Ammo for the M69

American1776 · Apr 19, 2020

I've been carrying a 2.75 inch model 69 with the Winchester Silvertip Magnum 210 gr. @ 1250. I shot 20 of these at the range some months back, and while they were stout, they didn't hurt (even with wood stocks). Seems like a good magnum powered load for this snub nose.

The American eagle full power 240 gr. stuff was actually painful to the hand. Shot a cylinder of it and said that's enough.

I'm thinking about 180 gr. Remington UMC JSP magnums (rated at 1,600!). I wonder what the velocity would be out of the 2.75 barrel? Has anyone shot these hi-vel rounds out of a snub M69?

I also have Underwood's 200 gr. .44 Spl. wadcutter listed at 1,000 ft/s.

Of these options, would the Silvertip Magnum be preferable over the 180 gr. magnums and the 200 gr. .44 spl?

Just thinking about options. thanks.

gen3guy · Apr 19, 2020

Unless you're worried that a crazed Water Buffalo might escape from the zoo, I'd stick with the Specials.

American1776 · Apr 19, 2020

gen3guy said:
Unless you're worried that a crazed Water Buffalo might escape from the zoo, I'd stick with the Specials.

I suppose a 200 grain wadcutter of .429 diameter going around 900 f/s from a 2.75 barrel is still effective.

Rammer Jammer · Apr 19, 2020

I'd be concerned about over penetration with those hot Remington 180gr. If you can find some of the discontinued Speer 200gr Gold Dot 44 Mag loads I'd opt for those. Or go with a stout 44 SPL load like the Underwood Bulldog loading.
44 Special 200 Grain Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point – Underwood Ammo

Paul105 · Apr 19, 2020

What is your intended use for gun/ammo?

Borderboss · Apr 19, 2020

Rammer Jammer said:
I'd be concerned about over penetration with those hot Remington 180gr. If you can find some of the discontinued Speer 200gr Gold Dot 44 Mag loads I'd opt for those. Or go with a stout 44 SPL load like the Underwood Bulldog loading.
44 Special 200 Grain Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point – Underwood Ammo

This is the exact message I was going to type. I carry the Speer 200gr Gold Dot Short Barrel .44mag, which is rated at about 1050fps. It's impossible to find anymore.

I think the Underwood option is a good one, because it's using a bullet of good construction that you should see expansion from. Conversely, I would not recommend the Buffalo Bore because I don't like the bullets they're using as I don't think they'll expand.

m657 · Apr 19, 2020

I've been working to find a nice accurate comfortable range load for my own 4.2" M69. I loaded some 165g TFPL and some 180g SWC at something a few grains less than their published top end recipes.

Didn't care for the underwhelming accuracy at 50' from either.

What I do like for both excellent comfort as well as good falling plate rack accuracy, is the cast 200g RNFPL in the 1050fps range depending on powder. YMMV

remnard · Apr 19, 2020

I just bought some black hills honey badgers in 44 spcl. Have not shot them yet but Roy Huntington did a review on youtube I think and ran them through a chrono. didn't look like unbearable recoil and he was praising them. I'll just use them for woods carry as there are too many bears around here now.

American1776 · Apr 19, 2020

Paul105 said:
What is your intended use for gun/ammo?

I carry this gun for defensive purposes off and on. Large aggressive animals are not out of the ordinary. about 5 years ago a large (180 lbs) rotty went off leash. The owner was known to encourage the dog's aggression. I had my then 1 year old daughter in a wagon, and a 44 magnum OCed. My hand went to the revolver (it was a Ruger Super Blackhawk), which At the time i had it loaded with 255 gr. Keith SWC @ 1050 (I think it was a buffalo bore load). I felt very well heeled then. The owner moved out of the neighborhood a year later.

I suppose one of my 1911's loaded with GI ball would have done the job if needed as well.

Paul105 · Apr 19, 2020

For your intended use, I'm not much help. Never used anything lighter than 240gr. Don't know if this helps but I chronoed some 305 gr ammo from Buffalo Bore and Underwood in 3 diff bbl lengths:

Buffalo Bore, 305 LBT LFN HC rated 1,325 fps
Underwood, 305 LFNGC Plated (HiTech?) rated 1,325 fps
LabRadar muzzle velocity at 33 deg F

S&W M69 2.75" ===> BB 1,195 fps ===> Under 1,147fps
S&W M69 4.25" ===> BB 1,276 fps ===> Under 1,248 fps
Ruger SRH 7.5" ===> BB 1,395 fps ===> Under 1,315 fps

In my experience heavy bullets lose less velocity in shorter bbls than lighter ones.

The 1,250 fps for the 210gr Silvertips is Mfg quoted velocity -- you are probably getting a bit less, how much only a chono would tell.

Both Win 210s and underwood should be adequate for your use.

If you don't reload, then whatever is avail might more relevant.

Paul

FWIW,

Paul

TMan51 · Apr 21, 2020

gen3guy said:
Unless you're worried that a crazed Water Buffalo might escape from the zoo, I'd stick with the Specials.

I like that one.

Guessing you don't handload for the M69, which has the best possible/all possible choices available, as such, I'd go with the .44 Special options too.

As I'm not slaved to the availability of factory loads, I find the Speer 240gr LSWC over 6.5gr of Red Dot, or 7gr of Unique to be the ticket @ 900fps. It approximates + the 230gr/.45 ACP @ 800fps, which has a lot of history stopping mean people with bad intentions.

kaaskop49 · Apr 21, 2020

attn OP

I just re-read your post and found you are asking specifically about factory loads... The W-W 210 grain .44 Mag Silvertip has been around for a long time and was designed primarily for self defense. It combines a somewhat lower velocity with a lighter bullet. You found it to be controllable, as it was intended to be. Since your priority is SD, I would stick with this load over the others, some of which are "planet wreckers."

There is a veteran poster on this forum who believes the M69 is skating on the edge regarding pressures. If this is a concern, Federal makes a nice 200gr LHP in .44 Special that I would not want to stand in front of. Very controllable, in my experience, but much lighter than the above magnum Silvertip. Up to you.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

Fishinfool · Apr 21, 2020

I think the Silvertip load is a good choice for your needs. Power, expansion, and decent controllability. A .44 spec. loading with a soft swaged lead HP at about 900 to 1000 fps would also be the ticket r/e controllability with expansion.

I would avoid the Rem 180 grain load. I have shot several boxes of that ammo thru a variety of .44 mags, including my 2.75 model 69. It is loaded HOT, and has one of the biggest fireballs / worst muzzle blast I have experienced in a 44 mag, especially in a short barrel. By the way, your model 69 looks great with those grips on it, they really change the look as compared to the factory rubbers.

Larry

American1776 · Apr 21, 2020

kaaskop49 said:
I just re-read your post and found you are asking specifically about factory loads... The W-W 210 grain .44 Mag Silvertip has been around for a long time and was designed primarily for self defense. It combines a somewhat lower velocity with a lighter bullet. You found it to be controllable, as it was intended to be. Since your priority is SD, I would stick with this load over the others, some of which are "planet wreckers."

There is a veteran poster on this forum who believes the M69 is skating on the edge regarding pressures. If this is a concern, Federal makes a nice 200gr LHP in .44 Special that I would not want to stand in front of. Very controllable, in my experience, but much lighter than the above magnum Silvertip. Up to you.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

Thanks for that detailed post. I assume the planet wreckers are the Remington 180 JSPs and the American Eagle 240 gr. stuff.

The Silvertip magnums will definitely get everyone's attention, but it's still manageable for an experienced wheelgunner.

I like the .44 mag Silvertip because on paper, it appears to mimic exactly the mid-level .41 magnum loads I carried in my model 58 (I no longer have a .41, and regret that).

American1776 · Apr 21, 2020

Fishinfool said:
I think the Silvertip load is a good choice for your needs. Power, expansion, and decent controllability. A .44 spec. loading with a soft swaged lead HP at about 900 to 1000 fps would also be the ticket r/e controllability with expansion.

I would avoid the Rem 180 grain load. I have shot several boxes of that ammo thru a variety of .44 mags, including my 2.75 model 69. It is loaded HOT, and has one of the biggest fireballs / worst muzzle blast I have experienced in a 44 mag, especially in a short barrel. By the way, your model 69 looks great with those grips on it, they really change the look as compared to the factory rubbers.

Larry

Thanks for the info and the wood grip comment.

I'll keep the 180 stuff for 'range fun'. It sounds like it mirrors the Rem. 210. JSP .41 magnum I used to shoot. Huge flame and loud roar.

Underwood makes a lead hollow point .44 spl. in the 1100 range. That might sound good to try.

Thanks again.

remnard · Apr 22, 2020

kaaskop49 said:
I just re-read your post and found you are asking specifically about factory loads... The W-W 210 grain .44 Mag Silvertip has been around for a long time and was designed primarily for self defense. It combines a somewhat lower velocity with a lighter bullet. You found it to be controllable, as it was intended to be. Since your priority is SD, I would stick with this load over the others, some of which are "planet wreckers."

There is a veteran poster on this forum who believes the M69 is skating on the edge regarding pressures. If this is a concern, Federal makes a nice 200gr LHP in .44 Special that I would not want to stand in front of. Very controllable, in my experience, but much lighter than the above magnum Silvertip. Up to you.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

What are his concerns with the 69?

gwpercle · Apr 22, 2020

Carry the load you can shoot accurately and controllable .
Only hits count ... a miss , or several misses , will only make things worse .
If that load is a 44 special , then go with it ...
Practice a lot to become proficient ... the first two shots are the most important .
Gary

diyj98 · Apr 22, 2020

Very nice grips, but you may find a number of rubber options that will let you shoot the hotter loads without the pain.

TMan51 · Apr 24, 2020

kaaskop49 said:
There is a veteran poster on this forum who believes the M69 is skating on the edge regarding pressures.

Some shooters think the same for the M29's, and history seems to indicate they are correct.

I have a M69, and it's my favorote .44M. And it absolutely will handle the SAAMI max level loads. But I seriously doubt it would do it forever. As I head west this fall, (I hope), I'll be hunting in an area where grizzlies are a problem, (cow permit). I'll have a can of pepper spray on my person, and my M69 in a holster in case the spray doesn't work. For that I loaded up a hundred 265gr FP's over 2400, the weight and bullet integrity make it a good choice. I'll use about 90 rounds to practice, and head west with 10 rounds. Most of the time I use a 240gr cast SWC over Herco, or 240gr Speer LSWC over Red Dot. Both loads are running well below the 38 KPSI, the current SAAMI limit. Because I don't want to shoot the M69 until it's loose, before I'm in a box.

I'll do the same when I draw a bull tag the following fall. But most of the time I'll be shooting a LSWC from Speer or Missouri over Red Dot. Paper and clay birds are just not that hard to kill.

Neal · Apr 30, 2020

Although I have not yet owned a 69, the subject of Win Silvertips pops up in these threads. A few years ago a good friend of mine shot a deer, broadside I believe, with a factory Silvertip round in 41 Magnum. Gun was a 4 inch Model 57. He told me the bullet zipped right though and did not expand at all. Might as well shot it with a small meplat cast bullet, or full metal jacket. He did get the deer because he hit vitals, but it was not an impressive kill. For this reason, and others, I do not trust Silvertips. What you use is your business and no one has a right to tell you not to, but I just had to throw that opinion out there.

Ammo for the M69

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