L.A.P.D. MODEL 68-2

Toyman · #1 04-23-2020, 05:13 PM

I found this Model 68-2 with barrel roll marked for Los Angeles Police Department wearing John Hurst grips at Las Vegas Antique Arms show in February.
Shipped September 1984.

Pine_Worker · #2 04-23-2020, 05:21 PM

Very interesting.

reccpd101 · #3 04-23-2020, 05:36 PM

Used to work with a former LAPD officer while teaching criminal justice part-time. He had one that was a 4 inch. I shot it a few times and really liked it but saw no advantage over a Model 66 357. Oh, I forgot political correctness !!!

CH4 · #4 04-23-2020, 05:44 PM

The Hurst grips on an LAPD gun are a nice touch.

ken158 · #5 04-23-2020, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reccpd101

Used to work with a former LAPD officer while teaching criminal justice part-time. He had one that was a 4 inch. I shot it a few times and really liked it but saw no advantage over a Model 66 357. Oh, I forgot political correctness !!!

The model 68 only came with the 6” barrel... I would think your co-worker had a 66 or 67.

CALREB · #6 05-01-2020, 12:59 AM

There were a couple guys who had the armory put 4" 66 barrels on their 68s. Guys made Det or something and didn't want to carry 6" guns , not sure what adjustment to the barrel had to be made , if any. The guns showed model 68 inside but had barrels that said 357 magnum. Of course they only chambered 38 specials. One had a patridge sight which was an oddity.
Toyman is your gun double action only or can you still cock it. Duty guns had to be D/A only, many were converted back after retirement. Before parts became scarce. Nice gun, beautiful grips.

Mehutch · #7 05-01-2020, 01:16 AM

From another post: -· Description: For sale from my long time collection is this Stainless Smith & Wesson Model 68 Revolver with 6" Barrel chambered for the .38 Special Cartridge. This piece was supposedly made for the California Highway Patrol at one time. Suffice it to say that it is a RARE S&W, as I have never seen another without CHP markings.

Good catch.

murphydog · #8 05-01-2020, 08:36 AM

This was a commemorative gun that some LAPD officers used as duty sidearms; if used as such they had to be converted to DAO. Some are seen with a rank and badge number engraved on the sideplate.

There is at least one LAPD officer here that knows quite a bit more about these and maybe he will chime in.

rubiranch · #9 05-01-2020, 10:33 AM

I recently sold my 68-2 CHP.

Toyman · #10 05-01-2020, 11:21 AM

The seller was a retired L.A.P.D. officer. He also had a model 14 that had been tweeked to shot PPC with Farrnat grips. He knew exactly what he had and told me the gun had been carried. He did not indicate if the gun was his originally.
He allowed me to function the gun before I bought it and I noted it was DA only.
I took the gun apart to give it a good cleaning, the gun was very dirty and note the single action notch had been removed off the foot of the hammer.

murphydog · #11 05-01-2020, 11:56 AM

The LAPD officers referred to the DAO conversion as “denutting”. You’ll have to ask them the origin of that term.

Toyman · #12 05-15-2020, 02:47 PM

I finally got the gun back from son and it needed a good cleaning.
This is a photo of the toe of the hammer showing the single action
notch has been ground off so the gun fires double action only.

cmj8591 · #13 05-15-2020, 08:05 PM

A good example of forward thinking police management. I guess it was easier to grind off the single action notch than it was to teach everyone how to properly handle a gun. I bet they took a couple of spark plugs out of the cruiser engines so that no one could drive fast. Did they only allow plastic knives in the cafeteria so that no one would hurt themselves?

CALREB · #14 05-16-2020, 05:50 PM

Well I guess you could think that way. Truth being, Im sure there may have been some negligent discharges, and maybe a few cocked revolvers pointed at suspects in the day. But Im sure that even real experts would agree that its hard to keep 8000 or so people from making a few mistakes, especially given all the different stressful situations that might occur, like holstering while running or fighting, anytime the gun might be accidently cocked without you knowing it. Or cocked to shoot, and then for some reason not fired and possibly holstered that way under stress.
And yes I know the trigger still has to be pressed. But please ask yourself, if you would carry a revolver cocked. If the answer is NO, then why ?, if you are sure YOU would never touch the trigger. I don't carry S/A autos even with a safety, but that's me.
Personally I think that back in the day, some very forward thinking police firearms instructors, determined that there was absolutely NO reason to have a single action capability on a revolver used for defensive reasons. Training proved that you could shoot faster and with just as much accuracy shooting double action only. So the S/A capability became a liability, especially in large revolvers with target hammers (model 14) that might be cocked inadvertently during a scuffle, while holstering with a jacket or coat on , in the seatbelt of a vehicle,(happened to me once with a Border Patrol type holster in my youth) or whatever. If you were never going to use it why have the possibility of it causing a problem.
Along with the fact that doing this would eliminate the issues caused by the few bonehead people you are always going to have ,(especially in large groups)that would be tempted to do things their way.
An addition bit , LAPD did not allow hammerless revolvers until the late 90s or so. Believe it or not this was a holdover due to the old practice of training with reloads. Officers were trained to pull the hammer back slightly and check their training ammo for high primers. I must confess that I ran every wadcutter through my gun in the same manner before every pistol match, even if it as factory ammo. Until I got old and lazy.

handejector · #15 05-16-2020, 06:32 PM

Neat Gun, great grips!

Quote:

Originally Posted by murphydog

This was a commemorative gun that some LAPD officers used as duty sidearms;

No, S&W marked them for the PD like that. not a commem.

Wanna see one I found hiding in my safe? It stays in a dark corner, but I managed to pull it out despite its resistance.

NOTE the overstamp on the frame:
L.A.P.D. MODEL 68-2-img_0624-jpg

This one DOES have a SA and it remains unfired, so I have to wonder if it is an overrun.

L.A.P.D. MODEL 68-2-img_0625-jpg

S&W never printed an Instruction Sheet for the Mod 68. They simply stuck a Mod 67 sheet in the box:
L.A.P.D. MODEL 68-2-img_0628-jpg

Toyman · #16 05-16-2020, 07:20 PM

Lee; As I understand the L.A.P.D. revolvers DA/SA and could be carried it altered. As far as the over stamp look like S&W pull model 66 frames to make model 68 guns, did not make a new run with exclusive model 68 stamp.
Liked the photo of the box.

Toyman · #17 05-16-2020, 07:24 PM

I checked mine AEU 4552 and it has the same over stamp.
Roy advised shipped September 5, 1984.

CALREB · #18 05-17-2020, 03:49 AM

I acquired this one from an officers widow in the mid 90s. She didn't know if it had been fired or not. It has never been "neutered" or denutted, which guys older than me used to say. It only has burn rings on 3 chambers, so I think its in good shape. I thought it had the wrong paperwork at first because it was for a model 67, not 66, till I found out that was correct. It has blond / maple grips. Maybe that was to match the blond batons CHPs had at one time, like on CHiPs. AET5060, so probably 1984?
These were one of only a few guns authorized for duty use that had any markings other than what the factory normally put on them. Officers badges engraved on them, while technically not approved, may have been done after the gun was registered, or got a pass at the armory. Ithaca shotguns, and SIS 45s being the only others. Swat Kimbers had special serial numbers. At least in my time , don't know since 2016.

CCantu357 · #19 05-17-2020, 05:37 AM

The Model 68 is one of the guns I would love to come across and have the opportunity to buy one. At the same time, a 6" Model 19 or 66 would be more practical.

All this talk of old LAPD revolvers also makes me want to go out and find a nice old Model 14. I believe Smith made a few 14s in the Classic line not long ago, but I am not sure. Either way, I would love it Smith brought out more 6" K-frames. The full lug 6" L-frames seem much heavier.

Enigmedic · #20 09-26-2022, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reccpd101

Used to work with a former LAPD officer while teaching criminal justice part-time. He had one that was a 4 inch. I shot it a few times and really liked it but saw no advantage over a Model 66 357. Oh, I forgot political correctness !!!

Sorry, but a 66 barrel will not fit a 68. 68 cylinder is markedly shorter than a 66 cylinder, to permit the forcing cone extending further back into the frame to meet the shorter 38 length cylinder. This was done on all Smith revolvers. They do not simply use a short chambered 357 cylinder for 38 Special guns. Doing so would create an excessively long amount of free travel before the bullet engages rifling. 68 could not be re-barreled with any 357 barrel without replacing cylinder as well; this is not only cost prohibitive, it ceases to be a model 68.
Department Armorers would not have performed the caliber swap for duty use as it requires retiming and hand-fitting, due to a foreign cylinder ejector star being married to an existing hand to rotate for cylinder.
Not sure what your friend had, but it wasn't a 4" 68.

CALREB · #21 09-27-2022, 01:44 AM

Well if a model 67 or 64 barrel would fit, that modification could have easily been done at the armory. Not sure if model 67 and 68 frames are the same. We had barrel set back tools and such, but if someone had a forcing cone issue, we just replaced the barrel. It was alot easier. We had probably a couple hundred model 67 barrels sitting around. We converted many a model 14 to 4" for guys that no longer wanted to carry a 6" for whatever reason. I never saw a 68 that had a barrel change ( probably because you paid alot more for the 6" barrel with Los Angeles Police Dept on it) so why make it into a plain model 67. But guys came in all the time with strange request. I know the model 67-3 came with a wide rib barrel like a 68 but no ejector shroud. Hard to find.. I know if someone had walked in and wanted to swap out that barrel. I would have offered them a model 67 in trade and saved all the extra effort.
Here are my 67 and my wifes, both had barrel swaps done sometime during our careers.

SmithNut · #22 09-30-2022, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CALREB

Well if a model 67 or 64 barrel would fit, that modification could have easily been done at the armory. Not sure if model 67 and 68 frames are the same. We had barrel set back tools and such, but if someone had a forcing cone issue, we just replaced the barrel. It was alot easier. We had probably a couple hundred model 67 barrels sitting around. We converted many a model 14 to 4" for guys that no longer wanted to carry a 6" for whatever reason. I never saw a 68 that had a barrel change ( probably because you paid alot more for the 6" barrel with Los Angeles Police Dept on it) so why make it into a plain model 67. But guys came in all the time with strange request. I know the model 67-3 came with a wide rib barrel like a 68 but no ejector shroud. Hard to find.. I know if someone had walked in and wanted to swap out that barrel. I would have offered them a model 67 in trade and saved all the extra effort.
Here are my 67 and my wifes, both had barrel swaps done sometime during our careers.

Bob,

Really like the bottom M67 in your pic, should I guess that one is your's instead of your wife's? The front sight having a Patridge like sight is a give-away for a dedicated revolver competitor...

CALREB · #23 10-02-2022, 05:54 PM

Yes , you are right. It was a modification that was popular at one time with guys that shot a lot. They used older model 10/64 barrels that had pinned sights. Just replace the low front sight with in this case an early model 17 sight.

Thats kinda the point I was making in my above post. Guy come in with a model 68 and wants a 4" barrel. They could have put a 4" 64 barrel on it and replaced the front sight with a pinned blue steel ramp or one of the 17 sights. it would look just like mine just no barrel lug. Also I know at one time S/W made some 38 special model 66s,before 1982 because they had pinned barrels, if they were made like the 68s those barrels would mate up with the model 68 and the barrel would say 38 special SW , just not have the police logo on the side. Heck if S/W had those barrels you could have had them do it. Almost all those "special run" guns had left over parts in case something messed up.

kbm6893 · #24 10-02-2022, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CALREB

Well I guess you could think that way. Truth being, Im sure there may have been some negligent discharges, and maybe a few cocked revolvers pointed at suspects in the day. But Im sure that even real experts would agree that its hard to keep 8000 or so people from making a few mistakes, especially given all the different stressful situations that might occur, like holstering while running or fighting, anytime the gun might be accidently cocked without you knowing it. Or cocked to shoot, and then for some reason not fired and possibly holstered that way under stress.
And yes I know the trigger still has to be pressed. But please ask yourself, if you would carry a revolver cocked. If the answer is NO, then why ?, if you are sure YOU would never touch the trigger. I don't carry S/A autos even with a safety, but that's me.
Personally I think that back in the day, some very forward thinking police firearms instructors, determined that there was absolutely NO reason to have a single action capability on a revolver used for defensive reasons. Training proved that you could shoot faster and with just as much accuracy shooting double action only. So the S/A capability became a liability, especially in large revolvers with target hammers (model 14) that might be cocked inadvertently during a scuffle, while holstering with a jacket or coat on , in the seatbelt of a vehicle,(happened to me once with a Border Patrol type holster in my youth) or whatever. If you were never going to use it why have the possibility of it causing a problem.
Along with the fact that doing this would eliminate the issues caused by the few bonehead people you are always going to have ,(especially in large groups)that would be tempted to do things their way.
An addition bit , LAPD did not allow hammerless revolvers until the late 90s or so. Believe it or not this was a holdover due to the old practice of training with reloads. Officers were trained to pull the hammer back slightly and check their training ammo for high primers. I must confess that I ran every wadcutter through my gun in the same manner before every pistol match, even if it as factory ammo. Until I got old and lazy.

Agreed. The NYPD authorized S&W and Ruger revolvers capable of being cocked even though they were advised not to do it. In February of 1985, NYPD officer Marvin Yearwood put his revolver to the head of Paul Fava, a kid suspected of breaking lightbulbs in a Bronx subway station, and cocked the hammer. Probably pulling a Dirty Harry act on him. BOOM! Blew the kid’s head off. The city being as slow as it was to make change, it took until July of 1987 to go to DAO revolvers, the S&W Model 64 and Ruger Police Service Six, and then the Ruger GPNY. The city couldn’t force the 35,000 cops carrying revolvers capable of being cocked to buy new ones, and they surely weren’t gonna pay for new revolvers for 35,000 cops, so the cops who had the older guns were grandfathered in.

Although I never saw it, it used to be a joke to reach into the cop’s holster in front of you standing roll call and cock the hammer on their revolver. The open top Jay-Pee holsters we used made it really easy to get to the hammer. It was poking right out of the top of it.

SG-688 · #25 10-02-2022, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CALREB

Here are my 67 and my wifes, both had barrel swaps done sometime during our careers.

I also suspect a cut frame under the slim profile of that pair of Hurst grips on the one with the model 64 barrel.

CALREB · #26 10-16-2022, 05:57 PM

No, Dept issued guns, so no cut frames. They didnt belong to us until we
paid 68 dollars and retired.
John didnt want to miss out on selling grips to guys with Dept owned weapons. If you look at the front of those grips you see some rather well placed finger grooves to cover the portion of the grip frame that could be cut on privately owned guns.