Question About A Model 64-5 NY-1 With CAI Import Markings

I've seen a 4" NY-1 Model 64 in a local store. Century Arms placed their mark on the left side of the frame just above the serial number.

What countries were these sold to? I've poked around on the Internet, but can't find any info on where they were used outside the U.S.

Did Century stamp it INSIDE the yoke? If so, that's a great move on their part, instead of plastered on the side of the frame, forward of the trigger.

Are you sure it is a NY-1 and not just a DAO Model 64?

I have a 4" DAO that came from overseas and one that came from Brinks.

But neither has the NY-1 stamp.

VictorLouis, no, it's dot type stamping right above the serial number on the radiused part of the frame, not in the window. It can easily be seen with the cylinder closed.

326MOD10, ya know, now you've got me wondering if it is stamped NY-1 or not. I looked at it a few weeks ago and thought I saw it, then looked at it yesterday, but didn't really look inside the yoke on the frame.

Either way with or without the stamp it'll work the same. It might be interesting to ask to take the grips off (Hogues) to see if it's an RB or SB, too.

Mine is on the inside of the frame above the model number. There is an article on them in the Model 64 area of SCSW 4.

I ran over to the store that had the 64 and it is a 4", HB, RB, NY-1.

It must have run into some brute-force gunsmiths in it's life because the knurling on the end of the ejector rod and the slot on the yoke screw are buggered up, and the grip back strap has been wire brushed. (To remove an etching or other incriminating evidence?) Other than that the trigger is smooth from start to finish with no stacking. It came with a 3" Bianchi 3S, left-handed holster for a revolver with a hammer spur. My 3" model 65's will fit in there perfectly. Now I can carry one on the right side and the left! (gotta go buy bigger pant, now)

LPD256, I did read the info on them in an older edition of the Standard Catalog of S&W. It's still hard to say where it went while outside the country after leaving S&W, though.

It's now residing in my safe with my 2" NY-1.

Glad to hear it is a NY-1.

Wonder if it was an overrun or left overs when NYPD moved to something new?

Good catch either way.

CA Escapee said:

I ran over to the store that had the 64 and it is a 4", HB, RB, NY-1.

It must have run into some brute-force gunsmiths in it's life because the knurling on the end of the ejector rod and the slot on the yoke screw are buggered up, and the grip back strap has been wire brushed. (To remove an etching or other incriminating evidence?) Other than that the trigger is smooth from start to finish with no stacking. It came with a 3" Bianchi 3S, left-handed holster for a revolver with a hammer spur. My 3" model 65's will fit in there perfectly. Now I can carry one on the right side and the left! (gotta go buy bigger pant, now)

LPD256, I did read the info on them in an older edition of the Standard Catalog of S&W. It's still hard to say where it went while outside the country after leaving S&W, though.

It's now residing in my safe with my 2" NY-1.

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It could have been exported after service with NYPD to another country then imported back in the last 30 years. Who knows? Glad you found one. Mine is a fun shooter. Enjoy.

LPD256 said:

It could have been exported after service with NYPD to another country then imported back in the last 30 years. Who knows? Glad you found one. Mine is a fun shooter. Enjoy.

Click to expand...

Yeah, there’s no telling where it went; nothing on the Internet. I’ve got other K-Frames, but this is the first HB 4” I’ve gotten. Should be fun.

Remember that NYPD did not issue sidearms; they were individual officer purchases. It makes the oversea trip a little more ... curious to me.

The M64 NY-1's came out in 1987 and were available as new purchase guns until 1993 when the Glock, SIG, Smith and Ruger were available (the last being very seldom seen).

All guns were private purchase; once you bought it, it was yours to lawfully dispose of as you saw fit.

So how does an M64 NY-1 wind up with import markings?

A few possibilities. The likliest is that it was part of a group that went to NYPD or were in the pipeline to NYPD and were returned for credit back to the factory when revolvers were removed form the on-duty authorization list.

I was in the gun room at the Equipment Bureau during the change over and there were hundreds of boxed Rugers and Smiths that were taking up space because they couldn't be sold as on-duty guns anymore.

I strongly suspect that the manufacturers took them back and used them to fill contracts elsewhere.
Another possibility, less likely I think, is that some cop sold his gun off when he was ale to get an automatic and the revolver then went into the used gun market and somehow got exported.
Seems more unlikely to me, seeing as how an individual gun exportation is beyond the practices of most dealers/shooters (although technically possible); its a practice that is only financially feasible when you deal in volume.

I'm going to go with factory returned gun that was exported by the factory on a contract.

Interesting side note: At the time (mid 1990's) that the unused revolvers were sitting in HQ, there was talk of the guns possibly being sent to Haiti as armament for their national police. Haiti was undergoing one of it's periodic social re-sets and the UN was stepping in. Ray Kelly had just finished his first tenure as PC and was in Haiti as the UN's Director of the International Police Monitors of the Multinational Force from 10/94 through 3/95. There was scuttlebutt at 1PP that Kelly was going to have the arms transferred from NYPD to the UN International Police in Haiti. Don't know if thats what happened but that ws the rumor. I suppose if one searched for pictures of the UN International Police presence in Haiti in the mid 1990's they could look for images.

There was precedence for this sort of thing, the department having done something similar for the UN in 1948.

Another aside: When the automatics were finally approved, every kid who had just come on the job and gotten an M64 wanted an automatic. They would sell their M64 and get a Glock. For a period of time I was buying M64's literally by the bucket load. I'd go to Jovino's and Chinese Charlie would have five-gallon pails full of M64's that he would sell me by the bucket. He paid $25 for them from the kids!

Best,
RM Vivas

I am sure RM Vivas is correct. The change to the semi auto happened very suddenly. Like days before a huge 2400 recruit class. So suddenly that the paperwork I received with gun prices had the revolvers crossed out and the semi auto options handwritten in. I have a Ruger Service Six that was made for the NYPD but never made it due to the sudden change to the GPNY. Ruger sold them all to Davidson’s.

I wasn’t aware that any of the 4” guns had round butts. The 3” models did.

kbm6893 said:

… I wasn’t aware that any of the 4” guns had round butts. The 3” models did.

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Here you go!

4” RB NY-1’s are hard to find.

NYC cops are notoriously “frugal”. We had to buy everything except our vest and our shield. They even made us pay for the large safety pin to hold your shield to your shirt. Ten cents for that. And must be paid with a dime only. We got an annual uniform allowance of $1000 which wasn’t half what you needed your first year. Every year after that you made some money on it. It used to be a tax free separate check but then they started adding it to your paycheck and taxing it. That’s why you see some cops with 3 year old pizza stains on their shirts. I’m convinced that was why they went from light blue shirts to dark blue. Hid the stains better.

Kids living at home in the academy will buy all kinds of stuff, but that didn’t last long. We used to have to buy our own guns. I remember the Glock was about $325, the S&W 5946 about $475, and the Sig 226 about $680. Most guys chose the Glock. Night sights were not mandatory at first. Most didn’t bother with them. About 2 years after we got the 9MM, some grant was passed and the guns were free. Just had to pay for the night sights and belt, holster, and mag pouch.

And the selling frenzy began. Guys with revolvers were selling their revolvers for about $150 to offset the cost of night sights and leather. Revolver gun belt and duty gear included. I should have bought dozens. Funny how a DAO 64 goes for way more now than a new Glock.

I found a like new in box 5946 in my local shop this year. Came with 4 mags. $400. Said NYPD right on the label. Dead night sights. I’m doing the paperwork and find the receipt from the Equipment Section for the gun. $85 for the night sights. Doubt the cop even bought the leather gear. Gun looked unused. The cop was assigned to the Midtown South Detective Squad, a very plum assignment. Cop was born in 1932. Probably came on the job in the late 50’s judging by his tax ID number. Certainly a boss or first grade detective. Got the free gun on his way out the door to retirement.

kbm6893 said:

NYC cops are notoriously “frugal”. We had to buy everything except our vest and our shield. They even made us pay for the large safety pin to hold your shield to your shirt. Ten cents for that. And must be paid with a dime only. We got an annual uniform allowance of $1000 which wasn’t half what you needed your first year. Every year after that you made some money on it. It used to be a tax free separate check but then they started adding it to your paycheck and taxing it. That’s why you see some cops with 3 year old pizza stains on their shirts. I’m convinced that was why they went from light blue shirts to dark blue. Hid the stains better.

Kids living at home in the academy will buy all kinds of stuff, but that didn’t last long. We used to have to buy our own guns. I remember the Glock was about $325, the S&W 5946 about $475, and the Sig 226 about $680. Most guys chose the Glock. Night sights were not mandatory at first. Most didn’t bother with them. About 2 years after we got the 9MM, some grant was passed and the guns were free. Just had to pay for the night sights and belt, holster, and mag pouch.

And the selling frenzy began. Guys with revolvers were selling their revolvers for about $150 to offset the cost of night sights and leather. Revolver gun belt and duty gear included. I should have bought dozens. Funny how a DAO 64 goes for way more now than a new Glock.

I found a like new in box 5946 in my local shop this year. Came with 4 mags. $400. Said NYPD right on the label. Dead night sights. I’m doing the paperwork and find the receipt from the Equipment Section for the gun. $85 for the night sights. Doubt the cop even bought the leather gear. Gun looked unused. The cop was assigned to the Midtown South Detective Squad, a very plum assignment. Cop was born in 1932. Probably came on the job in the late 50’s judging by his tax ID number. Certainly a boss or first grade detective. Got the free gun on his way out the door to retirement.

Click to expand...

A lot to unpack here….lets go!!

Back in the day you paid for your piece and the Equipment Bureau was actually “generous” enough to have loan accounts. Why get in deep with the Mob when you could get in deep with the Department!!

And as KBM683 points out, eventually you got your piece for free but paid for the night sights and eventually, the whole thing was on the arm.

The department initially went to a pilot program to test automatics on the street. It was a foregone conclusion that Glock would get a spot on the authourized weapons list; Transit (still a separate department then) was packing G17’s and even though the Glock was verboten in NYC proper, enough guys bought one on the sly that the annual shooting report, SOP9, used to have a chapter dealing just with shootings involving unauthorized off duty Glocks.

The real question was what would the alternates be.




S&W 5946 (400 guns), Sig P226 (400 guns) and the Ruger P89 (200 guns).

The SIG was the priciest of these and for that reason was dubbed “The Gucci Gun” .

The Pilot Program to test the guns on the street was done by officers who volunteered (although I don’t doubt some were ‘volunteered’) to participate.

The motivation to be part of the program was that aside from getting to try a new and shiny toy, YOU GOT FREE LEATHER FOR IT!!! Yup, if you were part of the program you got a new holster and belt on The City’s dime!

By the way, the Smiths cost $425 each:

.
.
The Rugers were the deal at $283 each:

.
.
And of course the SIG “Gucci Gun” clocked in at $475 each:


These are the Department costs. I’m sure a little was added to cover mags, shipping, etc.

And yea once the guns were authourized every guy wanted one except for the retro guys who believed, as one gunsmith detective used to tell me, “Wheel guns for Wheel men!”.

Man, I was grabbing up 64’s and dinosaur M10’s cheap. Some of you may remember when I was selling them back then.

The Ruger auto’s faded from the scene. ESU was packing Beretta 92 DAO’s but the were shearing locking lugs off and experiencing cracked slides. People will say that’s BS but I saw a cigar box full of them and I’m told that when one of the Beretta execs came to the range to defend the M9/M92’s against charges of locking lug failure, he was presented with the box and became rather quiet.

Anyway, just some observations.

Best,
RM Vivas

By the way, how can you ID a gun from the pilot program?

The Department issues a letter code for gunmakers.

The Glocks had the letter Q electric pencilled into the frame. That would be a pilot gun.

The SIGS had the letter U very professionaly stamped on the frame by the factory; my P226 is one of these and I'll dig out a picture of it some time.

The factory code for Ruger rifles is L or sometimes LL; don't know if that applied to the handguns as well.

Can't recall what the code was for S&W; maybe one of the donosaurs can remember.

RM Vivas said:

A lot to unpack here….lets go!!

Back in the day you paid for your piece and the Equipment Bureau was actually “generous” enough to have loan accounts. Why get in deep with the Mob when you could get in deep with the Department!!

And as KBM683 points out, eventually you got your piece for free but paid for the night sights and eventually, the whole thing was on the arm.

The department initially went to a pilot program to test automatics on the street. It was a foregone conclusion that Glock would get a spot on the authourized weapons list; Transit (still a separate department then) was packing G17’s and even though the Glock was verboten in NYC proper, enough guys bought one on the sly that the annual shooting report, SOP9, used to have a chapter dealing just with shootings involving unauthorized off duty Glocks.

The real question was what would the alternates be.

S&W 5946 (400 guns), Sig P226 (400 guns) and the Ruger P89 (200 guns).

The SIG was the priciest of these and for that reason was dubbed “The Gucci Gun” .

The Pilot Program to test the guns on the street was done by officers who volunteered (although I don’t doubt some were ‘volunteered’) to participate.

The motivation to be part of the program was that aside from getting to try a new and shiny toy, YOU GOT FREE LEATHER FOR IT!!! Yup, if you were part of the program you got a new holster and belt on The City’s dime!

By the way, the Smiths cost $425 each:

.
.
The Rugers were the deal at $283 each:

.
.
And of course the SIG “Gucci Gun” clocked in at $475 each:

These are the Department costs. I’m sure a little was added to cover mags, shipping, etc.

And yea once the guns were authourized every guy wanted one except for the retro guys who believed, as one gunsmith detective used to tell me, “Wheel guns for Wheel men!”.

Man, I was grabbing up 64’s and dinosaur M10’s cheap. Some of you may remember when I was selling them back then.

The Ruger auto’s faded from the scene. ESU was packing Beretta 92 DAO’s but the were shearing locking lugs off and experiencing cracked slides. People will say that’s BS but I saw a cigar box full of them and I’m told that when one of the Beretta execs came to the range to defend the M9/M92’s against charges of locking lug failure, he was presented with the box and became rather quiet.

Anyway, just some observations.

Best,
RM Vivas

By the way, how can you ID a gun from the pilot program?

The Department issues a letter code for gunmakers.

The Glocks had the letter Q electric pencilled into the frame. That would be a pilot gun.

The SIGS had the letter U very professionaly stamped on the frame by the factory; my P226 is one of these and I'll dig out a picture of it some time.

The factory code for Ruger rifles is L or sometimes LL; don't know if that applied to the handguns as well.

Can't recall what the code was for S&W; maybe one of the donosaurs can remember.

Click to expand...

Transit had Glock 17’s? I thought they were 19’s. I worked with two guys who had the Ruger. They kept them after we transitioned. Probably didn’t want to spend the money on something else.

Of course you are correct, but I remember the SIG’s being way more expensive. Maybe the job seriously marked them up. I remember them being nearly double the price of the Glock, but I’m probably wrong. It was 30 years ago.

I remember ESU experimenting with the Beretta. Surprised about the cracked slide issues. The 92F passed the military trials in 1985. The early ones were cracking slides but that was with hot submachine gun ammo, and a revision to the gun kept the slide from separating if it did crack, and the 92FS was born. The locking block was probably a big reason the contract wasn’t awarded. The job would have to replace them at qualification and that would cost money. Plus the Beretta’s were probably more expensive. But with the military and the LAPD, not to mention many other departments, carrying the 92FS for so many years, I wonder why the problem never came up there? I doubt it was the ammo we used, especially back then. The early NYPD 9MM ammo was just a fmj round, 115 grain, I believe. Not the Gold Dot that they carry today

I’m sure you’ll recall the issue with the early Glock 19 and the phase 3 malfunctions. Glock denied there was an issue and the job contacted Ruger for replacements. Then Glock sent an armorer to the range and our guns were worked on. Something to do with the ejection port, I recall.

kbm6893 said:

Transit had Glock 17’s? I thought they were 19’s. I worked with two guys who had the Ruger. They kept them after we transitioned. Probably didn’t want to spend the money on something else.

Of course you are correct, but I remember the SIG’s being way more expensive. Maybe the job seriously marked them up. I remember them being nearly double the price of the Glock, but I’m probably wrong. It was 30 years ago.

I remember ESU experimenting with the Beretta. Surprised about the cracked slide issues. The 92F passed the military trials in 1985. The early ones were cracking slides but that was with hot submachine gun ammo, and a revision to the gun kept the slide from separating if it did crack, and the 92FS was born. The locking block was probably a big reason the contract wasn’t awarded. The job would have to replace them at qualification and that would cost money. Plus the Beretta’s were probably more expensive. But with the military and the LAPD, not to mention many other departments, carrying the 92FS for so many years, I wonder why the problem never came up there? I doubt it was the ammo we used, especially back then. The early NYPD 9MM ammo was just a fmj round, 115 grain, I believe. Not the Gold Dot that they carry today

I’m sure you’ll recall the issue with the early Glock 19 and the phase 3 malfunctions. Glock denied there was an issue and the job contacted Ruger for replacements. Then Glock sent an armorer to the range and our guns were worked on. Something to do with the ejection port, I recall.

Click to expand...

Yea, Transit (Mole Patrol) had the 17's because they were getting state money through the MTA for guns. Same reason they could have hollow point ammo; it was state agency directive and they didn't have to kowtow to local politics. Just like Housing was Federal money.

The Beretta Brigadier psitols reinforced slide was the supposed solution to the M9 issue. On the locking lug issue Beretta later switched from having the logs projecting from the wedge with 90 degree corners to cutting radiuses inside the corners as a way to spread stress. Seemed to work.

The other issue for guys collecting NYPD Glocks is that super early guns had Glocks polygonal rifling which wound up make ballistic comparisons a bit hard. There was a friendly fire incident where they couldn't figure out who fired the telling shot (so they said) because they couldn't get a good comparison. After that, Glocks came in with cut rifling and the barrels were stamped G&L to indicate Grooves & Lands. I think they later stopped with the stamping. Again, I'll have to check mine.
Best,
RM Vivas

CA Escapee said:

Yeah, there’s no telling where it went; nothing on the Internet. I’ve got other K-Frames, but this is the first HB 4” I’ve gotten. Should be fun.

Click to expand...

There was speculation these CAI imported S&W's came from Puerto Rico.

Here's a thread on these.

Sportsman's Warehouse has Used Guns Now (older S&W's & Colts)

A quote from that thread;

They came from Puerto Rico. Some were department guns with a few evidence seizures. I may have some inside information on the matter.

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The problems with the Beretta were well known in some circles; part of it may have been hot ammo, part of it was that I showed up in the hard use groups who shot a lot, such as SEALS. I had a holster made by a Navy vet some 25 years ago who had been on the line when one of those failures happened - the nasal cavity damage ended the shooter's time as a SEAL.