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07-14-2018, 04:25 AM
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Is this as bad as it looks?
Just shot a factory-new 696 for the first time. 3 boxes of 44sp.
Now I see the internal lock thingy starting to pop up next to the trigger. I have never touched the keyhole.
Is this a problem?
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07-14-2018, 07:11 AM
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There is a man in Arizona can supply a plug, works in my 327.
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07-14-2018, 07:23 AM
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The flag on my 627 sits like that. Lots of rounds down the tube without a problem.
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07-14-2018, 07:24 AM
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Looks OK. Put key in hole, turn clockwise. If it doesn't turn, you are good to go.
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07-14-2018, 07:39 AM
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That, sir, is a hammer, rather than a trigger, and if your gun is working normally I’d guess it will be ok. Might keep an eye on it to see if anything changes as you use the gun. Otherwise, if it works, it works! Don’t overthink it.
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07-14-2018, 07:44 AM
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Put a little oil on the lock thingy and shoot the gun some more. It worked for me.
KO
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07-14-2018, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by privateinvestigator
I see the internal lock thingy starting to pop up next to the trigger. I have never touched the keyhole.
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The keyed portion is a cam, the lock thingy is a flat piece with a lug that when it's pushed upward with the cam, it fits in to a channel in side of the hammer, blocking movement.
The lock thingy has a small, weak little spring keeping it down. If mine and I was going to carry the gun, I would pull the flag and toss it in the bag with the other ones I've removed. The keyway can stay and will not cause any issue, other than it's there.
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07-14-2018, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M29since14
That, sir, is a hammer, rather than a trigger, and if your gun is working normally I’d guess it will be ok. Might keep an eye on it to see if anything changes as you use the gun. Otherwise, if it works, it works! Don’t overthink it.
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Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm just being a nervous nelly. But it came from reading this forum! There are so many threads that give the impression that new Smiths are all defective, it started to affect my thinking.
Also, before I complain about lock thingys, I will go back and learn the diff between a hammer and a trigger, and between a 696 and a 629.
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07-15-2018, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by privateinvestigator
Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm just being a nervous nelly. But it came from reading this forum! There are so many threads that give the impression that new Smiths are all defective, it started to affect my thinking.
Also, before I complain about lock thingys, I will go back and learn the diff between a hammer and a trigger, and between a 696 and a 629.
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Not all of them are defective, we just hear about the ones that are defective.
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07-15-2018, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old_Cop
There is a man in Arizona can supply a plug, works in my 327.
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But you can remove the IL without plugging the hole...right? The plug is strictly for cosmetic reasons...isn't it???
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07-15-2018, 09:48 AM
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MAYBE, MAYBE NOT.
It could be a case of "not a problem, until it is).
If/when it drags on the HAMMER you then will have a definite problem. If it doesn't affect performance, STOP LOOKING AT IT. I have a lock on my 617-6 & try to pretend it isn't there, throw the key away. (be sure it's unlocked first)
Last edited by nachogrande; 07-15-2018 at 09:50 AM.
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07-15-2018, 12:22 PM
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I've been thinking about putting a dab of super glue on the key slot and the flag (to the frame not the hammer!) as some added insurance against accidental movement.
I haven't tried it yet and I'm not sure how it would hold up to cleaning solvents...
Just a thought.
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07-15-2018, 12:34 PM
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Just an observation. The pic by the OP is about as closely as I have seen a new revolver. What struck me was the missing hammer and trigger color case hardening. I know to each his own, and I am not bashing MIM. Just my own opinion
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07-15-2018, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by privateinvestigator
Just shot a factory-new 696 for the first time. 3 boxes of 44sp.
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I swear I'm not trying to be funny here, or a smart aleck, or poke fun at someone else's gun...but from what I can see in that photograph, that gun doesn't look anywhere near "factory new". Even taking into account it's supposedly had three boxes of .44s run through it. It just doesn't.
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07-15-2018, 01:39 PM
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With respect to the lock: NO COMMENT.
John
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07-15-2018, 01:58 PM
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GOOD EYES.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchdog
I swear I'm not trying to be funny here, or a smart aleck, or poke fun at someone else's gun...but from what I can see in that photograph, that gun doesn't look anywhere near "factory new". Even taking into account it's supposedly had three boxes of .44s run through it. It just doesn't.
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Now that you mention it, there does seem to be more than a couple of boxes worth of wear on the hammer, trigger, turn line & some abrasions near the S&W logo.
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07-15-2018, 03:10 PM
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unfortunately, thats what the new ones look like these days.
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07-15-2018, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by privateinvestigator
Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm just being a nervous nelly.
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Better safe than sorry when holding 18,000 PSI of expanding gasses in your hand.
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07-15-2018, 03:31 PM
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NO WONDER I BUY USED.
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Originally Posted by MJFlores
unfortunately, thats what the new ones look like these days.
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What a shame.
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07-15-2018, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJFlores
unfortunately, thats what the new ones look like these days.
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I don't think so. Although I don't buy new S&W revolvers, I see them NIB in the shop, and even with MIM parts, the finish looks good...lots better, matter of fact, than the gun shown in this thread.
Anyway, the gun in this thread is a 696-2 if I'm not mistaken, since the -2 is when the IL was added. The 696 is no longer in production, anyway, having ended in 2002 after only a five-year run.
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07-15-2018, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by privateinvestigator
There are so many threads that give the impression that new Smiths are all defective
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That's based more in anecdotal panic than reality. I have two IL range toys that I run hard, hot, without mercy, no issues, no concerns. At revolver matches I'm far from alone in that respect.
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Last edited by Scorpion520AZ; 07-15-2018 at 04:07 PM.
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07-15-2018, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by privateinvestigator
...Also, before I complain about lock thingys, I will go back and learn the diff between a hammer and a trigger, and between a 696 and a 629.
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Oh, it’s OK to complain a little - everyone here does! It adds to the sport. Just don’t get carried away with it!
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07-15-2018, 04:15 PM
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[QUOTE=
Anyway, the gun in this thread is a 696-2 if I'm not mistaken, since the -2 is when the IL was added. The 696 is no longer in production, anyway, having ended in 2002 after only a five-year run.[/QUOTE]
I don't know what that gun is, but it looks like a 6 shooter to me. Not a 696.
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07-15-2018, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom 45
I've been thinking about putting a dab of super glue on the key slot and the flag (to the frame not the hammer!) as some added insurance against accidental movement.
I haven't tried it yet and I'm not sure how it would hold up to cleaning solvents...
Just a thought.
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Not necessary!
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07-15-2018, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchdog
Anyway, the gun in this thread is a 696-2 if I'm not mistaken, since the -2 is when the IL was added. The 696 is no longer in production, anyway, having ended in 2002 after only a five-year run.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CScott
I don't know what that gun is, but it looks like a 6 shooter to me. Not a 696.
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You could be right. Who knows? I was just going on what the OP said.
I can't think of anything else to say about it.
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07-15-2018, 06:19 PM
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All my new S&Ws look like that (see photos). I’ve had no problems with my new shooter grade revolvers. My collectible revolvers mainly sit in the safe.
Last edited by JOBA; 07-15-2018 at 06:22 PM.
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07-15-2018, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by privateinvestigator
Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm just being a nervous nelly. But it came from reading this forum! There are so many threads that give the impression that new Smiths are all defective, it started to affect my thinking.
Also, before I complain about lock thingys, I will go back and learn the diff between a hammer and a trigger, and between a 696 and a 629.
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Forgive me for saying so.... But I'm a revolver guy, been shooting S&W revolvers since I was a kid back in the 70's. When Smith came out with the internal lock in spring of 2000, a lot of the "purists" hated them for it's looks more than the function. Only until recently do we now hear "stories", mostly online of the Internal lock causing malfunctions and like social media, facts become twisted with fiction.
I have yet to see a internal lock on a S&W revolver malfunction. Everything else, well, ya heard it on these forums. Which to me, 99% of it is baloney.
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07-15-2018, 07:10 PM
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With the IL it might happen, without it... it will never happen.
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07-15-2018, 08:49 PM
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As an added touch, I like to add an "old style" thumbpiece on all my S&W revolvers, with or without the lock. Here is the Mdl 640-3 with an XS sight. Its lock has been disabled internally. I think the "old style" thumbpiece takes away some attention from the IL. It's a pretty presentable handgun and a real favorite of mine; I actually sold it once and then tracked down the gentleman a few months later and bought it back; won't happen again. I'd love a six-shot steel J frame like this in .327 Fed Mag. I mean, with the 12 round P365, the eight round Shield-9, and the six round K-6S -- the five round .38/.357 Centennials are getting harder to explain...
I also have a Mdl 686-8 that has a plug installed. It looks fine. I should point out, though, that the plug on that one is indented -- not flush with the side like that beautiful Mdl 586-7 above.
If S&W is going to remain committed to the IL for the Rest of All Time (except for selected Centennials) I wish they would engineer a "better" lock, accessed from a hidden location, with a much more robust and secure spring/lock. If they promise to drop the current IL, I promise to buy a copy of the first K frame they make without it.
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07-15-2018, 10:41 PM
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I don't know.... I've lost count on how many thousands of rounds I shot thru my 617-6 and my 686-6 (shooting mostly full pwr magnum loads) They keep getting smoother & smoother and the glances I get from ppl at the shooting range when I blast off my full pwr magnum loads is priceless.
My EDC 642-2 with probably around 400+ rounds thru it again, keeps getting better & better as I shoot it & work it...
But you know what? I totally forgot that they all have that internal lock until I came across this thread. It's a non issue and S&W IMHO makes some of the best quality firearms in the world.
Last edited by RGVshooter; 07-15-2018 at 10:42 PM.
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07-15-2018, 11:18 PM
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"MY ADVICE"- DON'T!
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom 45
I've been thinking about putting a dab of super glue on the key slot and the flag (to the frame not the hammer!) as some added insurance against accidental movement.
I haven't tried it yet and I'm not sure how it would hold up to cleaning solvents...
Just a thought.
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Putting glue, or in my case loktite , anywhere near sensitive (trigger/hammer/) moving parts & it will drip into wherever you LEAST want it to go! Please don't ask how I know. I got THE LECTURE from the smith on that fiasco.
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07-16-2018, 03:50 AM
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Oh great, now people are telling me I bought a used gun. One more thing for me to fret about.
I'm pretty sure it was factory new, as advertised. The cylinder ring may be from me dry firing 100 times.
The trigger and hammer were almost that dark when I got it, so who knows. In any case, it's going to be well-used before long.
It's a 629, btw. I mis-typed.
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07-16-2018, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by privateinvestigator
Oh great, now people are telling me I bought a used gun. One more thing for me to fret about.
I'm pretty sure it was factory new, as advertised. The cylinder ring may be from me dry firing 100 times.
The trigger and hammer were almost that dark when I got it, so who knows. In any case, it's going to be well-used before long.
It's a 629, btw. I mistyped.
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Like I said before.... 99% of what I read on any of these online forums is baloney... How can someone possibly tell if it's new or used when they;
1. They weren't with you when you purchased it.
2. Haven't even seen it in person.
3. Are quite possibly not 100% a revolver enthusiast like myself, in other words, they may own 1 or 2 revolvers but mainly shoot semi autos. I do not own any semi autos.
4. Fail to realize that turn lines on a cylinder are normal and will appear on the first day of owning a revolver and 3 boxes of ammo, which if my math is right is 150 rounds then yeah dude, you're gonna have a turn line on the cylinder. Perfectly normal & to be expected. It's not unusual at all to see a brand spank'n new revolver at the shop with a faint turn line. Smith functions checks the guns before they ship. It's a firearm guys, not a new Mercedes.
My biggest complaint about these online forums is people have a tendency to overthink issues and within 2-4 posts the conversation drifts into fantasy, and facts become a afterthought.
My personal advice based on what I've read here and my own personal experience with S&W revolvers is this.
1. What I would do if this was mine is to take the key that came with the pistol and turn the key fully to the left to turn the lock "ON". Then turn the key fully to the right to "OFF". This will do two things. ONE. It's possible that the lock may not be fully in the "OFF" position when it left the factory and TWO, this will give you a physical "feel" of the lock when you activate it ON & OFF so you know how that detent feels, knowing that a properly maintained firearm, that lock will not self activate with normal use. It should have a positive feel to it when you turn it on & off. If it doesn't, then give customer service a phone call, it doesn't take that long to call them, and bring up your concern to them.
2. Some guy suggested using a adhesive to keep the flag by the hammer in place. Hahaha that is a waste of time because in order for any adhesive to work, it must have something to grab on to. Any type of glue on stainless steel will slip right off by lunch time, I promise you that, especially when most firearms are exposed to oils & solvents.
3. A S&W 629 is a stainless steel 44 magnum. Not sure of the revision # you have but since you have the internal lock, it's already has the frame mounted firing pin. No amount of dry firing is going to hurt it.
Last edited by RGVshooter; 07-16-2018 at 11:41 AM.
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07-16-2018, 01:06 PM
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Is This As Bad As It Looks
SELL IT AND BUY A GLOCK !
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07-16-2018, 02:52 PM
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I like the forum, but it is time to let the lock hate die a peaceful death. I would prefer that we continue to have S&W revolvers than let them die like Colt did. There is always the clunky Ruger forum for those that don’t like S&W revolvers anymore.
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07-16-2018, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOBA
I like the forum, but it is time to let the lock hate die a peaceful death. I would prefer that we continue to have S&W revolvers than let them die like Colt did. There is always the clunky Ruger forum for those that don’t like S&W revolvers anymore.
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Agreed. I like ALL S&W revolvers...vintage and current production.
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07-16-2018, 06:20 PM
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privateinvestigator, I also have a 627 Pro like Collo Rosso and also like his and yours, the flag stands proud about as much as yours. And no problems at all with my 627 either. And I don't spare it by running mouse poot loads either. It's probably had around 3K rounds through it so far.
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07-16-2018, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyj
SELL IT AND BUY A GLOCK !
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Jimmy I don’t want a glock. My s&w guns are range guns.
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07-17-2018, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CScott
I don't know what that gun is, but it looks like a 6 shooter to me. Not a 696.
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Good catch, that is indeed a six shot revolver. Clearly with a chamber at the bottom of the cylinder, and two between. With the one on the top, and the two on the other side that is six rounds. That is not a 696.
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07-17-2018, 12:14 AM
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Every time I cycled the action on my 357 Night Guard in .41 Mag the flag flopped and attempted to engage.
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07-17-2018, 01:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CScott
I don't know what that gun is, but it looks like a 6 shooter to me. Not a 696.
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Yup, stop notches between the flutes = 6 shot
5 shot revolvers have the stop notches in line WITH the flutes.
Definitely not a 696.
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07-17-2018, 07:51 AM
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"Oh great, now people are telling me I bought a used gun. One more thing for me to fret about."
I think that comment was just because of the good closeup photo you posted - it's easier to see something in those compared to just eyeballing one.
Next time post a fuzzy cell phone picture to prevent those comments.
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07-17-2018, 08:21 AM
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Too bad Lee doesn’t deny access to this part of the forum as he suggested in his sticky, as a start.
A ban wouldn’t bother me either.
I don’t have a single IL gun but don’t feel the need to bellyache about them.
Last edited by ladder13; 07-17-2018 at 08:30 AM.
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07-17-2018, 09:55 AM
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Banned
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyj
SELL IT AND BUY A GLOCK !
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07-17-2018, 12:59 PM
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Those locks are problems I had thought they fixed it but that might be a older one. Hate those locks by pass that and you will have no worries that is a safe issue that can cost you your life if it goes on if need. You think smith would get the idea when they have J frame models that you can order with out the lock. Never know why they just don't make the locks for the Anti American states as spl order just my 2 cents. Good luck I am sure Smith will help you if you if do not put the plug in. Someone here said it the AZ company is nice there right. I have seen the AZ company plug in person it is very nice plug/ I guess by pass unit.
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07-17-2018, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 500SNW
But you can remove the IL without plugging the hole...right? The plug is strictly for cosmetic reasons...isn't it???
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You do not need the plug. You can remove all the internal parts of the lock and then you know you will never have a problem.
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07-17-2018, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGVshooter
Like I said before.... 99% of what I read on any of these online forums is baloney... How can someone possibly tell if it's new or used when they;
1. What I would do if this was mine is to take the key that came with the pistol and turn the key fully to the left to turn the lock "ON". Then turn the key fully to the right to "OFF". This will do two things. ONE. It's possible that the lock may not be fully in the "OFF" position when it left the factory and TWO, this will give you a physical "feel" of the lock when you activate it ON & OFF so you know how that detent feels, knowing that a properly maintained firearm, that lock will not self activate with normal use. It should have a positive feel to it when you turn it on & off. If it doesn't, then give customer service a phone call, it doesn't take that long to call them, and bring up your concern to them.
3. A S&W 629 is a stainless steel 44 magnum. Not sure of the revision # you have but since you have the internal lock, it's already has the frame mounted firing pin. No amount of dry firing is going to hurt it.
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Thank you for the reassurance. I'm 99 percent sure this gun was factory new. I inspected it for a long time before signing the FFL. It had no turn ring on the cylinder. Yeah, the MIM parts weren't shiny silver, but I think that's normal. And what looks like abrasion on the metal in the picture is invisible to the naked eye.
And also, there was carbon only around 2-3 throats on the front of the cylinder, as if they'd fired 2-3 rounds at the factory and stopped there.
I took your advice about the lock. Looks like the flag just likes to rest where it is.
I watched a Hickok45 vid today on the 327 TRR8, and I noticed the flag on his gun sticks up by the hammer just like mine. Hickok doesn't seem to mind, so I'm not going to mind either.
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07-17-2018, 10:09 PM
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US Veteran
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I love it when I don't feel I have to get involved in a pi**ing contest.
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07-17-2018, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by privateinvestigator
Yeah, the MIM parts weren't shiny silver, but I think that's normal.
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None of them are shiny, they're heat treated at the factory hence the case hardened look.
Under the risk of getting flamed by the "purists", but I'm a stinker so I'm gonna say it..
It is arguable that MIM parts are of better quality than the hand fitted parts of yesteryear in that modern manufacturing of today produces a more tighter tolerance and better precision made part and still allows for mass production to meet consumer demand.
A cast part that is then hand fitted; such as on those of older revolvers that some people think is the holy grail, suggests to me, poor tolerances that require final fitting for proper function and
a final product where you would have thousands of the exact same model, but parts that may or may not exactly be interchangeable and even still, the overall smoothness & quality of work may vary from one firearm to the next.
This will explain the MIM process
Metal Injection Molding Process - MIM Process
Last edited by RGVshooter; 07-17-2018 at 11:41 PM.
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07-18-2018, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZretired
You do not need the plug. You can remove all the internal parts of the lock and then you know you will never have a problem.
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Thank you. I am about to take mine apart to replace a busted firing pin...and I figured since I have the side plate off, I might as well remove the IL while I'm at it. Here's another "head scratcher" for you folks - Will a revolver function properly if the hammer block is not put back in before reassembly? :
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