I have a 3913 that has a crack in the frame near the slide stop rear opening. It runs forward and up to the top of the frame rail. I've heard of the possibility of aluminum alloy being welded. Anybody have anything to offer as to the possibilities. (already checked out the S&W repair options...none)

Thanks for any help offered.

Contact Grayguns, Inc. I saw a post by Bruce Gray on the sigforum.com where he said he could fix a Sig that had such type damage.

Call S&W first see what they can do for you, they have notoriously the best C/S

Would require a TIG welder & expertise in using it & finishing afterwards
I wouldn't be afraid of using Bruce Gray as suggested above, He's a Master Gunsmith..
I too would try an contact S&W, They might send a shipping label out to you & repair it for FREE?? I would try this first..
Good Luck!!
Gary/Hk

Usually S/W will replace frame,I think now they can even laser etch your old serial # on the new frame.Please let us know how they respond, Thanks Bob

You must first determine the alloy used in manufacture, then the crack must be beveled to form a V-groove joint. Then it can be tig welded using the correct filler rod that is compatible with the base metal. I would then machine it back to original dimensions. If possible it is always good to leave (some) reinforcement on the face of the weld. Should be as good as new.
Probably the same process Gray uses, I hope this helps. I tig welded aluminum alloys, stainless steel, and carbon steel for the dept. of transportation for about 20 yrs. It CAN be repaired by someone with the proper knowledge and technique.
Hope everything works out for ya,
Peace,
gordon

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better have that checked

Some aluminum alloys are not considered weldable, unfortunately this includes the high strength 7000 series (like 7075) that is frequently used for frames. If you had a steel frame you'd have a better chance. See if S&W will replace the frame.

To answer your ?, yes it can be welded,any aluminum can be welded,but will it hold up is the ?,I am a 32 yr Tig welder with a ton of gun welding under my belt,Charles Danner is a long time customer of mine and over the years we have welded a great variety of guns,with that said if S&W will replace it by all means it will be better.

Thanks for the replies. I have e-mailed Mr Gray and am awaiting his response. I did discuss with S&W right away when I discovered the crack. They would offer nothing but sympathy. I even questioned them about frame replacement. No help there, either. This was a cop trade-in and they just won't touch them.

Did you by any chance ask S&W what it would cost you to replace the frame? Now it could be that they simply don't have any unserialed frames remaining in that model series, but frame replacement used to be possible, if sometimes costly. That way you could do a cost comparison between new vs repair with the possibility that the repair might not work out (no slight intended against any of the craftsmen mentioned, sometimes stuff happens.)

FWIW Mr Gray says he cannot weld these frames. I may try S&W again.

I agree with the statement made by the other's on Tig welding. I have been Tig welding for quite some time and know exactly what they are talking about.

Anything can be welded. But the end result is not as impressive in some types of materials and situations as explained as well.

I would be curious to see a picture of the crack.

What I would say is at worse case right now if SW wont replace it or sell a replacement frame, then what do you have to hurt by welding it and trying it.

Shoot me a picture of it, I am curious to see what it looks like anyways...

[email protected]

Good luck
Todd

I guess my question is: Does the crack actually make any difference? It's not nice that it cracked but is it cracked in a spot that matters? May be a shoot it and forget about it situation.

The problem I would see with a crack, is it was caused by stress , improper casting or machining etc.

If it was bad in that area, it might be bad in others. If it cracked that area and its left cracked , it may stress another area and is that area going to be the one that blows up in your hand one day ?

I know the likeness of that happening might be slim. But is it a chance your willing to take ?

If you can post a picture of it ( or like I said earlier email me it if you can't post it ) I would like to see the crack location.

Is this a common failure in the 3913 ? I have been searching for one for some time, but had not heard of cracked frames as a possible problem.

I wouldn't want anyone too jump to conclusions on this crack as to the cause. I know I dropped it on a tile floor once when cleaning it. I couldn't find any problem at the time, but I also can't rule out that as the cause. It was a few weeks later that I discovered it. I will try to get a good picture of it and send it to you. I do appreciate your interest.

Got the email and pictures.

That is a dozy of a crack. I would say its time to look for something else. Thats not in a good area.

Is it a postable pic?

It's real hard to weld small aluminum parts like that for a couple of different reasons which makes me think replacing the frame may be the way to go.

I received Customcreationz assessment via e-mail and I assume its a very reasonable one. I agree and will continue to look for an option to replace the frame, although that's not too viable either. S&W said they had none available.

Thanks for all your input.

Got the same prob, cast aluminum frame broke off in a corner when I removed the pin holding grips. Smith says it's no fault of theirs. Guess that vaunted "lifetime warranty" just ain't what it used to be.

"Got the same prob, cast aluminum frame broke off in a corner when I removed the pin holding grips. Smith says it's no fault of theirs. Guess that vaunted "lifetime warranty" just ain't what it used to be."
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Neither is personal responsibility, evidently.

And pray tell what would that mean ?

Ok, kind of what I figured... lol

The types of aluminum used in gun frames if NOT considered weldable, tig, mig, micro or otherwise. Does not matter with theses alloies it they were cast or machined from a billet. Notice how airplane bodies and wings are riveted and not welded? . Close to the same alloy. The weld itself is not the problem, the problem is the heat effected zone beside the weld will be very brittle and very prone to cracking and there is nothing that can be done about it, YET. I have heard of a experimental process where they are putting titanium particles in the weld zone to combat this with some success. At this point you would spend more money than a frame is worth to have a sub par frame.

A cracked grip frame could probably be welded and hold up as it is not normally a high stress area.

That's what I'm thinking and fortunately I'm mission capable.


I just thought I'd give them a chance to do the right thing.

The reason that life time warranty isn't what it used to be is the same reason a lot of things with America companies have changed. Most of them have surrendered to the bean counters, and customer satisfaction and word of mouth reputation doesn't show up well on a profit loss spread sheet. Same goes for quality control. If they can't see it presented as Positive $$$$ it didn't happen and they can't present it on the quarterly reports.

Yep, but they really shouldn't tout it if they're not going to back it. In all fairness I'm guessing they don't have another frame lying around and I'm pretty sure no one on their payroll can weld it. They did offer me a Shield at a slightly reduced price but I'm not of a mind to trade a 600 dollar gun for a 400 dollar one. The -right- thing to have done would have been to offer me something of equal value. I'm going to pass.


My kid's stationed at 29 stumps - bucking for Sgt.

Very good advice, Gordon. The only thing I would add is that the heat of welding takes the heat treat out of heat treated aluminum alloys in the HAZ (heat affected zone). Where strength is a factor (firearms frames?) these parts "should" be re-heat treated. In my experience, people rarely do this. Either they don't know, or are willing to take a chance. Having said that, I have seen aluminum motorcycle frames, swingarms, car rims, etc. welded with no issues. It comes down to how much liability the person doing the repairs wants to take on. Personally, I wouldn't take on this job for that reason.

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'Merica!

Firearms use either 7075 or 6061. 6061 aluminum alloy is better known as aircraft aluminum. The M-16’s receiver is made with 7075 aluminum, as is the frame of the Beretta Model 92, one of the longest serving models in American history.

By Frank Armao February 12, 2020
Article on welding 6061aluminum

We fabricate and weld 6061-T6 aluminum in various product forms. We understand that the ultimate tensile strength (UTS) of welded 6061-T6 is significantly lower than the starting strength. However, a few people have told me recently that we can restore the strength of welded components after welding to T6 levels by performing a low-temperature aging treatment after welding. Is this true?

I wish that were true because it would make life a lot simpler. Unfortunately, it is not.
The required minimum UTS for almost all 6061-T6 product forms is 40 KSI. However, all fabrication codes (AWS D1.2, ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code, etc.) only require a minimum of 24 KSI UTS after welding. This is the value you need to meet when tensile testing is part of qualifying a welding procedure. It typically isn’t very difficult to do. Usually you obtain 25 or 26 KSI on testing the tensile samples.

So what happens if you follow recommendations and age the welded sample before testing? The heat-affected zones (HAZs) do age up a bit, but you will find that when you test the tensile samples, they are only 1 to 2 KSI stronger than unaged samples—in the range of 25 to 27 KSI, which isn’t anywhere close to T6 properties.

The only way to completely restore T6 properties is to perform a complete reheat treatment of the component. This consists of a solution heat treatment at around 1,000 degrees F followed by a rapid cold-water quench, followed by the low-temperature (400 F) aging treatment. This process is complex and difficult, but certainly possible if you have the experience and skill.

From Blackstone Advance Technologies on welding 7075

It is technically possible to weld 7075 aluminum. If a welder applies heat, they can join two pieces together. But the result isn't what a layperson might think.

When a welder applies high heat to 7075 aluminum, it creates microcracks as it cools. These are too small to be seen by the naked eye, so a casual observer would think the 7075 aluminum welded just fine.

Unfortunately, these microcracks have a serious impact on the tensile strength of the metal, and makes the weld very brittle. It doesn't take a lot of pressure for the weld to snap.

It's true that it's still possible to weld 7075 aluminum for some industrial applications, such as repairing molds for injection or blow molding plastics. However, these are extremely limited, non-structural applications -- and structural applications are exactly where this strong, lightweight material excels.

Some researchers are developing methods for safely welding 7075 aluminum and other alloys. It's possible that down the line these techniques will see industrial application, but they take highly specialized materials and processes. Right now, it's impossible for the average welder to safely work with 7075 aluminum.

Just because a welder can do something doesn't mean they should. It is technically possible to weld 7075 aluminum and comparable alloys, but never for any structural applications. The result simply isn't safe.


ME
As I mentioned earlier there is now a high tech filler metal that improves the weld ability of 7075

MetaLi LLC, has started to sell the nanotechnology enhanced aluminum 7075 welding wires
(https://www.metaliusa.com/)

Get out your wallet and be prepare to pay more than your frame is worth for some filler metal then heat treat it afterwards to get a frame that will still not be 100%

PS, 2 of my brothers and I weld and fit. All three of us have been certified pipe welders. One brother got his certs as a ASME certified welding inspector. Even if we don't know how to weld something we know how to find out.

Like I said. It should not be a problem for a piece of grip frame. But a slide, a slide stop hole, a rail, under the barrel shank on a revolver. No, if you want any high percentage of original strength out of it.

I do have a digitally controlled HT over that can ramp and hold and could possibly HT a weld. BUT, doing it and maintaining tolerances while heating a piece of light 100% finished aluminum up to 1000f and then water quenching it and following that by a long soak at 400f may well be another story. Plus you would need to remove any steel from the frame like hammer, trigger, rebound and cylinder lock studs, firing pin bushing etc before proceeding. Steel does not expand or contract at the same rate as aluminum

Once again a new gun would be cheaper unless you had the equipment, knowledge and time to burn on a big maybe.

I usually call my rep at Lincoln, if he doesn't know, he knows someone who does.