Friends!

It has arrived!







After carrying my ever present and faithful companion, S&W 442 for almost 25 years, I picked up a new J Frame. The 442 is not going anywhere, and is still going to get carried and shot, but it has a new, easier to shoot younger brother.

My 442 definitely has some miles on it. I finally exceeded roughly 6K rounds through it, but I am not sure exactly what the round count is. Suffice to say, it is still rocking along, but looks a little worse for wear (kind of like its owner).




 

Last year I was asked if I wanted to be involved with a project with Lipsey's, who are the distributors who worked with S&W to bring out the Ultimate Carry J Frames. Naturally I said yes! Long story short, I developed a load that would shoot to right to the sights for the gun. As it ended up it also shot to the sights on a Ruger LCR that I had on hand for product development.

(For those who don't know, I have a small custom handgun ammo business.)

The ammo (a 100 grain poly coated full wadcutter) ran right at about 800 FPS for me, and 794-796 for the guys down in Louisiana when they did their product launch. Pretty darn consistent.

Anyways, the gun came out fantastic. Besides the truly excellent grips, the sights are the first thing that really stand out. The front sight just Pops. It immediately catches your eye.

I kind of had a hard time getting a pic of it with my phone, but it is exceptional.

 


The front and rear sight combo is such a night and day difference compared to what we have worked with for decades on your typical J Frame. It is just truly impressive. Wish they would have done this 30 years ago! The rear sight is a big U shaped trough and it is very easy to line up.

The grips, I was a little amused. They are almost identical in size to what I had built up with vet wrap and hockey tape on my old 442. Obviously these look a whole lot nicer!

Here is a pic of my old 442 grips and the new 432 grips. You can see how close they are. Needless to say, they are great.

Nice to get a set of factory grips out of the box that are done right. Plus they are relieved for speedloaders.








More to follow....

So after working with and doing development on the .32 H&R, there was no question about which caliber I was going to get. The recoil characteristics were just night and day different. I carry 148 grain full wadcutters in my .38 Special 442 and have for years. They make the gun quite manageable and do great in terms of penetration.

What surprised me with the .32 H&R was just how light the recoil was. It was like shooting a .22 Magnum. Super light recoil, and as a bonus, you get 6 rounds instead of 5. Some have mentioned just carrying a rimfire, but it has been my experience that rimfire revolvers have always needed much heavier springs, which equates to much heavier trigger pulls to make them reliable. The .32 H&R eliminated that issue.

The real surprise for me was the penetration. I honestly did not expect much in that department. I figured it would go 14", maybe 16" I was way off base. Multiple people tested the 100 grain poly coated wadcutters. One report gave 22"s, and another came back at 24"s.

In fact, Jeff "Tank" Hoover, a writer for American Handgunner shot one of the .32 H&Rs with a bunch of different ammo, including the 100 grain poly coat wadcutters, and he got 24"s of penetration.

You can read about that in his article here:

S&W Ultimate Carry: Ballistic Testing - American Handgunner


It really has proven to be a "Goldilocks" load. Super light recoil, and good penetration. Pretty hard to beat.

I decided that since I got my new 432 BUG that I really needed to familiarize myself with it, and the only way to do that is shoot it, and shoot it a LOT. When I was working on the Job, I used to shoot my 442 quite frequently, all the way out to 50 yards. In fact I cannot tell you the number of people who told me that snubby revolvers were only good for "bad breath distance" and you can't hit anything with that past arms distance, etc, etc. Only to show them on the range how very wrong that thinking was.

So my idea is to shoot the heck out of this gun over the next year or so and post up the results here. See how it does accuracy wise and how the gun holds up. Not so much a torture test, but to get used to shooting a J Frame a good bit once again. Plus using one with such dang nice sights will be a very nice change of pace! Plus I will take my old 442 Centennial along with some 148 grain poly coated wadcutters and see how they do as well.

It will give me an opportunity to shoot the Old School along side the New School and see how it all shakes out.

I forgot to post this earlier, but they did a nice job beveling the chambers on the cylinder. Another thing that you would pay a smith to do on a custom gun, and it is coming from the factory already done.



It is no wonder that the special runs of guns that Lipsey's put together from time to time are so sought after.

Have the Lipsey's 632 hit the market yet?
jcelect

Good deal!!!! What's the street price on these running?

BTW, good to see you over here (I'm on the single action forum too.)

Chris

A 632UC just sold on Gunbroker for over $1500….

We knew that that had to happen. About twice list!

73,
Rick

Duplicate some how

73,
Rick

I hate those VZ grips on a revolver; having them just adds to the cost in replacing them. Don't need the goofy round ball sights either. A plain jane 432 would be fine from S&W.

Well the majority likes the sights and the grips Nancy.

Luckily I got enough J Frame grips lying around. Won’t cost me nothing to replace the VZ’s.

Ordered a 642UC and a 632...642 came in last Monday but have not had time to shoot it yet... Planning on shooting it against a 649 and 60-1 for both accuracy and speed of followup shots...

Bob

I paid $739.00 ($790 with tax) for my new 632UC that I will be picking up on Monday. I feel like I got a real sweet deal! My dealer said the margins on this gun were very slim and at $739 was only clearing about 19%.
So, I would speculate that when supply catches up with demand the “street price” will be $700-$750?

Waiting for one of the 2 LGS to get one of these in. My name is first on the list at these shops. Seems that Lipsey's favors their larger dealers with these specials before the smaller dealers. I hope I live long enough to get one and still be able to shoot it.

Even though I just bought a Taurus 327, I'm looking forward to seeing one of these 432's at my LGS. Nothing says I can't have both.

I never thought I'd be interested in a 32 at all, but I've had my eyes opened to "possibilities" shall we say.

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John 3:16 .

Um, well, I checked out four local gun shops in my area for getting one, only one was a large dealer (PSA), and it turns out the smallest one of all was the dealer that got me one!
It appears that dealer put this gun on their wish list with Lipsey's in late February and got the call first! I was told by my dealer that only one 632UC was allocated to my area and my dealer had first option because they used the Lipsey's distributor "wish list" system.

Everyone has their own tastes and that is fine. Having been handling them, I think they are some of the most well thought out grips I have seen on a J Frame. They cover the back strap nice and high, plus fill the hand very well. Plus they are relieved properly for speedloaders.

Overall they are a truly excellent grip and one that Jason Cloessner from Lipsey's spent a lot of time making sure was done properly. I am very grateful he spent the time he did and we benefit from his work and effort.

However if you do not like them, that is not a problem, you will have zero problems selling them. If you choose to buy one of these revolvers, please let me know and I would be happy to consider buying the grips from you, as I am sure numerous others would as well.

I took a couple of low light pics last night, which was harder than I thought with a cell phone. The camera was very slow to take the pic and it took a bunch of tries, trying to get it focused, as well as holding the gun still while doing so.




The sight is Very bright in low light.

If you are interested go over to RevolverGuy.com and read the full development of the UC's. I wasn't really interested in the UC's until I read this review and the development history. Now I think I'll pick up a 32 and get the family shooting it!

What caught my attention on the initial press release was an "improved trigger pull". Supposed to be oh so much better than a regular J Frame.

Well?

Found a 432 UC in Charlotte today. Fit and finish is excellent. Feels great. Looking for a 442 UC as well. Surprised to see this one first.

Thanks for the info!!

Chris

Just a thought, now that it has been a couple days with the 432 UC. The VZ grips are nice. I like them a lot. That said, sort of wish that they were a little "grippier." Thinking about swapping them for old school Pachmayrs. Maybe not. Undecided.

Update. Decided that the original VZ grips, however nice, do not work for me. Swapped them out for old school Pachmayrs. Feels awesome.






It was difficult to remove the VZ grips. They fit tight. Had to put a thin metal rod into the screw hole and apply a lot of force to push the opposite grip panel loose. Did not want to mar the finish or grip.

The only gun in recent memory that I am actually interested in.

Has she let you shoot it yet? 😂

She said that I can shoot it, if I let her get ice cream on the way to the range.

150 rounds through the Lipsey's Ultimate Carry 432 .32 H&R J Frame with Lost River Ammo 100 grain Poly wadcutters.



Finally have a few minutes to sit down and post about shooting the 432 UC for the first time before I have to get to work cranking out ammo!

On Sunday I went out and shot 150 rounds. Dang wind was blowing. Some times it was calm, but there were some gusts that made life difficult to say the least. I lost my final target in the end.


I had brought along my S&W 442 and G21.5 w/RDO as well. I figured I would see how the recoil was, shooting the 442 and 432, shooting them side by side, with the 100 grain and 148 grain poly wadcutter loads.









My first six rounds at 15 yards with the 432:





I shot six more for a total of 12 rounds then decided to adjust the rear sight. The rear sight is dove tailed in and has a set screw. I had a screw driver set, Brownell's brass hammer, along with a brass rod in case I needed to tighten any loose screws or whatever.

So I loosened the set screw and went to adjust the rear sight in the dovetail. Ha! That sucker is soo tight in there! Good news bad news (not really that bad). I tapped on it a few times with the brass rod while sitting on the tailgate. The good things is that the rear sight is so perfectly fit in there that the odds of you losing your rear sight if the set screw comes loose are extremely slim. After tapping on it a number of times and it not budging, and knowing my propensity for totally screwing up very nice things and totally regretting it, I decided I would wait until I got him and use proper tools and do it right! Sometimes I do learn from my own previous mistakes....

I may have a 1911 that still looks like a dog chewed on the rear sight from me adjusting the rear sight at a match with a Leatherman and a rock..
Not going to do that this time!

So I went back to shooting.


I shot my 442 with the old trough sights and there is just no comparison. So I cheated and used the CT laser grips. I will say that with 20 years of using CT laser grips, and thousands of rounds, the little 442 will stack them still. The laser grips are a definite advantage if the light is in your favor, like being indoors or on overcast days.



I might consider some CT grips for the 432. The sights on the 432 are the best I have ever used on a J frame, no question about it, but having both would really be exceptional. I was considering this, but I REALLY like the shape of the grips on the 432. They are the best grips I have ever used on a stock J Frame. By a long shot.

So the wind started really picking up and I was having trouble keeping the IDPA target even stapled down. It finally blew off and I was unable to recover it. You can kind of see on the paper behind it how pretty consistent at 15 yards the .32 H&R was. To the upper left are some .38 148 grain WC holes as well, but the lower left are the main group from the 432.




In the end I had 3 boxes of 100 grain wadcutters through the 432. Pretty comfortable gun to shoot. Definitely a home run for Lipseys.

I shot the G21.5 after that at some rocks that I lasered in the mid 80 yards out to about 120 yards . That gun is a freaking tack driver. I am going to take it out on a nice day and set some steel up at extended distances and see what it can do. The Marksman barrels in the 5th Gen .45 guns are pretty exceptional.

I would have put some .45 on paper but my target I set aside for the G21 is probably in Wyoming by now...

I forgot to post that this was written a couple days ago. I went out and shot yesterday again, and now have 250 rounds through the gun. I will post that shooting eval up here shortly.

*
Grips are often a personal choice/fit issue and I leave that alone. The only criterion that matters is that the grips work for the shooter in question. I will admit that when I see the knee-jerk responses about wood over other materials for cosmetic reasons I have a hard time not being strident in noting the irresponsibility of that position. Cosmetics generally are not relevant, and even less so when talking about a fighting gun, which this model is.

As for the sights: This might be the first time I have ever heard a criticism of this sighting system. The need for a visible front sight that is big and bold is pretty well established. The U notch has made a come back in the last 15 or so years; the first time I saw one was from Hilton Yam. I have a couple of pistols set up like that, and carried at least one as a duty weapon. I can assure you that the transition to such takes almost no effort, and they work very well for fighting. As a rule, if a firearm is not suitable for fighting, I will not own it. I have a .22 and a K38 that I sometimes shoot just to show myself when I can do if I concentrate, but even then the K38 was used to good effect by LAPD and other agencies.

This platform was developed by honest to goodness experts; Nyeti is a friend of friends and has the BTDT background to opine and apply his knowledge.

__________________
NHI, 10-8.

I wonder when, or if, it will become available for sales by gun shops in California.

250 rounds total now. Lipsey's 432 Ultimate Carry J Frame Lost River Ammo
Yesterday's weather was far nicer than the wind storm I tried to shoot in last Sunday.

I took my 432 UC and my G21.5 out to the range.

After adjusting the sights at home (purely guessing) I was back on the range to give it a try.

The first six rounds at 10 yards:

Once again, the ammo was my own making, these, which have been immensely popular:





The first 6 rounds after the initial sight adjustment:

Obviously my guess was not quite on the money..

I ended up splitting the difference and getting it closer to the center...






The HKS Speedloaders came in too, so I used those while I was on the range. It is interesting to note, that even though they hold 6 rounds of .32 compared to 5 of .38, they are still a tad bit smaller. Aside from visually noticing the difference, I could tell just by handling them and slipping them into my pocket.






Went to 7 yards and put a bunch into the target, shooting two handed.



Backed up to 10 yards and shot strong hand only, then weak hand only:



I had a few rounds left that I shot at some distant shotgun shells that were littered on the ground, and watched them fly off. At least the one that I hit..

So now I have 250 rounds through the gun. The sights are miles above the old school design of the traditional J Frame. There is no question about it. The .32 is quite comfortable to shoot. The recoil makes putting one hundred rounds through the gun an enjoyable experience.

So that is it until next time. Going to load up the speed loaders and carry at least one of those in my pocket when I carry the 432 as my BUG pocket gun.

I have yet to find the 432 at any local shops or heck even online, any ideas where to pick one up?

*
That's a good write-up. You did the work to show the performance of the platform under conditions simulating those for which it was designed. While this platform does not at this time suit me, I can see circumstances in my future in which it might.

__________________
NHI, 10-8.

Very nice revolver, and great write up. Hopefully these will become widely available soon.

I would like to see some longer range (25 yd and 50yd) accuracy testing comparing the .32 100 grain full wadcutter and the 32-98 grain RCBS SWC bullets. I would also like to see penetration comparison between these two bullets.

The 632/432 with a 3 inch barrel, adjustable sights, no lock, and an external hammer might give the Ruger LCRX some kit gun competition.

I am not interested in the blast and noise of the .327 Federal and am very happy the .32 H&R Magnum is making a comeback.

The Pachmayr Compac grip was what I used when I carried a 442. Felt great and kept the cylinder release from gouging my thumb.

I was all in for one of these but those plastic looking pins/stud is a turn off. Seems to me that S&W could have at least color matched them so that they aren't so obvious. Sore thumb you know..What's the purpose of the 2 above the trigger?

The pins above the trigger are the same titanium pins that the scandium guns got for increased durability. The explanation I heard was that on high-round count aluminum J-frames, the trigger pins can become deformed over time.

Nice work! I appreciate you sharing all the info.

What's funny is that I remember back when .32 H&R was still in the S&W catalogue. A couple of the local gun guys really liked it because of the lower recoil and extra round in the J frame.

I'm thinking .32 H&R could make a major come back.
I'm also interested to see what improvements from the UC migrate into the production J frames.

The pin above the trigger is the trigger pivot pin and the one forward is the cylinder stop pivot pin. The one below the cylinder latch is the hammer pivot pin.

__________________
protocalldesign.com

Questions answered, thanks.....

Looking forward to getting my Ultimate J frame..

__________________
.............SmithNut

Friends,

Today I went out to do some more T&E on a .45 ACP 250 grain Poly Coat +P load I have been working on. Absolute Hammer!

It has been running like a sewing machine through the Gen 5 G21. I took along an S&W 4506, as well as an H&K USP to use those as test beds and get velocity numbers.

The G21 is the clear favorite just as far as shooting comfort and ease of making fast hit BTW, but that is for another thread.





Anyways, while I was out, I ran 100 rounds through the Lipsey's 432UC.

I was shooting the same ammo as before. The 100 grain Lost River Ammunition Company poly coat wadcutters.

Such a great little gun. Finally got the sights centered to when I want them.

At 10 yards I was putting them right above the green dot. It is clear these sights are oriented for closer range defense type shooting, which is perfect for thi style gun. My 50+ year old eyes are not doing the gun justice when it comes to the gun/ammo combo and true mechanical accuracy combination potential.

I fired my first 12 and knew I had the sights right where I needed them in terms of windage adjustment.



Then I fired the rest for a total of 30 rounds. This was offhand at 10 yards.



Next I backed off to 25 yards to see how I would do. This is where it was obvious that my eyes are struggling with the irons. I was having a hard time getting a crisp picture. This is really where red dot sights and even laser grips have a pretty notable advantage if the conditions are right for them.

It was obvious (to me) that the gun and ammo is capable of far better. I was definitely limiting the performance here. Normally with an RDO on a revolver and sandbagged it is pretty easy to shoot little groups, but I was struggling. I know this gun is capable of much better. It shoot well, but I know a person who can see those iron sights clearly like I did in my 20s would have shot a much tighter group.




More to follow...

With 60 rounds down, and 40 to go, I brought it in closer.

I practiced between 3, 5 and 7 yards.

I shot both hands, strong and wrong hand only.

40 rounds into the head box.



At such close range, the gun was extremely easy to shoot a ragged hole for the most part.

That brought me to 100 rounds.

I did note that the trigger has lightened up. I don't have a trigger gauge, but it feels lighter than when it started by at least a couple pounds. It was already smooth, and now is just a bit smoother. Simply a great action on the gun. Extremely hard not to like.

With 350 rounds through the gun, I would say it is starting to break in nicely.

On an interesting note.

When I was done shooting, I noted how quite clean the gun was. If I had been shooting regular lead, there was no doubt, I would have had to of been breaking out the toothbrush and scrubbing on the gun. But the 432 is quite clean thanks to the poly coat projectiles. They are really hard to beat.

This is after 100 rounds.






All for now.

Good shooting. Especially at 25 yards, benched or not. The 32 snub is a close range defense gun. The accuracy and reduced recoil mated to an airweight revolver are it's primary advantages. I know of many elderly people, smaller people, and infirm people that cannot handle a 38 snub recoil. Some of them have gone to .22s or 25s. They now have a far more effective and reliable option. Thanks for your excellent review.

Friends,

I went out yesterday and got in some more shooting. Had to test some more of the heavy .45 ACP +P 250 grain poly coat loads I have been working on, so I figured that it was a great opportunity to shoot the 432 as well.

There have been a couple people that I have read their posts out on the interwebs who wondered how it would perform at 50 yards. So I figured I would take this opportunity to give it a shot. I set up my bags across the tailgate of my old Land Cruiser. Then I walked the target out along with my laser rangefinder and set it at 50 yards.

Here were the results of the first 6 shots at 50 yards:



I had used an old IDPA target that I shot on previously so I just stuck the big white paper over the holes. As you can see it hit pretty well centered, with one a bit higher up and one low and left. The one low and left immediately made me start questioning things. "Did I do that, is it a gun thing, such as one chamber slightly off?", etc. However, knowing how it had shot the previous 350 rounds I highly doubted it was a gun issue and like 99% of the time, it was likely shooter error.

For the ADD-ADHD crowd, I will skip ahead on this one. It was me. I suck.


So I pasted some dots over the holes and fired another 6 shots.




5 out of 6 pretty darn close, and one a bit high. I will take that group. Overall I was dang happy so far.

Next I fired another 6, but before I get to that I will tell you about a conversation I had with someone a couple days ago. It had been mentioned that just slight changes in how a person grips a gun can have a pretty significant change in the point of impact of the projectiles. They were spot on, in that observation. As strange as this sounds, when I am shooting groups with a DA revolver, especially standing, I will often shoot the gun all double action. Most people find that to be odd. But the thing is that you can pick up most DA/SA revolvers and cock the hammer back and fire it, all while holding it in a variety of ways. It is substantially harder to do that in DA mode due to the long trigger reach. It forces you to hold the gun very consistently each time, with it perfectly in line with the bones in your forearm. When I shoot long range with my Smith revolvers, I do it almost exclusively DA.

Back to the shooting of the 432UC. I decided to grip the gun differently (choking up a bit higher) and removed the soft cushion that I had underneath my hands. As it ended up, the gun was bouncing a good bit more. The results were very telling. At 3-7 yards you may not be able to tell much. At 50 yards is was dramatically different.

I got a bit ahead of myself and taped the target before I took a pic. But the orange stickers are from where I had gripped the gun differently. The wind had picked up and a couple of my blue stickers had blown off.





You will note that there are only 5 orange stickers. I think I pasted one of the last six shot string with a blue dot. But regardless, you can see how just changing your grip, and not having a proper rest can cause a rather significant change, both in group size, but also in point of impact.

More to follow..

Now that I knew I was on target and knew how to hold the gun to get the best results I fired and emptied the gun three different times before I walked down to the target. In spite of the fact that I struggled a little with keeping the front sight in focus, the Lipsey's 432UC really put the wadcutters right where they needed to be.



This gun just puts them right in there. The sights are exceptional. For a gun that is intended to be used in the role this one was designed for, one could not ask for anything better.

As mentioned earlier, I have been working on a .45 ACP +P 250 grain Poly Coat load. I had the G21.5 that is topped with the CH Duty enclosed emitter RDO as well as 5" Colt and 4.25" Colt 1911s, and a 4506, as well as an HK USP. In between shooting those I fired the 432 at a few different targets. I did not quite get to 100 rounds. I fired a total of 80 rounds. Was trying for 100, so as to makes things simple an easy to track, but it just did not happen, as I had kids to pick up. You know, that life stuff that pops up.

So right now the round count sits at 430 rds.

Loving the gun and now I know that with the 100 grain poly coat wadcutters, I can shoot out to 50 yards and be on the money.

FWIW, my 642UC's trigger weighed in at 10 lbs, 6 oz on my digital Wheeler trigger pull gauge, and after ~125 rounds, quite a few dry fire pulls, and oiling the internals, it's now measuring 9 lbs, 15 oz. If I didn't have to send it off to S&W to replace the dead tritium sight, I'd pull it apart and polish it.

I got to handle a Model 60 no dash back-to-back with it, and the Model 60 owner and I both agreed that the 642UC's DA trigger was superior.

Sounds like a win/win. Cute little girl.

__________________
I told you not to use Lifebuoy

The roadblock to a comeback for 32 H&R is the original H&R guns that were not very robust. So the SAAMI specs for the load are pretty weak - probably what a 32 Long +P would be if there were such a thing (which there won't be, from the major ammo factories, again because of the old weak guns out there that can't take the extra pressure.)

Buffalo Bore offers a 32 H&R load with a 100g JHP that (slightly) exceeds 38 Special +P energies (same chrono, same day out of 2" J frames - and BTW, they kick the same, but you do get an extra round with the 32.) But the BB boxes are clearly marked "Not for use in H&R revolvers" or some such. Something I don't recall ever seeing on Winchester or Federal ammo boxes, and something I doubt they would be willing to do for 32 H&R.

I think the wimpiness of the industry specs for the 32 H&R was the reason for the 327 Federal, which in its 100g fire breathing dragon versions from Speer and Federal is up in low 357 Magnum energy territory (and, surprise surprise, kicks like it too.)

Just picked up mine. I went into the store to pick up a shotgun that I had ordered, and asked my dealer when he expected the one I ordered to come in. He said that it was already there, and that he had called me a couple of days ago. Said that if I didn't come in soon that it would go to the next guy on the waiting list.

$668 + tax.

I already have some Buffalo Bore, about 150 rounds of other HP ammo, and components for .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long, .32 H&R, and .327. (Yes, I like the .32's.)

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Only a cold warrior