In an article by R. M. Vivas printed in the SCSW 3rd Edition, it is noted that the 60 NY-1 was “made available in the summer of 1987 and by late 1988 was withdrawn from service.” Mr. Vivas notes that in 1988 “a series of problems” arose. It is my understanding that the bobbed hammer that came on the 60 NY-1 was too light (low mass) and did not provide 100% reliability in popping the primer. Notwithstanding the intervention of S&W armorers, “some problems continued and the guns were removed from the authorized weapons list” in late 1988. Again, according to Mr. Vivas, the guns left in the Equipment Bureau (1,253 units) that had not been sold to individual officers were returned to S&W on June 23, 1989." It is believed the revolvers returned to S&W were modified from DAO to SA/DA and resold commercially.

When I recently purchased a Model 60-2 NY-1 (https://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/91472-just-picked-up-my-model-60-2-ny-1-photos.html), I figured it was one of the 1,253 that were returned to S&W in June of 1989. So, when I sent my letter request to Roy Jinks, I specifically asked if the revolver was one of the 1,253 returned units. When I got the factory letter below, I immediately skipped to the line that says the revolver had never been returned to S&W. I figured, well, somewhere along the way it had a replacement hammer installed. However, after I read the rest of the paragraph unique to my revolver, I noted that it was originally shipped to New York City Police Equipment Bureau on October 17, 1989.

Wait a minute, why would the Equipment Bureau be receiving a new 60 NY-1 almost a year after they had been de-authorized and four months after returning all their remaining stock to S&W? Now I’m beginning to wonder if the SA/DA hammer is original to the revolver, but then again I thought the Equipment Bureau ordered DAO for sale to the officers at that time.

Any thoughts from the NY-1 or NYPD collectors out there?

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1st Signal Brigade, RVN '70

Just a bump to the top to match it up with the other post.

Nice gun by the way.

Thanks for the bump, Nortredame. I thought there were a bunch of NYPD collectors out there who would chime in on this one.

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1st Signal Brigade, RVN '70

The Range is located at Rodman's neck Bronx NY, not Randalls Island
I hope this helps, I will stop by the range and say hi

I have just picked up in mint shape a 64 4" and a 64 3"

My NY-1 collection is growing fast with all my friends retiring

I stand corrected Sal, too busy trying to type before thinking. City Island to be specific.
Ya think a Throggs Neck boy woulda got that right first time.

Since we're talkin' NY-1's:

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Sure you did

Mike: I placed a PM for BigBoku, thanks.

Mike and Sal: Out here the LAPD directly obtains the firearms it issues to its officers such as Berettas and now Glocks. In addition to issued weapons, officers are allowed to carry other authorized weapons. Usually, the officers will obtain their authorized weapons through the Los Angeles Police Revolver and Athletic Club (LAPRAAC) located on the grounds of the Police Academy. Officers may also purchase other non-authorized firearms through LAPRAAC. I'm wondering if the Equipment Bureau operated that way, i.e., could NYPD officers order/obtain other non-authorized firearms for their personal use through the Equipment Bureau?

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1st Signal Brigade, RVN '70

That's not my understanding at all, based on a post here a few years ago by Bob Vivas. I don't think that there was EVER a problem popping primers with the M60 NY-1. Where there was a problem was with the engineers WORRYING about popping primers. Prompted by SAAMI specs, they went for a stronger mainspring. This made the size of the hammer stud (hammer pin) hole in the sideplate more critical. Even with all sideplates inspected after a recall, there were still sometimes severe functional problems from the increased mainspring weight. Eventually the repeated problems caused the NYPD Firearms Unit to nix the purchase. It is my understanding that the Firearms Unit experimented with a large number of 36's and experienced what I have experienced with a much smaller number of guns, both J & K: bobbing the hammer and changing nothing else does not reduce reliability of the gun.

Don't know if Bob Vivas still posts here. I believe that you could get the above synopsis confirmed by RichCapeCod, who was there at the time.

Model520fan is correct the hammer stud hole in the sideplate was the problem on the NY-1 Model 60's S&W inspected each of the guns at the range and if the gun was found to be within spec they stamped the inside of the frame above the yoke with a silhoutte target.

If your gun has that stamp above the NY-1 than it was one of the guns that was in the NYPD inventory. Before the changeover to the new forum R.M. Vivas has a great article on the S&W NY-1 Model 60's but I can't seem to locate it.

Hope this helps..........and FYI The NY-1 Model 60 was replaced with the S&W 640 which were not marked NY-1 on the guyn itself.

CLARIFICATION should be the header - sorry!

I was in the first class that was authorized to purchase this firearm.
After graduating the academy in 1988 we ran to purchase these for off-duty use. Since we were only allowed to use this or our service revolver (mine is a Ruger Police Six S/S spurless .38) off-duty this was the logical choice. The rush was outrageous for these; my class graduated around 2200 officers.
Within the year we were ordered to cease from carrying them and the department was doing a recall for inspection of each firearm. The problem that was found to be defective was the floating firing pin that was found in a scarce few to be breaking.
Mine was returned a few months later into 1989, and once again we were allowed to carry them. Lo' and behold a department directive was issued for us to permanently to cease from carrying the weapon. An offer to replace the spurless hammer with a regular hammer was made to us by the Firearms Training Unit - however since our class was the first to carry spurless .38's we would not be allowed to use them for off duty, but merely for our own personal target practice use.
I found this ridiculous, I opted to keep my spurless M-60 - and to this day, 21-years after I purchased it, it fires fine with no problems.
This is the factual information - if anyone wants pictures of the firearm, as well as a close-up of the firing pin, just let me know, I'll be more than happy to supply you with it.

Best I can do with my camera - I tried to get into the NY-1 MOD 60 Stamp as best I could. You can also see the firing pin we have been referring to - again this firearm had not been altered in anyway from the Firearms Training Unit at Rodmans Neck. A few of the gunsmiths actually wanted to buy it from me - NO WAY.

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The thing to remember about NYPD guns is they really aren't the NYPD's guns. Guns are the personal property of the individual officer. So if tomorrow they decide the 3914DAO is no longer authorized, I can keep mine because I bought it myself. I'm no longer authorized to carry it, but I can keep it for recreational purposes. So it's entirely possible and even common for unauthorized guns to stay in its original form in the possession of an officer.

I bought this from an NYPD Officer. Its interesting in that it has the full hammer. The guy I bought it from was not a gun guy, so, I don't think he had it converted back over. He said at "Gun Day" at the academy, they had the Smiths and the Rugers. He said he picked the biggest one possible as he is a big guy. He originally had a massive set of Pachmyers on it, but had the brand new factory grips to go with it. It letters as an NYPD gun. (I know its a Ruger, but, the title says NYPD Guns Generally!)

From my wandering around on the Ruger Forum, the NYPD Rugers are the rarest of them as the Smiths were considerably more popular. And, all the confirmed NYPD Rugers have a start stamp in the crane. The belief is they were stamped that way by the firearms unit when they passed initial inspection.

Sgt127 - In the July 1987 Class (I was in Company 87-73) we chose our service revolver in the following manner. Around August the department set out a table, you picked up one of two weapons as a male, either the Ruger, or the S&W. I chose the Ruger because my hands are very big, and the S&W just didn't sit well.

We were the first for these particular weapons; they were both spurless as you see in this picture. The only change I made was to the grips, again because of the size of my hands. The day that the person you spoke about meant, was "Gun and Shield Day" - that’s the day we receive our shields, and the guns we had already owned, and used at the range. The department held them until this particular day - so these were chosen by us five-months prior.

We NEVER had a spurred-hammer on this particular S/S model, nor did any service revolvers, or semi's have spurs after the October 1987 graduating class - we graduated in January 1988 - and when we headed to field training, NSU, all the precinct cops had to see these weapons - since we were the first. While you had these firearms, once a veteran saw you with it he knew you didn't come on before July 1987 - unless of course you for some insane reason opted to use this opposed to a blued .38 that you may have had before July 1987.

I had an 892 tax number, those in here who know about the NYPD know what that means - it depicts the time I came on.

But the picture you show is identical as mine, however no spurs were on the hammers - we were not qualified, or allowed to have them on starting in my class.

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Bob,

Welcome back! Did you relocate the gun shop, or give it up? Where are you now, and what's up?

520

In the 80's don't know if it was harder to get Highway to respond or Housing. They were both eternally not available K. If you got them to show up they told you it was'nt their job. As a Man North Patrol boss, it drove me nuts. But, now working here in S.Florida can only look back and laugh, love them all.

I bought my son (10/90 class) his O/D gun which was a 640 SS bobbed centennial in .38sp. and he is still carrying it.

RET_NYPD_MOS:

Your timeline is interesting but raises a question.

What I thought was interesting about my NY-1 is that it was shipped from S&W on October 17, 1989. At that point, it sounds like the revolver was no longer authorized for off duty carry. Which begs the question, why would the Equipment Bureau still be getting them in from S&W. Maybe mine got the "regular" hammer from the Firearms Training Unit like you describe in your posting. However, I just wonder if by mid October 1989, they were having the remainder of the order shipped with "regular" hammers.

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1st Signal Brigade, RVN '70

The equipment section in 1989 started receiving the "Centennial" edition from S&W (internal hammer) - waited for the authorization to start again for the Model 60, and knowing what a scam the contract system is with manuf. and the chiefs at purchasing I held on to little hope. I left the NYPD for a stint in Florida in the first portion of 1990 - at that time the offer was made for us to have spurred hammers put on, or leave the spurless on - but either way - you weren't authorized to carry it. A reimbursement was also offered, and “discount” coupons from S&W were to come along with the reimbursement. The idea was that those who got screwed into this deal would then purchase the Centennial - since I came back in late 1990 the off of reimbursement was off the table to me.
This meant that legally you could carry it, but if you did and got “involved” you were looking at departmental trial room - not a good thing.
I took my chances and carried it when I returned back to the NYPD at the end of 1990 - it worked great on my ankle. I didn't buy another off-duty until 2000 when we were authorized to carry Glock 26 - that's what I got.
It sounds to me that there is a bit of confusion coming from either the NYPD Equipment Section of S&W as it pertains to a shipment in October 1989 for the equipment section resale purposes. These may have either been inadvertently sent, the repaired/inspected weapons being sent back, or replacement for those with defects, and perhaps there were the Centennials being sent.
In Oct 1989 this was the height of the department recall. So is it possible that the bureaucrats in the city were still taking delivery of these weapons, sure - but they weren't being sold to personnel.

Today at a gun show, I showed the Model 60 to an "Expert" - who have me a history about the Model 60 I had - he was wrong about everything. I smiled, took my firearm and walked away.

didn't other people than just NYPD officers get to buy guns from the NYPD equipment bureau? like fireguys and ADA's and feds? anyhow if one of these "Other" purchasers ordered a M-60 it seems that S&W could possibly send them one of the returned guns and then it would letter as sent to NYPD but after it was removed from the approved list for the NYPD....maybe?
Regards,
Rich

No - Equoiment section purchases were for just MOS (Members of the Service - NYPD term for its sworn employees) - what happens is once a firearm is authorized you may purchase it from a licensed store. These firearms were not available to these stores - on the NYPD Equipment section at One Police Plaza - whereas we had to call before coming down just to make sure stock of the firearms, or even any equipment was available for purchase - that's right we had to buy ALL of our equipment, even the pin that held on our shield. Being in highway myself, that got rather expensive.

How can you tell if you have a fake stamped NY-1?? Here is a shot of my 2" 64-4 NY-1. I assume it is real as it also has the serial number laser engraved on left side of frame.

I am still looking for a 3" if anyone wants to part with one

Joined in 1984 and my memory is slightly different, and very little of it left. Anyway, we were issued Blue Model 10's, heavy barrel only, and the only option I remember was a Ruger. For off duty we could carry the Colt, Smith or service Ruger. I carried my model 10 in a swivel holster til retirement in 2004. My wife joined the dept in 88 and carried a stainless model 64. Off duty were the chiefs purchased from the equiptment section. I purchsed quite a few, don't know where they went. I recently found a receipt for one I purchased in 1996 for $336. Anyway we are both cops here in Florida and carry Glocks, but still have a fondness for Wheel guns, ( me not her). One thing I do remember as a PCT Sgt (32 pct) was the transition to 9mm. The cops were allowed to either choose a Glock or Smith semi, but at the initial change over Sig Sauer also were tried. The initial batched had issues with rusting so they were never approved and all returned to Sig. Funny thing it was almost a badge of honor to allow your service weapon to get so rusted/dirty/ corroded that the range Officers could'nt open them. Always a big joke back at the PD. Also when I retired in 04 I took my model 10 to a shop for trade-in, I believe it was Jovinos, or the one near old Police Plaza. Anyway, they offered me twenty five dollars. So disgusted, I left it in my locker when I retired and never went back for it. Wish I did, but, at least we have wifes model 64 and brother-in-law"s Ruger, Police six (also retired). When I came down to Florida had a garage sale and sold or gave away every NYPD item i still had, wanted it to be a memory and nothing else. Did'nt know I'd be a cop here again, or wife either. The kids on the block were all dressed in NYPD stuff and had a ball playing cops and robbers. Still after 9/11 I wish I kept the uniform I wore that day, dusty dirty and all. It's somewhere here though in Florida, probably in a kids storage/play box. Sorry for the rant, just alot of memories. Never thought i'd miss the NYPD, but really they were the most professional Cops I ever met. Been doing it now here in Florida almost 5 years, hate every second of it but pays for the toys like my new 13-3 3 inch.

I was part of the retiree contingent that responded - I still have my air filter from the initial day with all the dust still on and in it - and the helmet they gave me at Fresh Kills - I'm donating it a 9/11 rememberance organization. Aside from that - I have the polyps in my nasal cavity as a constant reminder from sucking in that ****.

On NY-1 fakes the NY-1 does not line up, they could never get it straight. The actions are horrible(cylinder bind) A gun store in Long Island was busted for that, and any guns from that store were turned down by the range and sent back.

Laser is real, issued around 1990- 1991,

The actions and fitting on the ones around that time are perfect.

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sal1911a1

Sal - I don't know - take a look at my 60 on page 2 - that's a city NY-1 stamp - orangehole's stamp is way more perfect than mine - and I got that one from 1 PP.

I know this is an old thread, my 60-2 has two markings stamped above the NY-1. Wonder what they are and mean. I bought this gun new from a major sports retail store in Florida in 1989. It is accurate and has a smooth action.
Thanks,

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The mark under my NY-1 stamp - if I remember correctly was that this showed that the range inspected this during the recall.

And Florida 1098 is right on the mark - once a year, usually in the summer the bosses wold have us bring in all of our firearms and make sure everything was on the up and up on our 10 cards. I would delay and delay out of pure laziness - until I was threatened with DOA or EDP watching at CIH, KCH, or IZ - all of a sudden my guns were at the desk!

Ok, ok. Clearly you guys learned well to always have a story.

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NRA Life Member

How popular are the NYPD Centennials with factory frosted finish? I have a spare one and am looking to sell it off.

I just bought one, paid $350

Its a 640 no dash, not P+ marked

Its in decent shape some holster wear and some wear on the grips

I will have some pics soon!

Hi Louie, nice prefix. Hope all's well in NY-1 land!

I am really late on this but . I came on the NYPD in 1982. I picked the ruger police service six for my service weapon. we had full hammers . not that dao ****. Back when i came on the job, NYPD trusted us with single action . the guys that later came on messed up big time with all the accidental shootings.87 class got the **** end. When you saw a officer with a REAL! hammer revolver , you knew he was a vet. Im a 877 tax number and I'm still here baby with my smith and wesson 5946

I'm retired NYPD as well and was given the choice between the S&W 64 and the Ruger GPNY (GP100 in spurless). I chose the 64 before eventually switching to the Glock. I like Rugers and own a Service Six in .357, but the Ruger just looks WRONG with the spurless hammer, and particularly with those rubber Pachmayr grips on it. The S&W still has flowing, pleasing lines, even with the bobbed hammer. The Ruger (the Service Six especially), looks deformed with the spurless hammer and big rubber grips.

Who are you calling ugly



I'd call it awkward!!


Little better looking



Much nicer looking!!

That's an understatement.

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Sure you did

Wheelgun, I just threw up a little in my mouth!

no way bro. i wasnt going spurless. i never changed the original wood grips. i just put t handle on. till the 93 transition to 9's

I just love reviving these old posts. I had a question about getting a letter from S&W. I just purchased my model 60-2 NY-1 revolver and was wanting to get a letter as well. I called S&W but got nowhere with the automated system. Any information you might be able to provide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

There were some S&W NY-1 guns that never were sold to NYPD vendors or such, but were over-runs and went to the commercial market. I bought a 4 inch Model 64 NY-1 brand new in the box from Harrison Carol in 1988. Round butt, DAO, spurless hammer, frosted or bead blast finish, S/N AWT29xx. Mr. Carol advised me there were about 60 over-run guns in that batch. It's still unfired and I ought to find it a new home.

Letters now come through the historical society.

Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation - Letter Process - Insuring that the rich history of Smith & Wesson will continue for generations to come

They cost $75 and I dont think in this case will tell you anything that we cant splice together on our own. I saw your gun in another thread, it has been restored to DA/SA. I am guessing its a return that was resold by S&W.

The complete story can be found in some threads here and in the Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson. Its interesting and you might enjoy the read.

Another place that has loads of information but will take some time to sort through is

Index Page

If you use your serial number and look through the invoices you will find it. Also look in the returned pages and I think you will find it too. This will also give you the shipping date.

Happy Hunting!

This one came from a Suffolk County, New York retired LEO a long time ago.

Thanks to member DenverDick who sent me a list of NYPD Model 60s serial numbers returned to S&W from NYPD surplus, my 60-2, NY-1, is NOT on the list of those NYPD Model 60s returned to S&W.

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ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

Just wondering if any of the NYPD retiree's ever shot at the 71st. Regiment Armory on 33rd and Park Ave. ? In the 50's my high school rifle team used that range after the detectives were through at 4PM. "Hey kid ya wanna shoot my gun"??

Stu