an issue. No responses. If I had complained about the service no telling how long the thread would have been. I think a manufacture would do well to totally ignore some so called enthusiast forums.