Straighten ejector rod

H Richard · Dec 12, 2015

I am working on a Mod 18-4 for a friend today, he had complained he hadn't shot it in years because it wouldn't eject the empties, and he had to beat the empties out of it. Well, I reamed out the chambers with my Manson finishing reamer, but he has bent the ejector rod. It will cycle around about 4 rounds worth, then get pretty hard to advance. With the gun open the cylinder will rotate to a point then bind. I can see the movement in the rod when I rotate the cylinder.

This is something I have never done, and don't have a good idea how to start or if I should start or get it to someone who knows. Is this something one should attempt if you have not done it before.I'm pretty adept with most things inside a K Frame. Need some guidance.

armorer951 · Dec 12, 2015

Jerry Kuhnhausen has some good illustrations and info on this in his S&W revolver shop manual. Not a difficult task with the proper tools.

Just my opinion.....If you have not done this before and are unfamiliar with the proper procedure.....and if you don't have the correct tools, you should probably rely on a well equipped, experienced gunsmith. Especially considering this is someone elses revolver.

Muss Muggins · Dec 12, 2015

You need these, one each. Put the cylinder with ejector rod attached in the jig, spin the cylinder and whack the rod occasionally with the big hunk of lead until the wobble no longer appears.. If that makes you nervous, and you don't have the tools, do what the fella in Indiana suggested. . . .

SAFireman · Dec 12, 2015

Muss Muggins said:
... whack the rod occasionally with the big hunk of lead. . . .

As unscientific as this process sounds, it is correct. In fact, a lot of S&W's 'fixes' involved whacking things with a babbitt bar (essentially a big chunk of lead rod)

Muss is correct, you need the right tools for the job, even if they seem somewhat barbaric

Muss Muggins · Dec 12, 2015

SAFireman said:
As unscientific as this process sounds, it is correct. In fact, a lot of S&W's 'fixes' involved whacking things with a babbitt bar (essentially a big chunk of lead rod)

Muss is correct, you need the right tools for the job, even if they seem somewhat barbaric

I straightened a rebound spring frame pin the other day by whacking a brass drift punch against it using that big hunk of lead . . .

H Richard · Dec 13, 2015

Well, I did have a barrel on a Mod 19 "adjusted" with a babbitt bar quite a few years ago, the armorer asked me if I really wanted to watch before whacking away at it. I'm not going to attempt this one, it will probably go back to S&W.

Big Cholla · Dec 13, 2015

Years ago I learned all there was to know about judicious 'whacking' on precision equipment that needed to be whacked; I owned a Triumph TR-4 sports car. I attempted to start it one afternoon when it and I were really cold. My fingers slipped and I activated the starter twice. The second time the starter motor cramped gears and bent the starter shaft. I took the starter to a foreign auto mechanic that had been an aviation engine mechanic. I asked if he knew a way to straighten the shaft. He set up a couple of "V" blocks on a rock solid work bench and told me to totally disassemble the starter. When I had it down to just the shaft with the rotor he placed it between the "V" blocks and rotated it until the 'high'spot was up. He then hit it with a brass hammer. He continued to do this until I could detect no more out of alignment. He had me do some of the hitting. He then got out the dial indicator and we got real delicate in hitting the shaft. After about 30 minutes of our attention the shaft had no detectable readout at any given spot. I put the starter back together and it worked perfectly.

A few years later I was racing desert motorcycles. I took a fall and bent one of my fork tubes. I took it apart and located the bend spot. I then copied the method the foreign auto mechanic taught me and a little while later had the tube back into acceptable shape for a desert racing motorcycle. ....... Lesson well learned.

In my Smith and Wesson Armorer's Class, the Instructor asked if anyone was familiar with the bending technique to use in bringing back bent rods to specification. I said I was, and I was the first to give it a go. I walked a bent ejector rod back in short order. After that the rest of the class was less reluctant to give a S&W revolver a good whack with the Babbitt Bar when it was called for. .............

H Richard · Dec 15, 2015

Well, I may have fixed it. When I reassembled it I tightened up the ejector rod very tight, (I put it in my drill press chuck and hand tightened it) as it had been loose when he gave it to me. Out of curiosity, I loosened it up, and just snugged it by hand and it spins freely and no apparent wobble of the shaft. I am taking it to the range tonight and testing the shooting/ejecting and how it operates. It may have been me tightening it too much? I didn't know it was possible. I'll wring it out and we will see.

Muss Muggins · Dec 15, 2015

All of what you describe is possible. I never considered a loose ejector rod, thinking that you were certain it was bent. The loose rod would be one of the first things an armorer would check before seeing if it was bent. Good luck with it.

H Richard · Dec 15, 2015

The rod wasn't loose, but possibly over-tightened. I have never experienced this before, it would let the cylinder turn past 4 chambers, then bind up an turn very hard to get past that then loosen up again. I "assumed" it was a bent rod inside the yoke causing that. With the rod just snug tight, it turns freely and spins on the shaft with no appparant wobble.

armorer951 · Dec 15, 2015

In my experience, the rod runout is not due to the rod itself being bent, although I'm sure this can happen during manufacturing, or when the rod is damaged in some way. The ejector rods themselves are actually quite straight most of the time.

The problem is the rod's threaded end, and it's relationship to the extractor body itself. This threaded joint is where the runout occurs, because the two parts don't always "line up" perfectly when they are tightened together.
When you check for runout, and you correct the error by striking the rod, you're simply "lining up" the extractor body and the extractor rod at this threaded joint.

Adding to the problem is the extractor rod collar, which is just another imperfect variable in between the two parts .

This is also why the runout problem can often re-occur when the ext. rod, collar and the extractor are disassembled and then re-assembled (or untightened and retightened)....because it's almost impossible to get the joint reassembled in the same exact configuation each time they are re-tightened.

garbler · Dec 16, 2015

I think Armorer is onto something here and I have to admit the answer isn't quite as easy as some others might think. If I understand correctly Armorer is pointing out is that what shows as run out on the extractor rod may not be a bent rod at all. That it is probably an accumulation of tolerances that frequently originate from damaged threads. I can tell you the fine threads connecting the rod to the extractor are fragile which is why 45-50 inch pounds is max setting it up. Turn it the wrong way or over torque and you can stretch or pull them out of shape and introduce run out that can look like a bent rod. The collar is almost always a sloppy internal fit so no help there. And as ' Collects ' points out the critical area for run out correction is the locking bolt end and as he notes it's a good idea to dress the very end of the rod to reduce drag. I think stoning a light bevel on the rod tip and a bit of polishing to both the rod and locking bolt can reduce DA drag as he notes. I've mentioned this several times before and that is a good DA is the result not of swapping out a spring or two but reducing or improving the contact running surfaces of internal parts ounce by ounce which when done correctly provides a smooth reliable double action pounds less than before.

I use an old Ron Power fixture which I traded him a gun for close to twenty-five years ago. It was a prototype and a bit different than those offered today but it's a reliable tool that uses a snug fitting hollow rod to straighten the extractor rod instead hitting it with lead. At first I thought this fixture was something that impressed customers but would collect dust. Wrong. I was soon surprised how many guns had wobbly extractor rods and scuffed up tips. Over the years I've learned these rods are easy to bend and easier too over bend but the more you bend or torque them the harder it is to get them straight. All and all I think it's a weak design feature of these guns.

H Richard · Dec 16, 2015

I think Armorer951 must be correct. All I know is after I loosened the rod up then re-tightened it just a good snug, the run out is just fine. The cylinder spins like new and the revolver functions as new. Also it shoots great and I was able to eject over 6 cylinderfuls of spent rounds with just my thumb before I had to give it a minor bump with my offhand to eject rounds. It now operates as it was intended to. Why S&W continually cuts chambers so undersized amazes me.

Straighten ejector rod

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