Range Report, a tale of two snubbies

[ABPOS]

So, last time I shot was last January due to a lousy year fighting lyme disease. So I'm really happy to say I somehow got back to the range today. Praise God! We'll see how much of a toll it will take on my body but I'm hoping not too bad.

I kind of did a comparison between my 442 and Colt DS. But my main focus was to just get over my nerves of going again and poke some holes. And mainly to shoot the 442, since it's the gun I carry whenever I leave the house. Or have pants on.

This is the first time I feel like I had some semblance of a group with my Colt. It still is a bigger grouping than the 442, but it shoots more to POI. The 442 shoots high but I like the grouping. I guess that's just how it's regulated and I need to start to adjust to a more 6 oclock hold. I've never really done that but I've always shot it high and right. Now it wasn't so much right as it was just high. If my memory serves me correctly I think there are actually 24 rounds in the Colt target so I kind of chewed out a hole with about 6 rounds close to each other.

The surprising thing was the Colt actually did a hair better at the 25 yard line. The only reason I shot 4 in each gun is I shot the 442 first and had a FTF. I should've just kept going around and see if it would fire again but I stopped after pulling the trigger 5 times and wanted to see how the primer looked. It looked dented. I'm hoping it was just an ammo issue. That is the first time I've ever had that happen with that gun. It was with PMC 132 grain FMJ. So because I only shot 4 rounds from the 442 I purposely only shot 4 from the Colt. I did not miss the target at all.

I'm almost thinking I might add the Colt to the carry rotation. It has classically always shot worse for me than the 442. But it might be "good enough" and have one extra round.

Next range trip I'll take them both and work on speed and see if one seems to do better than the other.

Because today all shooting was slow fire, Double action only. Mostly 7 yards other than the 4 rounds at 25 yards.

Personally, I didn't think that was completely horrible shooting for not shooting a whole year. And for a snubby at 25 yards, at least I kept it on the paper. I think all the dry firing I do paid off. No doubt I can improve.

Filing down the takedown lever really did the trick on not drawing blood. There were a few times my thumb was contacting it and it only kind of scuffed my thumb just a little. Yaaaay!!!!

Any input is welcomed.

[Texas Star]

I don't know a lot about Lyme disease except that it's bad, comes from ticks, and that Hugh Hefner's widow has it.

But for anyone with a disability and a year off from shooting, I think you did pretty okay. A lot of fully able bodied men can't shoot a snub that well.

Did you see if the dud round would fire in the Colt?

[Abbynormal]

Don't rely on 1 time to the range to make the decision on which gun to carry.
Use today to realize that you still have the capability to shoot well.
Today was just knocking the rust off of your confidence, physical ability
and renewing your skills.

Take them both out 2 or 3 more times and I think you will be surprised.
Even though this is the S&W Forum, that Colt prints a whole lot tighter and at point of aim.

I ALWAYS took a box of wadcutters, a box of my standard load of158 gr cast SWC's
and a box of what I planned to carry, when I tried a new Snubby or hadn't shot it in a while.

Use the wadcutters to acclimate yourself to the gun, the SWC's to get down to business
and the carry rounds for proof. Hope that helps. YMMV!

[ABPOS]

You say the Colt prints tighter but the 7 yard group is definitely bigger. And always is whenever I compare the 2. But it is usually closer to point of aim. Which there is something to be said for that. I didn't think it would be more accurate and precise at 25 yards. That was sort of mindbender. I think when I go next time it will be fast shooting up close to see which does better and do some more 25 yard slow fire to see if I get the same results.

I thought the 442 did good though. It is really nice to carry and with the tamer grip goes into the hand really well on the draw. I rarely fumble it. I haven't practiced drawing a much with the Colt. But there are a lot of things I like better about the Colt. Almost everything BUT the trigger. Which is kind of a big deal. If you could combine the silky smoothness with the smiths ability to get easier later in the pull, you really would have a nice trigger. But the stacking of the Colt makes it a bit harder to shoot I think.

For a long time I thought it was out of time because a gunsmith at a gun shop said it was. Then I did a lot of researching and also took it completely apart and put it back together and I'm pretty convinced it's working properly. It locks up well in DA. Although it locks early. When shooting fast. I was shooting sort of slow today because trying to be real accurate.

[snubbyfan]

[ShivasIrons]

Good shootin! I love snubs!

Back in the day, I had an old school cop instructor who had a great snub story. In a Philly accent with more colorful English... "A snub is for dirty work. Put the barrel in a guys ribs and squeeze off all 5. Bloody mess..."

Every time I shoot my snubs at the 50 yard gong, I think of that story.

[brucev]

Lyme disease is tough! Very glad you felt like going to the range.

Both of those revolvers are beautiful. Your on target results are just fine. In Realville, a whole lot of people would be pleased with such DA shooting. Makes sense. DA shooting w/ a snub is challenging. Sincerely. bruce.

[ABPOS]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate that comments!

The thumbpiece on the 442 still did kind of a number to my thumb but it's better.

I'm convinced I'd be better off with a steel frame J and probably a hammered gun to move my thumb down just a bit. Or I need to file the thumbpiece more.

I really would like to try a 36/60/49/649. I think I would like them better than the 442 and I doubt I'd notice the extra weight while carrying. I carried the DS for a long time. The airweights are certainly very easy to carry, but it's not like the steel ones are THAT much heavier.

[kthom]

ABPOS,

Your first challenge is to shoot an actual group, even if it's not nearly as small as you'd like it to be. A group is generally recognized when all the rounds fired are about equally grouped around your point of aim regardless of where the actual grouping is located with respect to your point of aim. Yes, taking a six o'clock hold with that 442 would be a good place to start.

But if you will keep practicing consistently, the overall size of your group will begin to shrink. Just focus on a good sight picture and hold it as smoothly as you can at the same exact aiming point. Everybody has a "wobble" area since none of us can ever hold exactly still for every shot. With a good consistent grip, begin to squeeze your trigger smoothly all the way through. Don't make the gun go off when you think it's lined up on the aiming point. Just hold your aiming point as closely as you can to the same place, and while your sight picture is moving around a bit, keep squeezing until the firing of the gun surprises you. With practice, your wobble area will be reduced and so will your group size! If you make the gun go off when you think you want it to, because the gun is moving a bit, the point of impact will be somewhere other than where the gun was aimed at the time you made it go off, and you will likely jerk it a bit in the process. No telling where that round will land.

From what I see, you are doing a pretty fair job of shooting your rounds pretty consistently from both revolvers. Just concentrate on the basics while squeezing till the gun fires when the trigger reaches that point, and then follow through as the gun recoils. You will be surprized at your improvement over a period of time. Your dry fire practice apparently has paid off. Just remember that you can develop a bad habit as easily as a good one, but the bad habits are hard to overcome!

[ABPOS]

Everything you explained I feel like I did. LOL. I'm pretty sure I know the basics. But there is always room for improvement. Hopefully if I keep being able to get to the range more regularly, it will help.

I know one thing, focusing on the front sight of the 442 is not all that easy. It's still pretty blurry. Bad eyes. It could be because I painted it white (but that's better to pick up in low light), but I think it's more about how small it is. Possibly. I can see the DS's sights better and my 6" model 19 is crisp as heck. I might benefit from a 3" gun, with bigger sights.

Some day I might want to try a laser. These eyes just aint what they used to be. It could also be because when I shoot outside I don't have that problem as much. A lot more light. I shot indoors yesterday. The upside to indoors is there is no wind. At my outdoor range, the wind is usually pretty stiff. It's right on Lake Michigan. A lot of times the wind is so stiff that it'll move my arms around when holding the gun. LOL. Every once in a while there isn't much wind but it's rare.

Either way my group is smaller on the 442's than the Colt's.

[ggibson511960]

That primer indentation looks seriously off-center. That's the kind of misalignment that will go unnoticed 90+% of the time, but is it good enough to rely on? Remarkable for a S&W handgun of any type. Reinforces the need to actually shoot these things if you're going to rely on them for protection. Despite all the stories we read about on the Internet complaint forums, today's firearms are remarkably reliable. We get lulled into complacency. I know I do. I just wrongly assume near 100% reliability.

[atx357]

Something I did for my 642 was to figure out exactly where it was hitting with exactly the ammo I wanted to carry in it (in my case 158gr FBI load) make careful notes of the exact distance (I shot at 25 yards) and the exact offset in inches to the center of the group (with that load at that particular distance) and then....
I sent it to Tooltech and had them mill the barrel and install a pinned in tritium front sight of a custom height that exactly centered my groups.

They also slightly milled out the groove in the top strap to get a little more light gap.

Result--I have a big bright white front sight that glows at night...and is perfectly (I mean perfectly) zero'd with the ammo I wanted. It is by far the best snubby I've owned--Hits precisely to point of aim at 25 yards with my carry ammo.

It wasn't cheap--maybe around $200? But I highly recommend it. I pick up the front sight super quick (white outline, tritium center), even in low light, and I know that gun shoots exactly where I point it.

On the other hand, I did permanently modify the gun. But other pinned-in front sights can now be installed if desired.

[yep380]

Nice shooting!

If you want to check out a heavier snub, look for a 640. I just picked up a used 640-2 that I really like.

[ABPOS]

Originally Posted by ggibson511960

That primer indentation looks seriously off-center. That's the kind of misalignment that will go unnoticed 90+% of the time, but is it good enough to rely on? Remarkable for a S&W handgun of any type. Reinforces the need to actually shoot these things if you're going to rely on them for protection. Despite all the stories we read about on the Internet complaint forums, today's firearms are remarkably reliable. We get lulled into complacency. I know I do. I just wrongly assume near 100% reliability.

I've always wondered if it's something to be concerned about. I don't think they are all like that. I saved all my brass and I can look but it's from 3 guns. The Colt's usually looks off center too. I'm not sure about my Model 19. I'll have to check next time.

Can anyone look at theirs and see if they are off center?

[ABPOS]

Originally Posted by atx357

Something I did for my 642 was to figure out exactly where it was hitting with exactly the ammo I wanted to carry in it (in my case 158gr FBI load) make careful notes of the exact distance (I shot at 25 yards) and the exact offset in inches to the center of the group (with that load at that particular distance) and then....
I sent it to Tooltech and had them mill the barrel and install a pinned in tritium front sight of a custom height that exactly centered my groups.

They also slightly milled out the groove in the top strap to get a little more light gap.



Result--I have a big bright white front sight that glows at night...and is perfectly (I mean perfectly) zero'd with the ammo I wanted. It is by far the best snubby I've owned--Hits precisely to point of aim at 25 yards with my carry ammo.

It wasn't cheap--maybe around $200? But I highly recommend it. I pick up the front sight super quick (white outline, tritium center), even in low light, and I know that gun shoots exactly where I point it.

On the other hand, I did permanently modify the gun. But other pinned-in front sights can now be installed if desired.

That is a very good idea and practical way to deal with that. Good job!

[ABPOS]

Originally Posted by yep380

Nice shooting!

If you want to check out a heavier snub, look for a 640. I just picked up a used 640-2 that I really like.

I do like them a lot. But I want a hammer. I carry AIWB pretty much exclusively and I like the idea of having a place to put my thumb on when holstering. Even if it's bobbed.

[yep380]

Originally Posted by ABPOS

I do like them a lot. But I want a hammer. I carry AIWB pretty much exclusively and I like the idea of having a place to put my thumb on when holstering. Even if it's bobbed.

I think you’re right on track with a 36 or a 49 then.

When I think snubby smith, an M36 is what comes to mind.