Cylinder Locking Up - Model 317-3 Kit Gun

[reppans]

Need advice on new .22LR Model 317-3 Kit Gun where the cylinder is frequently locking-up.

What appears to be happening is that a small amount of play in the extractor star is creating an unsupported gap near the rim. The pressure is causing the casing to bubble slightly into that gap which raises the rim slightly in the cylinder. Then, the high casing also pushes the cylinder forward into the barrel and the cylinder rotation completely locks up from the friction at both ends.

With <100 rounds from new, the lock-ups were biased toward various CCI (SV, Subsonic, Minimag, Stingers) rounds, it seemed to run OK on Federal bulk. Sent in back to SW for repair, and after a month or so, it was send back with the same problem - I don’t think they did anything, except maybe get lucky test firing a cylinder or two. Rounds 100-400 seem to lock-up randomly between CCI and Federal bulk. Today (rounds 400-600), the lock-ups were biased toward Federal Bulk.

FWIW, when it lock-ups, I either force the cylinder open, or now force rotate the cylinder with one hand, while hammer cocking with the other hand. Lock-ups are slowly reducing (from ~50% to ~10%?), as I believe the aluminum cylinder face is slowly being ‘shaved down’ by the steel barrel. I also have the 686, 617, 649 and 638 with no major issues.

This revolver is unreliable - I am rather disappointed with both the initial QC, and also the customer service which returned the gun with the same problem. I loath sending it back to S&W again, for another month, only to have them return it with the same problem. What would you suggest I do?

[shocker]

First, ejector rod screwed all the way in, then, maybe...gunblue490 says excessive oil between extractor star and cylinder can cause mischief. Never want to see "wet" anywhere on a Smith.

[armorer951]

There must be considerable end shake on the cylinder to allow it to move forward to the point of touching the barrel extension. Is the barrel/cylinder gap at zero when the cylinder is closed?.. Can you measure the rear gauge or headspace with feeler gauges? The headspace between the closed cylinder and the breechface should be .008" - .010".

If it's fully loaded when firing, it seems the shells in the neighboring chambers would support the extractor enough to prevent the obvious bulging of the casings. Are you able to insert the live rounds fully down in to the chambers??

[CAJUNLAWYER]

I'd send this post-your excellent pictures and the fired cases to Smith. It ain't supposed to be doing that. The cylinder ain't supposed to be scraping against the forcing cone pure and simple.

[reppans]

Thanks for the help guys.

Originally Posted by shocker

First, ejector rod screwed all the way in, then, maybe...gunblue490 says excessive oil between extractor star and cylinder can cause mischief. Never want to see "wet" anywhere on a Smith.

It’s not wet under the star... I do wipe it clean under there, with a barely oiled cotton patch, but definitely not wet. Never removed a star yet, but everything seems tight to me, at least the knurling on the rod end vs the cyclinder.

Originally Posted by armorer951

There must be considerable end shake on the cylinder to allow it to move forward to the point of touching the barrel extension. Is the barrel/cylinder gap at zero when the cylinder is closed?.. Can you measure the rear gauge or headspace with feeler gauges? The headspace between the closed cylinder and the breechface should be .008" - .010".

If it's fully loaded when firing, it seems the shells in the neighboring chambers would support the extractor enough to prevent the obvious bulging of the casings. Are you able to insert the live rounds fully down in to the chambers??

Cylinder gap to barrel seems ~0.005 and cylinder to breech face seems ~0.010-0.011. My 617 seems to have slightly tighter tolerances (0.009 does not fit breechface). Cylinder fore/aft movement seems pretty small.. closed, I cannot move it by hand to touch either barrel or breechface, can only hear a slight ‘click’ from near imperceptible movement. But you can see the scrape/gouge marks from the barrel in the pix above - that’s from freeing it from a jams.

When it’s clean (every 200-300 rounds session), live shells drop in/fall out easily, as it gets dirty, they need to be pushed down.

[reppans]

Originally Posted by CAJUNLAWYER

I'd send this post-your excellent pictures and the fired cases to Smith. It ain't supposed to be doing that. The cylinder ain't supposed to be scraping against the forcing cone pure and simple.

I did send the first pix and those bubbled casings in the first time.... but it cost me a month+ and no resolution/same problem. Only noticed the scraping on the cylinder face since been it’s back in my hands.

Think they might expedite my case the second time around?

[s&wchad]

My 317-1 suffered the same problem after about 5000 rounds. Endshake got so bad that the face of the cylinder would rub against the back of the barrel.

I sent it back to S&W on their dime and all has been well since. I suggest you give them a call.

[reppans]

Originally Posted by s&wchad

My 317-1 suffered the same problem after about 5000 rounds. Endshake got so bad that the face of the cylinder would rub against the back of the barrel.

I sent it back to S&W on their dime and all has been well since. I suggest you give them a call.

May have to do that...... again

[armorer951]

End shake can also occur on the yoke. Is the yoke screw in place and is the spring driven plunger working correctly?? There shouldn't be any front to back movement on the yoke either, when it is closed and the screw is in place. Try installing the yoke by itself, and add in the yoke screw. Can you move the yoke forward any when it is in the closed position?? (cylinder not installed) I would guess that the yoke retension screw in the sideplate is bad. Just curious, thanks

BTW, I agree that sending it back is the best option.

Carter

[reppans]

Originally Posted by armorer951

End shake can also occur on the yoke. Is the yoke screw in place and is the spring driven plunger working correctly?? There shouldn't be any front to back movement on the yoke either, when it is closed and the screw is in place. Try installing the yoke by itself, and add in the yoke screw. Can you move the yoke forward any when it is in the closed position?? (cylinder not installed) Just curious, thanks

BTW, I agree that sending it back is the best option.

Carter

Thanks.. personally haven’t disassembled a revolver yet, so am not sure of all the part names. All I can say is that the feel of the operation, movements, tightness, and play, seem consistent with 3 or 4 of my other Smith revolvers.

Guess it’s going back.... again

[lscocoa]

Send it in again ! Mine did the same thing and the front of the cylinder looked the same. When I got mine back it looked brand new as they refinished the cylinder.