10mm/10mm mag vs the magnums?

Before this thread inevitably turns into some sort of competition between folks who associate the cartridge they carry with their own masculinity, lets get some facts out of the way before it all gets bogged down by tall tales regarding the explosive capabilities of various folks pet cartridges.

When comparing full-power loads, the 10mm Auto is roughly equivalent to .357 Magnum, maybe a touch more energy at best than .357 Magnum, but nowhere near a full-power .41 Magnum.
In terms of simple Energy Footpounds, both the .357 Magnum and .10mm Auto generate roughly 700ft-lbs of energy out of a handgun with a 6" barrel when comparing full-power loads.
Some folks will claim that they've gotten 1000ft-lbs or more out of a 10mm Auto handload, which would be approaching .41 Magnum performance, but the issue is that they're seldom forthcoming regarding the exact details of precisely how they managed to achieve 1000ft-lbs or more. Obviously those numbers are possible with a combination of a lightweight bullet, hot load, and/or a carbine-length barrel, but at that point it's no longer a fair comparison because a lightweight/hot .357 Magnum load fired from a 16"+ barrel is probably going to perform similarly.
Furthermore, assuming lightweight bullets are used, then congratulations, you've got a round which looks really impressive on paper in terms of sheer numerical values, yet isn't really practical to use in any particular role. So yeah, maybe it comes close to .41 Magnum in terms of raw numerical figures, but in terms of actual performance it most likely wouldn't come anywhere near close.

Folks often argue that .357 Magnum is superior to 10mm Auto because it will penetrate deeper, but 10mm Auto carries more momentum, so it's a trade-off. Besides, both are typically going to pass straight through whatever animal in North America you're going to shoot with either, or at the very least they'll go as deep as you need them to go, so you can pretty much ignore that argument because it's about as meaningful as "My dad could totally beat up your dad" not to mention about as productive.

Very well written Forte!

stansdds said:

I have no experience with the 10mm Magnum, but it strikes me as being a substitute for a revolver chambered in 41 Magnum.
Personally, if I need that sort of power, rather than rechamber a 10mm revolver into a hard to find boutique caliber,
I'll buy a 41 Magnum revolver or use the 44 Magnum, which is much easier to find.

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You realize that once you ream your 10mm Auto cylinder out to 10mm Magnum your DON'T have to shoot only 10 MAG in it?

You can STILL shoot 10mm Auto which means you STILL can shoot 40 S&W in it, just like before.

Starline produces 10 MAG brass & pre-pandemic it was readily available. Nothing is now.

But, as of today, Starline's website will accept a backorder for 10 MAG but will not accept orders for any of these others.

And jacketed .40/10mm bullets are far more plentiful, & varied, than .41 bullets. I have three .41s, I know.

Also, why do you have to choose between one cartridge or another. The more the merrier.

A wheelgun chambered in 10 MAG is just another tool to use as seen fit.

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If case volume doesn't convince people which cartridge packs more power, I wonnder how many people here would pick a 350c.i. V8 over a 427c.i. V8 if you wanted the most power, all things equal.

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BLUEDOT37 said:

You realize that once you ream your 10mm Auto cylinder out to 10mm Magnum your DON'T have to shoot only 10 MAG in it?

You can STILL shoot 10mm Auto which means you STILL can shoot 40 S&W in it, just like before.

Starline produces 10 MAG brass & pre-pandemic it was readily available. Nothing is now.

But, as of today, Starline's website will accept a backorder for 10 MAG but will not accept orders for any of these others.

And .40/10mm bullets are far more plentiful, & varied, than .41 bullets. I have three .41s, I know.

Also, why do you have to choose between one cartridge or another. The more the merrier.

A wheelgun chambered in 10 MAG is just another tool to use as seen fit.

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If case volume doesn't convince people which cartridge packs more power, I wonnder how many people here would pick a 350c.i. V8 over a 427c.i. V8 if you wanted the most power, all things equal.

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Fully aware that after reaming, a 10mm Magnum cylinder will still safely accept and fire 10mm Auto. As for a 350 small block Chevy vs a 427 big block, you can get more power out of the big block, but it comes with the penalty of more weight and increased fuel consumption, which makes it less appealing for daily use.

44 magnum is still top dog in both power and accuracy in your list of cartridges ... (old Elmer Keith got this one right too).

We are Not counting the 500 S&W Magnum ...that's a whole other level of power .
Gary

BLUEDOT37 said:

Case capacity is the deciding factor:

Capacity in H²O Wt./gr. (All are Starline cases)

10 Auto = 24.1gr

357 Mag= 26.7gr

10 Mag = 31.8gr

41 Mag = 33.8gr

44 Mag = 37.6gr

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Powder = power

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This chart pretty much tells the story ... and along with powder capacity the 10mm uses the lightest bullets ... they start increasing in weight untill you hit the 44 magnum ...250 gr. to 300 gr. bullet weights .
Gary

I hear the 10 mm is equal to the 41 mag, this, that what ever so I figured I would ask the gurus here. I know nothing about the 10 mm rounds.

10 mm Auto is a great option. It's a 40 & W too. 44 mag is a fine option, Maximum power, 357 is great, versatile it's a 38 special . I'll keep all three.


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BigBill said:

I hear the 10 mm is equal to the 41 mag, this, that what ever so I figured I would ask the gurus here. I know nothing about the 10 mm rounds.

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Sorry that is misinformation. The 41mag is about 1.3-1.5x energy of the 10mmAuto. I would not want to think what a 41mag would do in a 1911 style pistol.
BUT The revolver only 10mmMAg is pretty close to 41mag

3rdgeargrndrr said:

I would not want to think what a 41mag would do in a 1911 style pistol.

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Guess you haven't seen the 460 Rowland conversion kit in a 1911. 44 Mag ballistics in 1911 platform.

Rosewood

BigBill said:

I hear the 10 mm is equal to the 41 mag, this, that what ever so I figured I would ask the gurus here. I know nothing about the 10 mm rounds.

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That is a myth that just will not go away. The 10mm Auto equals and can slightly exceed the energy of the 357 Magnum, but it falls well short of the 41 Magnum. Take a look at published handgun ballistics tables.

BigBill said:

I read all different answers to the question which one is more powerful? In a revolver.
The 10mm / 10mm magnum
Vs.
The 357 mg, 41 mg, 44 mg
Who's the top dog in a shootout, for accuracy, power?
I read the 10 mm is close to the 357 mag. But the posters say it's closer to the 41 mg. Is the 10 mm mag closer to the 41 mag? Where does the 44 mag place in this line up.
I understand everyone has a opinion but what's the honest truth.

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Taffin on the 10mm Magnum
Taffin Tests the 10mm Magnum

Well, from the ballistics expert who was a dedicated Wheelgun Man at heart, John Taffin believed the 10mm Magnum eclipsed the .41 Magnum, and that was from a long-barreled autoloader, the old IAI Mk IV.

The 10mm Magnum has definite applications as a hunting pistol and a long range silhouette pistol. Shooting informally at long ranges of 100 to 200 meters and using rocks as targets convinced me of this. Anything the .41 Magnum can do, the 10mm Magnum can also do and perhaps do it even a little faster and a little better. That is a tough confession for an old sixgun man to make. John Taffin.

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From the 6.5" barrel of a 'converted' S&W 610 (i.e., with cylinder chambers reamed to 10mm Mag specs), you can generate some really impressive fps/fpe stats across a wide range of 10mm/40-cal bullets, jacketed or hardcast.

Not to mention, from one platform, and using the same moonclips, you can shoot 3 cartridges: .40S&W, 10mm AUTO, & 10mm Mag.

As a hunting handgun, a 6.5" 610 or Ruger's long-barreled 10mm SRH (after undergoing the aforesaid Magnum conversion), the 10mm Mag would really shine when loaded with the newer generation of poly-coated and/or gas-checked, heavy HC boolits - those running from 200gns, 220gns, 230gns.

I think there is some confusion here with wording. The 10mm Auto falls short of the .41 mag, but sounds like the 10mm Magnum equals or possibly exceeds it depending on the load and weapon.

Rosewood

rosewood said:

I think there is some confusion here with wording. The 10mm Auto falls short of the .41 mag, but sounds like the 10mm Magnum equals or possibly exceeds it depending on the load and weapon.

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Maybe any confusion stems from the way the OP worded the question in his post (?).

He included, or referenced, the 10mm Magnum and seemed to be asking folks to compare it - and its smaller sibling, the 10mm AUTO - to the three traditional revolver magnums. No?

Frank Black said:

Maybe any confusion stems from the way the OP worded the question in his post (?).

He included, or referenced, the 10mm Magnum and seemed to be asking folks to compare it - and its smaller sibling, the 10mm AUTO - to the three traditional revolver magnums. No?

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Yes, but some of the responses seemed to have gotten them confused.

rosewood said:

Yes, but some of the responses seemed to have gotten them confused.

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YES anyone shoot with a well place well constructed bullet from any of these will have meet his maker.

So what is the point/value of this discussion?

Anyone can buy 357mag & 44mag revolvers, and 10mm autos. Nobody can buy 10mm magnum and 41mag is pretty rare too.

A 4" revolver is equivalent to a 5" pistol.

The 10mm and 357mag are in the same KE class. Both can do the work to shove a proper bullet a long ways through flesh and bone when penetration is wanted. And both can do the work to shove an expanding bullet to tear up a lot of tissue in a relatively short distance. Because the frontal area of the 357mag is smaller than the 10mm, 357mag bullets can penetrate further with less work.

The 44mag is in a higher KE class and can do more of the same.

The greater the resistance offered by the target, the greater the work required to shove a bullet through it.

"Use the right tool" - Anton Chigur in "No country for old men".

stansdds said:

As for a 350 small block Chevy vs a 427 big block, you can get more power out of the big block, but it comes with the penalty of more weight and increased fuel consumption, which makes it less appealing for daily use.

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LOL, now your trying to add restrictions to the comparison.

You can't make more power without burning more fuel, be it gas or gun powder.

Daily use?

More power, from more cubic inches will offset the extra weight.

Besides you can just make the block out of Sc/Al alloy & then you can pocket carry it.

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Again, Powder is Power

rosewood said:

The 10mm Auto falls short of the .41 mag, but sounds like the 10mm Magnum equals or possibly exceeds it depending on the load and weapon.

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I posted this previously:

BLUEDOT37 said:

A Starline 10MAG case has ~5.9% less capacity than a Starline 41MAG case.
I load my 165gr & 180gr 10MAGs to "approximately" 41MAG 170gr load data.

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Using actual measurements & weights, from my previous handloading data with the 10MAG & 41MAG, I verified something I had noticed but hadn't calculated before.

As mentioned, the empty case capacity of a 10MAG is ~5.9% (or 2.0grs) less than a 41MAG's, but bullet seating depth affects the final available capacity.

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In the 10MAG, a 165gr JHP loaded to 1.555" COAL (which is also max. COAL") is seated .265" deep in the case & uses 26.5% of the empty case capacity.

This leaves 23.37grs. of case volume available. (31.8gr-26.5%)

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In the 41MAG, a 170gr JHC loaded to 1.560" COAL is seated .305" deep (which is to the cannelure) in the case & uses 30.1% of the empty case capacity.

This leaves 23.63grs. of case volume available. (33.8gr-30.1%)

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The difference between the two is a surprising 1.1% or 0.26grs., a negligible difference.

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However,

In the 10MAG, a 180gr JHP loaded to 1.555" COAL (which is also max. COAL") is seated .306" deep in the case & uses 30.6% of the empty case capacity.

This leaves 22.07grs. of case volume available. (31.8gr-30.6%)

The difference between the two then changes to 6.6% or 1.56grs., still pretty close.

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If you have essentially the same amount of powder pushing essentially the same weight bullet then the 10MAGs slightly higher max. SAAMI pressure (37.5K -vs- 36K psi) comes into play.

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dla said:

Anyone can buy 357mag & 44mag revolvers, and 10mm autos. Nobody can buy 10mm magnum and 41mag is pretty rare too.

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Actually, any 10mm revolver, which you can buy, is potentially a 10mm Magnum. All that's required is for a competent wheelgun 'smith to ream the cylinders.

Over the years, as the possibility of the 'Magnum' conversion became more widely known among 610 owners, a number of 'smiths offered this service, e.g., Hamilton Bowen who was probably best known but there were others, like Gary Reeder.

The 10mm Magnum conversion can be done on Ruger's 10mm revolvers as well, not just the 610s.

Regardless of the particular revolver, however, I've always have a slight two-pronged quibble with it: it only makes sense when done on the same size 'frame' as found on a .41 Mag, AND for practical use in the field, the conversion only makes sense where there's a barrel of at least 6" to take advantage of the Magnum ballistics.

In Ruger's case, the bulky SRH is overbuilt for even the really hot, top-end 10mm AUTO loads; however, it's the perfect platform to convert into a '10mm Magnum Hunter.'