Hello,
I recently purchased a S&W 686 .357 magnum Performance Center (https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/l-frame-170319) but I cam getting conflicting information as to whehter I can shoot .38 Specials through it as well. Some say "of course", some say "no".
Can I get your opinion please so I don't ruin the firearm.
Thanks,
Greg

Welcome!

Yes, your 686 is capable of firing .38 Specials.

Enjoy!

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Because of the metric system?

Hi Pete,

Many thanks for your reply, AND thats great news that I can use .38 Specials.

Cheers,
Greg

Yes, .38 Specials can be fired from 357 cylinders---accuracy will suffer---ULTIMATE accuracy----that from a machine rest. You can murder tin cans with complete confidence!

Ralph Tremaine

As an aside, .38 Special loads in Magnum cases show no diminished accuracy. More by process of elimination rather than definitive results, this results primarily from the increased throat length---Magnum cylinder vs. .38 Special cylinder. That in turn results in a greater velocity of the bullet entering the barrel--as to how much, your guess is as good as mine---and that in turn results in more skidding and sliding before the rifling gets a hold on the bullet---and that in turn makes for (more) damage to the bullet than would be the case with a .38 Special cylinder. Again, via the process of elimination, accuracy is primarily dependent upon the bullet leaving the barrel in as pristine condition as possible. So says the machine rest---an amazing tool---right up until the SWAG enters the process of what's supposed to be scientific research-----but it's still fun.

Yet another editorial addition------comparing the results of shooting .38's in a 38 and shooting .38's in a 357 Magnum via a machine rest is pretty much the same as comparing apples and oranges! That, quite obviously is because Step One is to change guns in the rest----not a minor detail when it comes to ANY comparison of ANY thing---never mind the results were as I expected. What I expected doesn't count for sour apples when it comes to this type of research. Now you can eliminate that variable by simply buying another machine rest---very likely a lesser variable. Then you have the variable introduced when the Boss Lady asks why you needed another machine rest-----sitting on another stand. Uh------------------well you see-----Uh-------

Hi Ralph,

Thanks for your reply.
May I ask why .38 would yield lesser accuracy?

Cheers,
Greg

Yes, the .38 Special is 100% suitable for .357 Magnum firearms, and has been commonly used so since 1935. Probably a lot more .38 Special ammunition used in most .357 Magnum revolvers for plinking and practice than .357 Magnum ammunition.
Accuracy of .38 Special in .357 Magnum revolvers is just fine in my experience, based on over 25 years of competition in IDPA, USPSA, and ICORE.

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Science plus Art

Welcome aboard!

It's perfectly safe and many of us do it regularly. The .357 Magnum case is about 1/8" longer than a .38 Special case, but otherwise identical. This was done to prevent people from shooting magnums in older .38 Specials not designed to handle the increased pressure.

You may experience difficulty extracting fired magnum cases if you've shot a lot of .38 Specials through the gun. A build-up of fouling residue occurs in the chambers, just in front of the case mouths. If the gun has substantial fouling rings from .38's and you shoot the longer Magnums, the cases can swell around the rings. It's easy to correct by thoroughly cleaning the chambers. You can create a chamber scraper by slightly flaring the mouth of a Magnum cartridge and using it to scrape out the fouling.

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"I also cook."

Literally millions of 38 specials have been fired from 357 revolvers during the revolver era in policing. No troubles at all.

Thankyou OKFC05.

Thanks for everybody's replies - much appreciated.
I'm confident now that I can use 38 Specials.

As its going to be a tad cheaper to use at the range, can anybody validate why using 38 may be less accurate tan 357 magnum? I do realise that the shorter 38 shell will leave a ring in the chamber, is this a factor that will affect accuracy?

Thanks, again. I appreciate the support.
Greg

The bullets have to travel 1/8" more before they enter the throats, which decreases consistency. It may be evident off a machine rest, but the difference is negligible to 99.9% of shooters.

This diagram is for a rifle cartridge, but the same holds for a revolver. The throats are in the cylinder chambers.

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"I also cook."

Hi s&wChad,

This makes sense - thankyou.
I wont be doing a machine rest, so this won't really bother me.

I just watched HickOk45 (online) shoot one out to an incredible distance with 357 and 38 so I know its possible to get this much accuracy.

Many thanks to everybody who answered.

(I'm now going to hit the forum up with another question for this revolver.)

Greg

Just note that the 38sp brass is .100 shorter than 357mag brass and a you will see some build up develop in the cylinder that well need to be cleaned or scrubbed out the carbon maybe some lead or unburnt powder that is left behind when shooting 38sp in a 357mag cylinder before shooting 357mag again OR you may note the problem if you Plunk Test 357mag ammo with our a good cleaning .

If you need to know what a Plunk Test is please look it up first .

For the average person you may not shot tight enough groups to notice an accuracy difference as noted already above unless you use a machine rest . But shooting 38sp in a 357mag chamber does have its own problems that compound with rounds fired . Research first goes along way in answering questions .

If your a younger person you might consider saving for a basic reloader kit to lean with and use thru out the years . I shot 357mag brass loaded to 38sp velocity's since '76 for lite duty needs and training other shooters .

See the editorial addition to my post above. See also Post #11.

Ralph Tremaine

Hi HardLuk1,

I'm an older pistol shooter (40 years shooting or so now), mostly 9mm, but new to revolvers, 38 and 357, so happy to listen to those experienced in this arena. I dont reload ammo myself any more - happy to buy factory these days.

I looked up the Splunk Test - thanks for that tip.

Also, I like to keep my firearms clean, so I wont be shooting hundreds of different rounds through it without cleaning it first - another good tip thankyou.

Greg

Thanks for the editorial update Ralph.

Welcome to the Forum,
Actually, ALL 357 Magnum revolvers can safely chamber and fire 357 Magnum ammunition, 38 Special ammunition, 38 Long Colt ammunition and 38 Short Colt ammunition

As has already been mentioned, the use of any of the shorter cartridges will cause the ring of crud that develops forward of the case mouth to be in the way if you happen to use any of the longer cartridges afterwards. Is quite important to completely clean the chambers in the cylinder prior to shooting the longer cartridges as if that ring becomes too pronounced it will cause extraction of the longer, more powerful cartridges to become more difficult

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"Acta non verba"

In my experience the "ring of crud" is real but not as severe of a problem that many people think it is. When I first started shooting in the 80s my friends and I knew 38s could be fired in a 357 Magnum revolver but without the internet telling us about things we should be worried about had no idea this could be a problem. We shot many thousands of rounds of 38 and 357 through our guns in no particular order. I do recall extraction getting sticky sometimes but not to the point the empty cases had to be pounded out with a dowel.

Given a choice I will shoot 357s first and then 38s. But as long as the 357s drop into the cylinder with no resistance I will still shoot 357s after 38s if I want to.

I no longer reload and typically shoot FMJ factory 38s. The lube on lead bullets creates more fouling. Typically I shoot between 75 and at most 150 rounds through my 686 in a single range session. I clean the cylinder after every range session. Someone that shoots hundreds of lead bullet 38 ammo before trying to shoot 357s is much more likely than I am to have problems from the ring of crud.

First, welcome to the S&W Forums! Now, as to shooting 38 Special ammo in your newly acquired S&W Model 686. The short answer is "yes". The long answer is yes, you may or may not see a difference in accuracy and you may end up with a ring of carbon and bullet lubricant in the chambers that will interfere with loading 357 Magnum ammo. My suggestion is to thoroughly clean the chambers with solvent and a bronze bore brush after shooting 38 Special ammo. It's usually not difficult to remove any build up inside the chambers and they need to be cleaned after every range session.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

I have a 686 that I have only shot 38 Specials in for the last 20 years. In a Ransom Rest it will shoot 3/8" groups at 25 yards and a little over an inch at 50 yards. I fail to see how 38s in a 357 chamber is not accurate enough, or less accurate than 357s. I doubt if any 357 ammo could do any better.

Sadly, I can't shoot it like that holding the gun, but I know for sure any misses are all me.

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protocalldesign.com

Welcome to my world! Surrounded by firearms limited in their accuracy by their owner.

Hey Greg,
Welcome to the forum. You've gotten good information already.
Just to clarify, however, your pistol is rated for and can safely shoot:

.38 short Colt
.38 long Colt
.38 S&W Special
.38 S&W Special +p
.38 S&W Special +p+
.357 S&W Magnum

NOT .38 S&W. That is another cartridge for the older models and shouldn't be able to chamber.

In theory a 38 special fired in the longer 357 magnum chamber will be less accurate ... but we all know about Theory and Practice ...

In practice you must be a very very good target shot to tell the difference and in practice ... there is so very little difference ...
I wouldn't worry about it ... Choot dem 38 Specials !

Be sure and clean the cylinders with a brass brush and solvent of any/all fouling ... you will be just fine .
Gary

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Certified Cajun
NRA Member

I totally agree based upon my experience over the years. As a side note, the U.S. Border Patrol pistol team, way back in the day, used S&W model 19's (.357 magnum) to win many Police Pistol Combat matches. It seems like shooting .38 Special ammo in their revolvers didn't handicap them.

Old catalogs and leaflets listed the different cartridges that would fire in a .357 Magnum. And the different cartridges that would fire in a .38 Special, just not including .357 Magnum.

Why say that .357 Magnum is 1/8" longer than .38 Special, or .100"? The nominal difference in case length is .135".

For all practical purposes you will see no difference in accuracy. The other variables affecting accuracy, our inability to hold steady being the most important one, are far more impacting than is the difference in the "jump" to the barrel. Enjoy, and lose no sleep over the "loss" in accuracy. . . .which you won't be able to detect.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

A friend shot this to win the National Police Campionship a few years ago. That's shot from 50 yards standing. No machine rest.
Note he's shooting a Colt Python .357. Ammo was .38 Spl. Think his accuracy was affected? It's not likely you'll ever shoot as many rounds as this guy has fired. He's Distinguished Rifle and Pistol and President's 100.
Don't worry about the accuracy loss shooting .38 out of .357. You'll never notice it. I've heard people give that claim when they blow rounds all over the target even at short ranges. "Shooting .38 out of my .357 the accuracy is off and won't hit the target." They couldn't hit anything no matter what they were shooting.

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183rd FBINA

I've put untold numbers of lead .38s through my 357s. After enough smokey dirty lead your cylinder will need cleaning. If not cleaned when appropriate, 357s may be difficult to seat in the cylinder and more difficult to extract. Copper choreboy chunks forced through the chambers will square you away for more blasting. There will be no accuracy difference you can notice between the 38's and 357s. Jacketed ammo will allow much greater time intervals between cleaning but will also lighten your wallet a lot quicker. If somebody tells you you can't shoot 38s in a 357 then consider any firearm advice they give as likely worthless or worse.

There came a point that I had accumulated enough 357 mag and 44 mag brass that I use it exclusively for my light loads. But that is a luxury.

My second handgun ever was a .357. I shot it for 30 years using 100% .38 Spl ammo. Then, since I came across a huge supply of .357 brass, I switched over. Now all my .38 ammo is reserved for .38 guns.

I always cleaned the gun like normal - no special treatment. I'm sure I have a .38 ring in the chambers, but I have never had an issue with case sticking.

I always had excellent accuracy with the .38s. Now my accuracy with the .357s is poor. But I attribute that to bifocals and arthritis.

There are other gentlemen also who believe that there is no discernible "accuracy loss" when shooting .38 Special from a .357 Magnum chambered revolver. Their names are Ron Power and Bill Davis and they were standouts in their field as custom competition revolver craftsmen.

They sold countless custom built revolvers intended for top level competition where all the competitors were running .38 Special ammunition regardless of whether the revolver was .38 or .357 chambered.

You could make a mathematical argument that a 1964 Pontiac GTO would be more svelte, more aerodynamic and thus record a quicker 1/4 mile ET if you removed the radio antenna before you ran it on the dragstrip and you might even be mathematically correct, but you could never hope to prove it and you might be questioned if you campaigned for it.

On this same subject, there is one thing you might actually be able to see yourself when swapping between light .38 loads and full-nuts .357 loads, and that is a difference in point of impact vertically.

This is even easier to show when you have a larger gap in velocity. My 460XVR can launch a .460 S&W Magnum round with a 240 grain jacketed bullet at 2,000 fps, but it can also safely shoot light .45 Colt load with a 250 grain bullet going 700 fps. Shoot them interchangeably and they are going to land in different places on the target.

What he said!!!!

As a rule, unless I am literally woods walking, I never load anything but .38 Specials in my revolvers chambered for .357 Magnum. That includes the several.357 Magnums that I keep hidden around the house for home defense. IMHO, Magnum cartridges are fun at the range, mandatory in the woods, and a very bad idea for home defense for a variety of reasons, not the least of which being over-penetration.

Welcome to the campfire!

And to evidence just one of these home defense .357s which fits into your question:

3" 686+:



Moreover, as to this:

Anyone who says no is NOT at all knowledgeable about these cartridges and their interchangeability in guns chambered for .357 Magnum (the reverse is, of course, not true).

And in that monster Performance Center M686 you purchased you will never have a problem, except I guess you will not be carrying that around in the woods.

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Come and take it!!

Hi Greg:
Did you get a manual with your 686?
All my manuals for .357 S&Ws say they can safely fire both .357 Magnums and .38 Specials. See if yours says the same.
If you didn't get a manual, S&W will probably send you one.
Or you should be able to download and electronic copy from the S&W website.

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You're shy a few manners.

A friend was taking a test (in electronics) and, aware of the difference, asked the professor “Should this question be answered from a theoretical standpoint or assuming real-world components?”

The prof said “Go with theory.”

My friend answered the question and was irritated to find it marked wrong. He complained and was told “In theory, there are no perfect components.” :P

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Uvidíme se později, aligátore.

Greg, welcome to the S&W Forum.

Most of the old timers here have been shooting revolvers 50+ years.

Lot of people learned to clean the revolver in the Police Academy that requires 110% clean. But others who have no training only clean the barrel (bore) and do not realize the cylinder needs to be cleaned. I see that a lot today when I look at used revolvers in the Consignment (Used Gun) Area at the Gun Stores.

Sarge

I have shot plenty of 38spl out of my S&W 686+. Accuracy is just fine. I shoot them out of my S&W 66-8 also. Most 357 Magnum owners shot a majority of 38spl out of their revolvers. Usually cheaper to shoot than magnum loads, less recoil and easier on the firearm. Vintage smaller framed S&W 357 Magnums were rumored to be vulnerable to forcing cone cracks after a lot of hot 357 Mag loads were used.

I am going to keep this as simple as possible. Anyone who tells you that .38's will ruin your .357 revolver is an idiot.

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Pisgah

Hello Greg, and welcome to the Forum! As a relatively new Forum member, you need to understand that pictures are a must...LOL! We always enjoy seeing photos of fellow members' handguns (not just links to S&W catalog pics), so please post one or two of your new Model 686. I assume that you purchased your Competitor brand new, and it should be an amazingly accurate shooter with either .38 Specials or .357 Magnums. Enjoy!

I shot alot of 38 shorts out of 357 magnums throughout the years. And shorts are even shorter than specials. Around the size of a rimmed 9mm. And have a fast load and reload.

Definitely, it's definitely the Indian and not the arrow , when it comes to shooting them.
I wouldn't worry about shooting specials. Enjoy!