I sold my 4” Model 16-4 and bought a 6” S&W 16-4 .32 H&R Mag yesterday and it is in fantastic shape. I spoke to Jack Huntington and I am sending the gun, a Weigand scope mount and a S&W Model 48 .22 mag cylinder to him as soon as the mount comes in from Brownells. He is going to convert the Model 48 cylinder to .327 Federal, D&T it for the scope mount and do an action job on it. The plan is to put a Leupold 4X or 2x scope on it and use it to hunt deer. It should be a very nice light recoiling deer gun

Light recoiling? Yes, I'm sure it will be, but will the .327 Federal cartridge be enough for humane deer kills?

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

Drilling and tapping the frame won't do much for the resale value of that Model 16. As long as you are aware of that and O.K. with modifying the gun, that's fine. A lot of people cry at a later date over a mod that seemed like a great idea at the time.

Model 686s are still being made and will do anything in the hunting field that a .327 Federal would do.

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Dave Brown
SWCA #3279

I have been searching for a while for one that was inexpensive enough to convert and I bought it knowing I would be giving up the collector value to D&T it.

I live and hunt in Florida and the .32 H&R and .327 Federal are fully capable of taking our small deer. I have taken them with a 4 5/8” Ruger Single Seven using 100gr Buffalo Bore ammo in the Federal and H&R load and both worked wonderfully. The longest shot was just short of 60 yards with iron sights. I feel confident that the scope will allow me to ethically shoot out to 100 yds

Good luck on your project.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I second the caution about the D&T. There are no drill mounts available that work fine and won't forever disfigure that 16-4. Your gun and your money though. Deer aren't all that hard to kill, I suppose many have been taken with a 32-20 in a Win. 92, but 327 Mag wouldn't be my choice either. Sounds like a fun project please let us know what all that costs when you're done with it.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

I will carry my FA-83 .454 Casull or Linebaugh Bisley .500 Linebaugh as backup!

Elmer would be very proud of you!-

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

For me the 44 mag would be my minimum for deer hunting, but then I would have kept the 4” too. Have fun with your conversion.

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213th FBINA

I have taken deer with just about everything from the .22 Jet (90 lb doe at 30 yds with a neck shot that someone tried to shoot in the head and blew her jaw off) to the .480 Ruger. I haven’t shot one with my .500 Linebaugh yet. I am patient when hunting and will pick my shots based on the gun I have in hand. I am not a collector but if this gun had come with the box and paperwork and was in perfect shape I would give pause to scoping it.

Assuming you are a cool shot and not prone to buck fever, that sounds doable based on what you describe, but I probably wouldn’t try it here in Indiana.

I’d tend to favor a red dot over a telescope, based on my own experience with the two types of sights on a handgun. I’ve seen a friend hit a clay target at 100 yards with my 629 and reflex sight, and then hit the remaining piece a shot or two later. Just a thought you might consider. Mounting a small reflex sight on an S&W can usually be done in a lot tidier fashion than that Weigand mount for a telescope.

Whatever you decide, I’d like to hear more about your results.

I have used the small red dot sights on several autos and I have one mounted on a 5” S&W 610 and I am happy with it. I have a Weigand mount on a new 617 holding a 4x Burris and the mount base is rather ugly. I had forgotten about the Leupold dual dovetail base that to me looks much better and doesn’t extend over the barrel. I just ordered one of eBay. I will send them both to Jack and if the Leupold doesn’t work, and I see no reason why it won’t work, he can put the Weigand on it

Any .32 cal. revolver cartridge is too "weenie" for deer. Don't do it. If you have any respect for the animal.

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S&W Accumulator

Obviously you haven’t used a modern .32 H&R or .327 Federal

That's cool. Personal preferences are just that, personal. The 44 mag is my personal preference for hunting deer, the 22lr was my grandfather's; he never needed a second shot. You know my like for 4"
16-4s.

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213th FBINA

Aside from the .327 being minimal for even small Deer there is the question of is it a legal handgun cartridge for Deer in Florida?

At handgun hunting distances, usually well under 50 yards, why do you feel you need a scope or any optical sight? Factory iron sights are fully adequate for any hunting distance appropriate to a handgun, especially anything .357 Magnum or smaller!

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Gunsmithing since 1961

^^What he said!^^ I have used no-drill mounts on a few K frames with perfect satisfaction. I would urge against altering the frame. Why are you having the cylinder conserved by purchasing an auxiliary cylinder to alter then, negating that preservation by D&T? I would do one or the other, modify original cylinder then drill and tap or fit auxiliary cylinder and use a no-drill mount. YMMV though, so you do you!
Froggie

It is legal in Florida. There are no restrictions as to caliber or energy requirements. The only prohibition is no Rimfire cartridges for deer. I may have the original cylinder converted to .32-20 or Reeder’s .321 GNR (.357 necked to .32). To totally desecrate it I may have Rocky Sharp engrave it

Have you looked under the rear sight? I thought nearly all came factory D&T now?

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

I have a friend who hunted deer for a number of years with a Ruger GP100 .357 magnum and a 6 inch barrel, open sights. He has taken several deer and he told me all were clean kills. I'm sure they were at close range in timber.

The D&T top straps weren't added until a few years later. They started about the same time as the new/current rear sight was implemented.

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213th FBINA

I hunt Whitetail here in Illinois with some huge bucks and does taken.I use a Remington 1100 12 gauge with Lightfield 1&1/4oz.sabot slugs (550grain)>My handgun is a S&W 500 8&3/8" loaded with Hornady 500 grain JSP.The bucks here will go 50 yards with their heart and lungs blown out.The minimum I would use here is a .44mag.

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Handgunhunter

327 will be plenty.

I sent in a model 66-5 (which is D&T from the factory) with a 617 6" barrel and cylinder to Jack and had it converted to 327. It's great. The 327 will be plenty against deer, especially smaller bodied deer (I'm in South Florida) at hand-gun distances.

I've also considered having a second cylinder chambered to 321 GNR (already have a 21" contender barrel). I decided I likely wouldn't realize the benefit of the enhanced external ballistics frequently enough in live situations to offset the inconveniences of swapping cylinders, no off-the-shelf ammo, and handloading a bottleneck cartridge specially for the 6" barrel. I could just run my carbine load, but that wouldn't be optimal.

I may still do the 321 at some point. I have a 8 3/8" Model 53 barrel I've stowed away for a future project.


Off the shelf "target" 327 ammo from Federal out of a 16" barrel at 100 yards (~30 yds from a 6" barrel)

It amazes me how some folks consider drilling and tapping a top strap to be sacrilegious. If the rear sight is used, it’s virtually undetectable, and if a base is mounted, who cares? I can’t believe it took S&W so many decades to make the D&T standard.

Good luck with your project and post some pictures of the finished result and your deer!

Lou

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NRA Certified Instructor & RSO

If they had made a 16-5, it would have been. The 16-4 was made at the same time the 686-3 was made… 1988-1992.

As CH4 said, when the front edge of the rear sight changed from square to rounded, that’s when they added those changes under the sight.

It always makes me genuinely curious (and not in a jerk kinda way) of how many folks that recoil in horror about altering a Model 16-4 were also hardcore S&W revolver fans from 1988-1992 and also bought or dreamed of buying a 16-4.

I say this because I am certain that this model just did not sell. Of this I am certain, simply because of the piles of them that CDNN and other outfits had of these years later, new old stock, untouched in original box, for chump change.

There have been other models that did not sell and become total dream boats later, but this one just feels recent to me.

I wish I still had an old CDNN catalog. They were practically giving these away like door prizes. And today you see collectors trying to hawk them for two grand.

I own, shoot, load for a 32 mag...........I still would never carry it deer hunting. Too small and weak.

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S&W Accumulator

I am with the if your going to drill and tap the frame, why not just ream the original cylinder group. For all those who are recoiling in horror at the thought of drill and tapping the top strap, hauling the gun around in a holster of any kind will rub the mint off it anyway. Believe it or not, it is a gun and was actually designed to shoot things, not be a poor investment.

As far as power goes. It has way more than any arrow and lots of game falls to bow hunters. If you are unwilling to practice and take good shots within the limits of you gun and abilities, handguns of any caliber are not for you.

A good bow hunter with a 22 would be more deadly than many rifle hunters with 300 Win mags

This argument sounds like, “ such and such caliber is ok for self defense unless the bad guy is over 6’ and fat”.

A look at what the OP will have when done, minus the scope!

The gun pictured is not in "collector condition" as it was a truck gun in another life! The original cylinder was reamed to 327 and it is a tack driver off a good rest to 100yds. I would use a red dot on an Allchin mount, very compact and easy to holster! A red dot is quite adequate out to 100yds and excellent in low light conditions!


This is my deer gun! 142yds, the longest kill and one old 10 point took 5 shots in the boiler house, starting at about 75-80yds with the last shot being 10yds away from the tree I was in! Some old bucks are tuff! ! !
jcelect

Don't need to remove the rear sight to see if it's D&T, just look under the top strap with the cylinder open. The holes are drilled all the way through the topstrap.

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.............SmithNut

I find the 50 yards with heart and lungs blown out a poor justification for a larger caliber. It ain't dead dead till the brain runs out of oxygen unless brain shot. Lung shot deer can go quite a ways depending on what vessels and tubes got hit. If the pump gets a decent hole in it it won't be long. A major artery on top of it same deal. Part of it is whats going on when the bullet strikes, a spooked deer hit hard will sometimes jump and go, but I have had them drop like a rock to. I have shot deer with a 22, a 357, a 357 Herrett a 44 mag a 45 colt, a 25-35, a 6mm, a 308 a 30-06, a 300wm and a 338. A 22 to the brain and they fold right up, and so will a full grown 1500# steer. My favorite "shot" is right behind the front shoulder. I don't miss it by much. I have had a deer run that 50 yards after a perfect shot with a 300WM and drop like a rock with a 308. At 50 yards I had another drop in it place from a 357. I saw my brother shoot a bull elk in the head with a 223 and it flopped down and stayed there.

My conclusion is if YOU put the bullet where it belongs it will go down. 32 cal or 500 S&W it might still go a ways but it will go down. One might make it 50 yards more than another. If you can't find it in a 100-150 yard circle you should probably stay home

It ain't so much how big the bullet or the animal is as much as where it is.

Lots of folks have taken small deer with the old .32-20. The .327 should do fine.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Anything that kills a human will kill a deer. All of hunting is about shot placement, regardless of caliber.

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protocalldesign.com

It will be interesting to see…I think it’ll kill if you do your part. As mentioned, the .32-20 was used a lot for deer in it’s day and so was the .25-20 Winchester in ‘92 rifles/carbines….also many deer died from 22 rimfire and that .327 is pretty hot….. hot enough to puncture deep into the side of a deer at reasonable ranges…cheers..

I purchased my Model 16-4 brand new back in 1989 when they were making them.

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Same goes for my Model 631 purchased in 1990.

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I was one of the few (apparently) who thought the .32 Magnum was a great idea. I even had a TC Contender with a 10" barrel that I used for shooting NRA Hunters Pistol.

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Dave Brown
SWCA #3279

Here is the 16 with a Model 617 with 6” barrel, Weigand mount and a Bausch & Lomb 4x scope. I decided I wanted something sleeker than the Weigand and ordered a Leupold dual dovetail mount instead. I found a 4X Leupold to go on top. It should make for a sleek package that will be easy to carry and easy to shoot. I may just have Jack run the factory cylinder out to .327 and save the Model 48 cylinder for later or have it fit to the 617

I have shot a lot of deer. For some reason I felt it necessary to take a deer with each rifle that was to obtain keeper status in my rack. I shot a deer with 22Hornet, 25/20, 32/20, 30carbine & 351 Win. RIFLE. All shot less than 50yds. The deer were in 125-150lb class.
Deer aren’t that hard to kill but there are two kinds of deer guns. There are deer “hunting” guns used to go out in woods and actively track and pursue the game. This takes a cartridge of reasonable power to dispatch the deer humanely. The second type of deer gun is the killing gun. This can be about anything including a 22rf. Shooting from a stump at stationary deer doesn’t take any fancy equipment.
I don’t remember which writer said, any cartridge will work under ideal conditions but the wise hunter will select one that is practical for all conditions.

Sounds like Elmer Keith. Because the only practical caliber in all conditions is a 338 win mag. Every deer I have shot with mine has hit the dirt, where as I had one go maybe 50 yards with and perfect 300 yard heart shot from a 300 WM

All conditions includes: wind gusting, snowing, 400 yard down hill shot at a monster 300# Muley buck that is stating at the edge of a pine tree with a light bit of it between me and his front shoulder.

I now carry a 338 elk hunting because I had almost exactly that shot at a great bull elk while carrying a Mohawk 600 in 308 and didn't take it, Backed off and tried another approach and when I got there he was gone. But, I had previously killed 2 bull elk and a lot of deer stone dead where they stood with that little 308

Sometimes it boils down to what shot you/can will take with the gear YOU decide to take into the fields.

I hate guys who take bad shots with any gun especially light ones. But, I also respect guys who hunt within the limitations of their equipment. Bow hunters around here kill a lot of elk. I doubt many of them are over 50 yards. A guy with the same hunting skills, that practiced as much with a 327 as they do with their bows would be every bit or more effective and humane

Well said. I too have taken deer with some small rifles and pistols. Modern bullets have made a lot of marginal cartridges capable deer rounds. Most of my deer with handguns have been with cast bullets in various calibers. When using this gun it will be from a blind or tree stand and places where I can pick my shot. I will more than likely have either a T/C Contender in .250 Savage or an EABCO BF pistol in 6.5 BRM where 200+ yards might happen. If I am sitting somewhere that a 50 - 200 yards at most are possible I will be carrying a FA 83 .454 Casull. The Model 16 will be reserved for 50 yards and in. I don’t take marginal shots and I am very patient. I will be practicing with the equipment I plan on using. To me hunting is a serious endeavor and taking the life of an animal should be done in an ethical manner as quickly as possible. If someone wants to hunt with a .44 or .454 for everything that is fine but some of us like to experiment and test the capabilities of different cartridges. I also plan on using the 16 for Coyotes, Bobcats , hogs and maybe even a Turkey. Just to even it out, hopefully I can get a shot at a deer or pig with my .500 Linebaugh.


When people post about hunting the Whitetail deer, the most common big game animal in the US, you must remember that there is a huge difference in size from one region to another. I appreciate the different opinions and experiences. Information makes us all better hunters.

As Dirty Harry so eloquently expressed: “A man has got to know his limitations”.

I plan to use my 4" Model 19, 357 with a cast SWC for deer next year. I'm VERY picky about the shots I take. I've been higher in the tree than the deer is from the base. I shoot small deer for the meat and for ease of processing. Most years I don't even shoot one, I just like being in the woods. A 357 works fine for me.

AND........Penetration

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S&W Accumulator

Not deer legal in Iowa. I would question if it's enough even for small deer.

Friend Sevens, there seem to be two kinds of guns that sell well and collectors want. Of course the ones that have been popular from their earliest production and because of their good reputation continue to be in demand, and perversely a second category, those that were produced in limited numbers and discontinued before they found a niche. This is particularly true of the various K32s (including the Model 16-4) that was introduced with less fanfare than most “new” models and designed from the start to be a limited run. Yes their niche was small back then, but as shooters have come to know them and with experimentation in loading to enhance performance, yesterday’s “ho hum” has become today’s “next big thing”.
Froggie

It is enough for small deer and pigs. I have used it in a Ruger Single Seven and know several others that have used the caliber on bigger deer than just Florida sized ones. It all comes down to the skill of the hunter to be able to place his or her shot accurately with an appropriate bullet. I don’t plan on any Texas heart shots or raking angles. I am not planning on using it on a $15,000 Elk hunt either. This is the mold I will be using for most of my loads

I have seen post on forums, and probably this one where somebody is beating their gums about “ it’s unethical to shoot at running game “ Right away I know this individual doesn’t hunt, he shoots.
Also range monkeys that don’t hunt giving their advice on bullets and loads for hunting. I do know I’ve spent to much time tracking foul shoot deer because of poor shots and poor bullet choice.
It happened to me once when I was just starting out. I was sighted for Win 150grSP factory ammo ( REM 742c 30/06 )I ended up with Win 150gr Silver Tips. First shot classic hit, deer was just trotting down game trail. I hit him and he hit high gear. 2 more solid hits, one neck and just missed my first shot by 6”. Deer end up standing in a thicket 200yds from where first hit. I couldn’t see deer or know its status other than it was hit. A blind man could’ve tracked in through 6” of snow. I was giving it time to lay down. Then discovered I hadn’t my other magazine. Lucky for me a buddy investigating the shooting finished it off. The Silver Tips went through like FMJs. Never used them again.

Ha Ha Ha. Made me think of this.

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I have shot many a running deer while dog hunting in Florida although most usually paused before they crossed a forest road. These were shot with rifles or a shotgun with buck shot. When a deer was wounded it was usually my job to go in the thick stuff since I was the only one with a pistol usually. I ended up jump shooting a lot of deer with an iron sighted S&W 610 10mm. I don’t normally shoot unwounded running deer when hunting with a handgun. Pigs and Coyotes are a different matter

I kind of think the .327 had a lot to do with the seeming difficulty buying a 16-4 6" at a decent price. Another one bites the dust.