10-2-11
Admin Edit-

STAY OUT of this thread if you don't have any pertinent discussion to add.
California bashing is NOT pertinent discussion.
If that is not clear, I'll be clarifying it for you.

Lee Jarrett
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I am not sure if this is the right section or not so mods feel free to move. If you don't feel it is appropriate for the sight I ask you to reconsider but if you wish this be taken down just let me know. I have used this process without issues on more than one occasion to buy pre lock s&w's from the board and fromgunbroker. This is specific to California and working around the approved handgun roster. The roster has an exeption for single action revolvers and this post explains how to convert a double action revolver to single action so it can be legally imported into California.

How to convert your S&W revolver from Double Action/Single Action to Single Action Only so it is legal for import into California.

I have been asked on more than one occasion how I have purchased pre lock S&W from out of state through the single action revolver exception. So I have decided to create this how to guide to help those other smith collectors on this board. A lot of this same process can be used to convert other brand revolvers as well.

The law says that single action revolver that holds 5 or more rounds with a barrel of over 3 inches and an overall length of 7.5 inches is roster exempt. This means that any S&W K, L, N or X frame revolver with a barrel over 3 inches can be imported into the state of California once converted to Single Action. I have not verified if a J frame with a 3 inch barrel meets the overall length requirement of 7.5 inches.

Now you need to find a local FFL that is willing to accept a S&W revolver from out of state that has been converted to single action. I have found that Rob Blank at RMB Enterprises in Milpitas will accept revolvers like this.

Some FFL's will let you convert the revolver yourself in there shop before starting the paperwork negating the need for it to be done out of state. If you are going to do this you should be proficient in the conversion process. An FFL does not want to be answering your questions on how to put the revolver back together or have your shenanigans stop them from being able to help other customers.

You know what gun you have been lusting after that meets the size requirements, now you just need to find someone selling it that is open minded.

Ultimately you are going to be removing the double action sear from the hammer. This is what causes the hammer to cock back when the trigger is pulled. Once this is removed and the gun is put back together when the trigger is pulled the cylinder will still rotate but the hammer will not cock. However; the gun will still work when the hammer is cocked manually, thus making it single action only. Since removing the double action sear requires a hammer and a punch I have found it best to purchase a used hammer from gunbroker and remove the double action sear myself. Then if someone is going to do the conversion I can ship out the hammer and it becomes a drop in job. Also if you are doing the conversion at a gun shop just dropping in the hammer without the double action sear in place of the stock hammer is much faster. After a few tries the conversion process takes less than 10 minutes and all you need is a screw driver.

Here is a picture of a factory N frame hammer next to a N frame hammer that the double action sear has been removed. Note the red arrow shows the double action sear.



This following section is for those that do not know how to take your S&W apart. I am going to be using my 624 3 inch for an example.



First thing you are going to do is remove the grips. Next you are going to unscrew 4 screws using the proper sized hollow ground screw drivers. The first three hold the side plate on, the 4th screw holds the leaf spring. Please note which screws come from which holes as they are all different.



So now you are going to need to take the side plate off (do not pry the side plate off!). The easiest way to mess your S&W up is to try and pry the side plate off. So you are probably thinking, "the side plate is on there really well, I don't even know why they need screws. How the heck am I going to get this thing off?!?!?" Don't worry, I have you covered. What you are going to do is turn the gun over and strike the frame in the two spots indicated in the picture bellow. You are going to use a rubber gunsmithing hammer or something like the back of a rubber screw driver. If you are working on a blued revolver it might be best to use a towel in between the gun and the hammer. Make sure to keep your week hand that is supporting the gun under the side plate, don't want it to pop off and fall on the ground.



Once the side plate comes off you are going to see this



The red arrow shows the transfer bar safety, this sits on top of everything else. It can easily fall out. The green arrow shows the double action sear. The blue arrow shows where the trigger and hammer meet. To remove the hammer you are going to need to remove the transfer bar safety. Then you are going to pull the hammer back to almost half cock. Then you are going to need to pull the trigger back till about the same point. Once you pull the trigger back so it is not touching the hammer you will then be able to remove the hammer. Then you replace it with the hammer that has had the double action sear removed.

Now you are going to need to reassemble the smith. First thing you are going to do is install the leaf spring. It hooks onto the back of the hammer and fits into the grove at the bottom of the frame. Once the screw is in place you can test the revolver for function before putting the side plate back on. Second thing you do is install the transfer bar safety. Note on the inside of the side plate that a small grove that the bar fits into. Also on the top of the inside of the side plate is a small nub that fits beneath the frame.

You are going to start by installing the part of the side plate with the nub first making sure that the transfer bar safety is in its proper place. Next you are going to gently push in the other areas of the side plate. Once you are sure the side plate is lined up properly you are going to use the same rubber screw driver handle or rubber hammer to tap the plate back into place. Again, use a towel if you are working on a blued revolver. Once the plate is fully seated you are going to install the remaining three screw in the correct holes. Now install the grips and you have a single action s&w revolver.

Once you wait your 10 days and get your new revolver home you are going to need to follow the same exact procedures to return the factory hammer in place of the single action only hammer. Then you are going to crack open a beer and take pride in how you have stuck it to the man.

I hope this helps you get that hard to find smith.

Jordan

Hi. I'm attempting this conversion on a Model 651. I see that it uses a compression spring rather than the leaf spring you show on your model. See the attached pictures. What's the best way to remove the spring so that I can take the tension off and remove the hammer? I don't want to sideload or bend the shaft running through the spring. Thanks

Attached Images

	Grips Off & Screws Removed.jpg (45.9 KB, 236 views)
	Compression Spring.jpg (41.9 KB, 239 views)
	Sideplate Removed.jpg (49.5 KB, 373 views)

Cock the hammer and you will notice a little hole in the strut that runs through the spring.

Unbend a paper clip and stick it through the hole.

Lower the hammer and remove the spring/strut/cap assembly.

This is a big Thanks to the Op for trying to help the revolver loving folks in CA with the additional capability of getting a revolver of there choice that they can't find locally more easily to enjoy their passion. It is also an education to others (out of state) that the more modern revolvers can be shipped here with a simple single shot conversion or directly (SA/DA) if it's 50 years old.

I really DOUBT he wants to see this thread turn into a Kalifornia bashing.

Can you point me to something on the CADOJ site that specificly states conversions of non-approved D/A revolvers to S/A function sidesteps the Roster and can be sent to CA as a S/A revolvers.

I couldn't find anything there. Just the orig language about the S/A revolvers and their specs for being exempt (bbl length, height, etc).

Thanks,,

What would prevent one from restoring the revolver back to original configuration and would it be legal to do so?

Absolutely nothing.

Yes. The CA DOJ laws only apply to the gun when it is being transferred from the FFL to the buyer. After the buyer takes possession of it, he can do whatever modifications he wants.

(Over at Calguns.net there's a link to the CA Gunlaws wiki that will have much more detailed info than my funky little post. )

Edit: Here's the specific cite, but the entire section is well worth a read, if you're living in CA:

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in..._are_permitted

OK I compressed the spring, found the hole and inserted the paper clip. I removed the hammer and pressed out the pin holding the sear and the spring. I put everything back together. I can now lock the hammer back and pulling the trigger releases it. But pulling the trigger without locking the hammer back advances the cylinder but also moves the hammer forward about 1/8" with each pull of the trigger. Is this normal? Thanks

Yes, it's normal. It's caused by the rebound slide moving out from under the toe of the hammer when moved to the rear by pulling the trigger.

Larry

I used a square to getmuzzle to back of gun, that is okay?
I just measured a 3"er, and it seems to be exactly 7-1/2".
It looks like you'd have to build up the back of the stocksabout 1/16"
to get it "over" 7-1/2". A square-butt's stocks extend 1/8"-3/16"
beyond that. Use round-to-square stocks? TACC1

here's the law for you to read for yourself, fortunately for us revolver people it exists and lawful, I just located an FFL locally that will allow me to do the conversion in there shop prior to paperwork/transfer, now I just need to find one on my wishlist.

12133. (a) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a single-action revolver that has at least a 5-cartridge capacity with a barrel length of not less than three inches, and meets any of the following specifications:
(1) Was originally manufactured prior to 1900 and is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.
(2) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at least 7 1/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled.
(3) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at least 7 1/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled and that is currently approved for importation into the United States pursuant to the provisions of paragraph (3) of subsection (d) of Section 925 of Title 18 of the United States Code.

Explain why you would want to convert??? Ok, I can see if it is some cherished family heirloom, or some fabulous old collectors item (which I wouldn't shoot anyway), but if you just want something to shot, you can go buy any old grandfathered-in or spanking new revolver from the S&W's catalog. If its that big a deal, I guess I will be selling off my old S&W's at a premium price!

The only thing that is grand fathered in is face to face purchases. So you have to find someone else local to you that is willing to sell the revolver you want. So people can usually find a pre lock 686 without much issue because they made so many of them. But try finding a smith that less than 150 of them were made without buying it on the Internet.
Also, because the supply of s&w's are relatively fixed in the state of ca that means the price goes up. Things have calmed down a bit now but I have seen guns here go for a few hundred dollars more than nation wide pricing.
What this does is make the buyer of s&w in California closer to equal to a buyer in the other states with a couple of hand tools.

This process has allowed me to purchase the following s&ws from out of state and have them shipped into california

First post edited to add-

STAY OUT of this thread if you don't have any pertinent discussion to add.
California bashing is NOT pertinent discussion.
If that is not clear, I'll be clarifying it for you.

__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett

12133. (a) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a single-action revolver that has at least a 5-cartridge capacity with a barrel length of not less than three inches, and meets any of the following specifications:
(1) Was originally manufactured prior to 1900 and is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.
(2) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at least 7 1/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled.
(3) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at least 7 1/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled and that is currently approved for importation into the United States pursuant to the provisions of paragraph (3) of subsection (d) of Section 925 of Title 18 of the United States Code.

According to this law, wouldn't the 7.5" length limit which wheelguns can be converted? Does anyone know if N-frames with 4" barrels are over 7.5" length overall?

Thank you to all for the above information.

One question: Where do I find a single-action-only hammer? Or do I buy a double-action hammer and remove the DA sear? The only S&W hammers that I found on-line were at Numrich Gun Parts: Numrich Gun Parts Corporation

I do have an FFL in San Diego’s North County who is willing to do such transfers: National Police Supply

Thank you!
Frank

Its relatively easy to just remove the sear on the current hammer its only retained by a pin. Once that has been pushed out just retain the sear, sear spring, and pin.

The hammers online are generally already gtg for single action only since I don't believe they ship with the DA sears. You can do it this way too if you dont want to futz around with the original hammer. Depending on the gun you may need to buy a hammer stirrup and pin for the new one. MIM hammers are the easiest since the DA sear is held in by spring tension only.

You only need to buy a new hammer to make the process quicker at the the ffl. I have 4 extra hammers or different sizes just for this. My n frame hammer has been used countless times for this, though only used my k frame rimfire hammer once. I few times I did not think I would ever need that same size hammer again so I just removed the sear, pin and spring at the shop. Just have to make sure not to loose any of the small parts.

Has anyone asked a lawmaker if this is ok? or are we just intentionally circumventing the statute to avoid prosecution....

Disabling a feature temporarily, rather than a permanent feature such as a SAA Army, sounds suspiciously like trouble... jmho

It's not trouble at all. The regulations say single action revolvers are exempt. Single action means two distinct acts to fire (pull of the hammer than a separate pull of the trigger). By removing the double action sear the revolver become site action be definition and thus roster exempt.
The roster only applies to what firearms can be sold by ffl's to private parties. Non rostered guns can be owned and used since they could have been owned prior to the roster or imported into the state by other legal means (came with someone when they moved into the state, or gifted to someone by a parent from out of state).
So the gun is made roster compliant before been transferred to a buyer in California. The buyer waits his 10 days and picks up his gun from the ffl and goes home (completes the legal transfer of the revolver). Since the gun is legal to own in either single action or da/sa the revolver can then the gun can be converted back to original configuration.
Thousands of handguns are being sold in California by these same means. Ffl's who do this process have been audited without issue. If your not comfortable with this process that is fine; I understand, it is different. But just because it's different or your uncomfortable does not make it illegal.

Just found and read this post. Glad to see that there is a legitimate means by which folks in california can legally buy and own the S&W revolvers they want.

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shooting4life, what I'm saying is, it's not a single action design. It's a double action design with single action capability that only has the double action disabled.......

of course, you already knew this...

no dog in this fight, left Kalifornia decades ago for free America...

What it was or what it was designed to be does not matter, what it is is all that matters.

Gentlemen

I am impressed by the ingenuity shown here. It just goes to show you that what my old Daddy used to tell me is so true...

" Son where there is a WILL there is a WAY... all you gotta do is find it. "

Many shooters in other states tend to blindly overlook the fact that, even as the minority in our home state of California, we still comprise a dedicated group which vastly dwarfs that of most any other state.

There is also no lack of well-educated and highly capable minds here to scrutinize our restrictive gun laws. Because of all those efforts, there are COMPLETELY LEGAL ways for us to enjoy most all the same benefits that people in other states take for granted.

Thanks for posting this great thread, Shooting4life. You do us all a great service by bringing this up, and I would suggest that this information might even be used as a sticky somewhere on this website, so that our brothers in other states can educate themselves on such matters.

Hi All, I just posted a How-To video if you're interested.

How to remove the double action sear on a S&W K frame - YouTube

David

Here is a URL listing everything a potential CA buyer may want to know regarding importing a non-roster firearm that is 49 years old or newer into California. via SSE http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=383692

50yrs or older are C&R and do not need to be converted.

David