Which to get for concealed carry: 3" 686+ or 2.5" 66 no lock?

[Stopsign32v]

Well I'm bound and determined to put a 357 magnum revolver in the rotation of my carry guns. But right now I'm at a crossroad on the choice.

686:

It's 3" and I'm REALLY liking the extra fps the half inch gives the 357 magnum. It seems .5" is 150+fps. 1200fps vs 1050ish.

It will be new so Ill know how it's been cared for and also since I just another 686 I won't worry as much about changing the sights or shooting the **** out of it.

66: .5" shorter but MUCH better size for ccw I feel. .5" shorter barrel sucks and less rounds suck. I know I can get a 3" barrel but they are much more costly and less common.

Here is my concern with the 66. I plan to mainly shoot HOT 125gr screamers. If I'm not mistaken this will be an issue with the 66, correct?

[ridgewalker]

Okay still hashing this out.
First I am doubtful about your muzzle velocity difference. I would expect 50 fps tops. Ballistics by the inch is a interesting site but their calculated values don't hold up when verified by real world measurements.
Second the 686 is fairly big. If you can practice with heavier bullets I think you will become comfortable with them out of the 66.
Good luck.

[hobby-gunsmith]

Both guns are great and the 66 will shoot .38 spl +P and +P+ ammo. The 3 inch 686 is heavy concealed for long periods of time. However, you will have less muzzle flip up with this barrel. With today's .38 special ammo, they will do the job for personal defense and or target practice. They are cheaper to shoot than the .357's. I would not hesitate using the hotter ammo for carry. Practice with the .38's and if you carry the .357 ammo, practice with a few dozen rounds to get a feel of the gun if you intend to use them for self defense. It is subjective and by today's standards, ammo has come a long way in the technology and design compared to decades ago.

Nick

[Rpg]

You'll find that the extra size of the 686+ will relegate it to the "rarely or never" carried in comparison to the 66.

I don't believe that a half inch of barrel length would produce more than a trivial difference in velocity: a difference with no practical difference.

The 686's are good shooters, not so good for cc. A full sized 1911 is easier to cc comfortably.

[DD357]

I've had and carried both; don't have the 3" 686 anymore, 2.5" 19 is my EDC.

[SuperMan]

If this is to be a true CC gun...why not a 3" 65 which has fixed sights and bobbed hammer...or the "best"...a 3" 66 if your wallet can float it...

As to ammo...I am with you... A 3" .357 will run 125s in the high 1300 fps depending on the loading..the 2.5" 66 in the low 1300.

According to the book FIGHTING SMARTER by Tom Givens 95% of civilian self-defense shoots occur withing 7 yards. 85% of them within 5 yards... Adjustable sights really are not necessary...

Bob

[MetalMan]

I carry my 2.5" mod. 66-4 in a custom Snubbyfan OWB holster. Extremely comfortable for all-day carry and I never feel undergunned.

I looked at the 686 for a long time but ultimately decided that the extra weight was not conducive to EDC, at least for me....YMMV.....

[bigwheelzip]

Originally Posted by Stopsign32v

I plan to mainly shoot HOT 125gr screamers.

If you want something that's pleasant when shooting lots of magnum loads during range practice, and can still be concealed, get the 686 and a good holster/belt.

For carry and only occasional magnum use, go lighter.

[Stopsign32v]

I will not carry this for long periods of time. It will mainly be for when I want. For main carry it's a Block 19 and Block 43 for hot days.

And shooting. 38 Special ammo out of a .357 Magnum gun.......not even an option to me.

CAN a 66 2.5 live up to hot magnum loads?

[bigwheelzip]

Originally Posted by Stopsign32v

I will not carry this for long periods of time. CAN a 66 2.5 live up to hot magnum loads?

Are you talking about self-defense shooting of a cylinder or two, or day at the range plinking of 50, 100, 150 rounds?

[Stopsign32v]

Originally Posted by bigwheelzip

Are you talking about self-defense shooting of a cylinder or two, or day at the range plinking of 50, 100, 150 rounds?

Shooting at the range. I don't plan to nor understand the shoot 38 special at the range the load up 357. That's equal to saying practice with 9mm and then load 40s&w.

[bigwheelzip]

Originally Posted by Stopsign32v

Shooting at the range.

If your saying high volume of rounds, then be aware of the flat bottom on the forcing cone being a possible point of failure on the 66.

[ISCS Yoda]

Originally Posted by Stopsign32v

Shooting at the range. I don't plan to nor understand the shoot 38 special at the range the load up 357. That's equal to saying practice with 9mm and then load 40s&w.

No it isn't. The point, if you're discussing the 66 and not the 686, is to be very used to the gun without beating the living snot out of it at the range. You're not getting the best bang for your buck in a short barreled gun using "screamer" ammunition, anyway, you're wasting a lot of power and powder. Shooting 50 rounds or 100 rounds of .357 Magnum downrange in your 66 is a pounding on the gun and on you. It's simply not necessary; you'll learn very little that you won't learn using lighter loads.

CAN a 66 2.5 live up to hot magnum loads?

Sure, but it's not recommended for constant shooting at range practice.

And shooting. 38 Special ammo out of a .357 Magnum gun.......not even an option to me.

That makes no sense to me but YMMV. Where do you think you're going to be that you need "screamers"? If you were going to be in the woods or jungle and grizzly bears or the Viet Cong are expected and that was the gun you're going to carry then by all means, shoot "screamers". But in an urban environment you're not gaining any great benefit and you're risking over penetration. Any round can over penetrate but you're not a police officer, you don't have to disable engine blocks, shoot through windows, etc. What do you actually need "screamers" for?

Sticking to just these revolvers as a frame of reference, since you will be carrying automatics, too, but you're interested in variable guns to carry concealed, I do have a 3" M686+, a 2.5" M686+, and a 2.5" M19, I can assure you that for concealment and comfort the 2.5" M66 will be far preferable than the extra weight and bulk of the 3" 686. They'll all digest "screamers" but it's pointless.

As a matter of fact, an earlier poster noted that the adjustable sights aren't going to be of great use, either. That is eminently correct. While it is true that there is no such thing as a target that is too big or too close that you can't miss it (especially in a hurry unless you are point blank!), at the distances you can expect to encounter a threat your adjustable sights will be of little use. A Model 65 will perform just as well as either of the guns you mentioned - but getting one with a short barrel for concealed carry is problematic. But maybe you can find a 3" if you look hard enough since they are out of production.

I switched, on a regular basis, from J frames to K frames, and my EDC guns in K frames are a 2" Model 10 and a customized Model 64 that is now 2". Stoked with high quality, modern defensive ammunition I neither never feel under gunned nor unable to hit my target despite those fixed sights. "Screamers" in .357 Magnum add nothing, as far as I am concerned, to my routine ability to defend myself in the urban environment in which I routinely find myself. Again, YMMV.

[cleans up]

I'd vote with the majority, get the 66 for carry. It's your gun and shoot it how you want but I don't get the ammo choice for the range either. Sure you need to be used to the gun, but that can be accomplished by shooting other rounds. Sure you need to be certain you know how the rounds and gun opperate together but that doesn't mean it's you only option. I'll bet you'll do more to improve gun handling etc w/ 50% more 38sp rounds, which is likely based on my own and others experience vs sticking to nothing but 125gr 357mag.

[Stopsign32v]

Would a 66 be fine with extended +P 38 special through it?

[Jim PHL]

Originally Posted by Stopsign32v

Would a 66 be fine with extended +P 38 special through it?

Yes, in my opinion. I've asked often and on several different forums and have been told many times by many different posters not to be concerned with +P loads, even a lot of them, out of a 19 or 66. I've read quite a bit and settled on "treasury loads" out of all my k-framed magnums. (2- 65's and a 19). To be completely honest, I've fired very few magnums through any of them. I use the treasury loads for carry and 158 gr regular .38 or 158 gr +P for practice and find they all hit to pretty much the same point of aim, especially at 15 yards and less. All are tons of fun with standard 130 gr fmj, ("target ammo") too.

[Bill In Texas]

Originally Posted by Stopsign32v

Would a 66 be fine with extended +P 38 special through it?

Yes, it's the 125 grain and below .357 magnums that aren't recommend for it. I have a 2.5" 66 that's in my carry rotation. I haven't had it for long, just a couple of months. With the right belt and holster, it doesn't feel heavy at all. My daily carry gun is a 3" Model 60-15, which weighs in at about a .5 lb. lighter, but the 66 while it feels a little heavier, isn't uncomfortable. In the interest of full disclosure, I've never owned a 686,(at least not yet), so I can't speak to how comfortable they might be. Hope this helps!

[18DAI]

The 2.5 inch pre lock 66. Everything you need in a revolver and nothing you dont.

And on the off chance you dont like it, you will always get your money back out of it. And probably a little extra too.

That is unlikely with your other choice. Good luck with your decision! Regards 18DAI

[Kyjames]

I partial to the 66. Had a 686+ and found it was a little large for CC.

[sierra255]

I vote for the 66.

I carry a 66-1 nearly everyday all year around, and have several holsters for the occasion and season. At the range, my practice ammo is 38sp. and I buy it a 1,000 rounds at a time. At the end of my practice time, I usually shoot 12 rounds of .357 carry ammo just to feel the difference and make sure no problems have developed with my older 66. My carry ammo is: Speer 125gr. Gold Dot HP

[tomrkba]

You'll find that the extra size of the 686+ will relegate it to the "rarely or never" carried in comparison to the 66.

I guess the 629 I carry is too heavy

[Mehutch]

Look, my S&W 686-4 Plus (7 shooter) with a 2.5 inch barrel is plenty good for CC. A good holster and you'll forget you have it on. This gun is Marine tough, solid, .38 and 357 piece-O-cake. If it comes down to a gun fight, would you rather have 6 rounds of .38 or 7 rounds of .357 Magnum? .5 less of a barrel makes no noticeable difference as it drives through the heart and lungs of some poor sucker. Know what I mean?

I have carried my 686 2.5 for years, in hot and cold days. And it gives me plenty of confidence. What Me Worry?

Don't be sorry with anything less. It will only increase in value in time. It cost me - $299.95 (12-1996), what does it cost today for a pre-lock 686-4 Plus, if you can find one. Botta Bing Botta Boom!

[regalsc]

In 1981 just about everyone carried a revolver at my armored car company. For a while I carried a 25-5 4" with a duty belt & hip holster for a while & it always seemed like I had a bruise on my hip. After awhile I went to a 19 2-1/2" & what a difference. It was so much easier to do my route with the little gun. I now at my retirement job carry a 337ti & really can't feel that it's there. The heaviest one I carry now is my 66-4 3" & I can always tell it's there. For me weight does make a difference for all day. To each their own.

[Wee Hooker]

It's clear to me that your going to need both :-)

[jeeps]

I like the 686-3"+ about the perfect carry Magnum,strong good weight and size. Shooting magnums won't hurt shoot it like like the older K-frames. I retired the K-frames magnums and sold them off except one nib m-13 4". Which is a safe Queen.

[oger]

I pocket carry a 66 during the summer months. It is easy to carry and I have no reason to put thousands of mag loads through it so it should be no problem strength wise.

[Invictus357]

The 686+ 3" big advantage is that the extractor rod is full size.

This gives much more positive ejection of spent brass.

The additional round is always a bonus.

As for ammo, nothing wrong with 38 wadcutters.

I believe you could carry this all day. Provided you bought a first class holster and belt.

[Stopsign32v]

Originally Posted by Mehutch

Look, my S&W 686-4 Plus (7 shooter) with a 2.5 inch barrel is plenty good for CC. A good holster and you'll forget you have it on. This gun is Marine tough, solid, .38 and 357 piece-O-cake. If it comes down to a gun fight, would you rather have 6 rounds of .38 or 7 rounds of .357 Magnum? .5 less of a barrel makes no noticeable difference as it drives through the heart and lungs of some poor sucker. Know what I mean?

I have carried my 686 2.5 for years, in hot and cold days. And it gives me plenty of confidence. What Me Worry?

Don't be sorry with anything less. It will only increase in value in time. It cost me - $299.95 (12-1996), what does it cost today for a pre-lock 686-4 Plus, if you can find one. Botta Bing Botta Boom!

Thanks for making up my mind!

[Stopsign32v]

Originally Posted by Wee Hooker

It's clear to me that your going to need both :-)

I'm thinking this as well. Just, which one first.

[Mehutch]

When you carry a gun it is not a 'fashion' thing... yet. Fancy this and fancy that wont make you safer, faster or a better shot. Know your gun, know your load, know the law, know your heart - 'I will never be a victim because I will always be ready to help or stop any threat to me, my family or to others in danger'. Shoot or shut up. The after action will be sorted out, at least your alive and maybe saved others.

I carry the best I can afford, I shoot top drawer ammo, I practice until I practice again. I am aware of all thing around me. I visually profile everyone. I have drawn my weapon three time and have stopped some really nasty guys from harming me, and one very large black bear. We all lived life goes on. Just be the one who is ready.

More eye candy;



And my other .357 magnums at the ready.



Don't lay on the ground bleeding thinking, "If only I had bought..." Just do it.

[P-229]

Hi stopsign32v,

I'd go with a "J" Frame chambered for .38 Special.

I used to own a 2.5" Model 66. I sold it. I bought a Model 60. I've never looked back. My Model 60 is a whole lot easier to conceal and a whole lot lighter. BTW, when I owned that shorty Model 66, I always loaded it with the FBI load.

The .357 Mag achieves its impressive velocities out of 8.375" barrels. It's loaded with slow burning, doubled based powder. It needs longer barrels to achieve it's assuredly embellished velocities.

I've chrono'd 158 grain (the lightest bullet I'd use for self-defense) factory and max loaded hand loads. Both came in ~1250 FPS out of a 4" barrel. Good, but not impressive.

Here's the reality. Both of the guns you've listed are excellent weapons. However, they are belly guns. That means short range. That means they're intended to get you out of trouble, not in it.

Most shootings occur at under 10' and less. Hence, speed-to-battery and getting off rounds is crucial. You must retain sight picture.

At belly gun range, a .357 Mag is diminishing returns. It is beyond optimum velocity. At belly gun range, I'd go with the FBI load. You're not going to need blazing velocity, even if a belly gun .357 Mag could provide it, at belly gun range.

Out of a 4" 586, the .357 Mag is controllable, but recoil will take you off target, which means you'll have to find your target again before you can fire again. .357 Mag muzzle flash out of a 4" barrel would blind astronauts in orbit, which is not good for night vision. Lose your night vision, and things might not turn out well. The muzzle blast of a ,357 Mag is down right nasty. It'll ring the Liberty Bell from Arizona.

There is no such thing as a tactical handgun man stopper. The term makes for good gun magazine reading but, as with zombies, it exists only in fiction.

Of the two you've identified, I'd go with the Model 66 & load it with the FBI load.

Best of luck to you,

P-229

[Biggfoot44]

Just to be contrarian, I have shot midpack on PPC with 50yd stage with 2.75in Speed Six. With good balance and smooth DA trigger (medium frame) short bbl revolvers can do surprisingly well.

The recoil of f ll power .357 in K frame-ish revolvers is not to be taken lightly. Not impossible to control, but will take working up to ( I mean control for accurate rapid fire), and frequent practice to maintain.

In evaluating one's self , careful ammo choices are part of overall aproach. .38+P+ , medium vel 125gr .357 , or typical 110gr .357 can give a good balance of power and control in these guns.

[BAM-BAM]

I've have or had ....... 3" 65s and 66s......2 1/2" 19s and 66s ..and .....3 inch Lframes..................... over the past 30 years.........


The 3" L-frames are gone....... from a practical concealed carry perspective....they just stayed in the safe........ keep in mind that concealed carry guns....... are

carried a lot...up to.. 24/7/365......( L-frames are heavy and bulky vs. K-frames).......but shot...... 99.99999999% of the time only during qualifying and practicing.

Today's +P .38HP .......IMHO is a great/practical defense load vs. a "Screaming" .357



For concealed carry ..... give me a 3" 65/66 (I have 5 at last count)

or my second choice is a 2 1/2 inch 66/19................(I've got 2)

If I'm going to an L-frame ...... make it a 4" with a OWB holster!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rwsmith]

I REALLY like my 686 at the range.

But I have a J frame for carry. I practice SD with hot rounds, but not so hot that that I beat up my hands and gun. Then I fire a few of 'real' defensive ammo to make sure I'm shooting well.

The 66, being a 'K' frame will be much more fun to shoot at the range than my 'J' and can take 'pretty hot' loads for practice and the 'really hot' ones for 'serious' work.

I believe I would get really tired of carrying an 'L' frame around and tend to leave it home.

[wrangler5]

I normally carry a 640 - 357 Mag J frame - but with FBI load 38s. In a Lobo Enhanced Pancake holster. Which is a very nice all-day package. I will NOT shoot another 357 Mag round out of this or any other J frame. I have fired 1 Mag round to say I did it, but blast was awful, recoil was painful and recovery for the next shot (if I were going to take one) would be slow, at best.

I also have a 3" 65, with a Lobo Enhanced Pancake holster for it, too. It's a much more pleasant gun to shoot than the 640, even with 357 Mag loads. I have carried it a few times with the 38 FBI load. I've also carried a 2" 64 which fits perfectly in the same holster. But the K frames are a LOT more gun to hide, and a lot more weight to carry, and at the end of the day of carrying one I have always decided to carry a J frame the next day. Still, if you have to have more than 5 357 rounds in your concealed carry gun I think the K frame is the right package.

I just got a NIB 3" 638+ which I have only held, not fired. (I'm selling it and am not even going to cock it, to keep it as new as possible - it's a long story.) If I wanted another range 357, or a gun to carry in wilderness with a bear problem, I'd take it in a heartbeat. But it strikes me as a pretty BIG, and heavy, piece of metal to conceal and carry every day.

Frankly, if I decided I really needed more than 6 rounds of 357 Magnum power in a concealed carry gun I'd likely find a medium or small Glock in 357 Sig. (Sorry, but 10 or 14 rounds in a smaller, lighter package that will take full power loads all day . . . )

[Somerled]

I'd go with the 3" 686 solely because of the full-length extractor. Sometimes a empty .357 will hang up during a fast reload with the 2.5" Model 19 and 66 revolvers. It will be more difficult to carry concealed, but careful holster and belt selection works wonders.

I have a 3" Model 66 no-lock that only death will part me from. The Model 13 and Model 65 3-inch K-frames are great carry revolvers, too. None of them have the full-lug barrel and the thicker cylinder to contend with unlike the 3" 686.

K-frame .357s will handle 125-grain .357 loads okay. Avoid reloads with fast-burning powder, though. Most likely they'll print low with .357 125-grain ammo. One may have to elevate the rear sight very high, install a taller rear sight, or file down the front sight a bit on adjustable-sighted revolvers. I had a pair of Model 13s that also printed low with 125-grain ammo. They were spot on with 140 to 158-grainers.

[Pdxrealtor]

I carry a 686+ aiwb and on days I wear sweats I carry my 386 night guard.

Both 2.5"

686+ Remington sjhp = 1310 fps
386 NG = barnes or bb short barrel 1250 fps. It's too light to control the full house Remington.

For a 2.5" 7 shot gun 1310 fps is nice. Add to that a moon clip that hangs on pants and I've got 7 more shots.

For me and my body style to do that in 9 or 40, or 45, with that much ammo is almost impossible.

I tried a 3" and the barrel is just. 5" too long.