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One shot, two holes!?!?

B

Bradatlas

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Hi guys,

So at the range today, I noticed how I would sometimes shoot one shot and end up with two holes. The ammo was PPU 158gr 357 magnum. I was shooting my S&W model 19 Carry Comp (3” barrel). I’ve noticed some shrapnel/ flakes hitting me in the hand before as well. The gun is relatively new, less than 500 rounds of mixed 38 and 357 through it. Can anyone shed any light one what’s going on, if I should be concerned, and any potential remedies? I’ll attach a couple of pics
 

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Last edited:
armorer951 said:
If the round was copper jacketed, I would guess that the lead core separated from the copper jacketing. Jacketing went one way, the lead projectile went another.
Click to expand...

I would tend to agree with the above note.
PPU is usually pretty decent stuff unless they had a manufacturing issue.
I don't know if they have a US location you could talk to.
 
Arm said:
Ahhh, fun at the range...LOL
Click to expand...
Sometimes there are just really bad shooters there. I've seen the target trolly cable cut twice. I was putting hearing and eye protection on in front of the observation window, and saw a man hand a woman a loaded AR, who promtly emptied it into the ceiling, spraying broken acoustic tile everywhere.
Ya never know.


Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk
 
If you are getting shrapnel hitting your hand(s), the bullet is getting shaved and then falls apart.
(Your bullets are rotating somewhere around 730 rps.)
Have the timing checked and corrected.
Cheapest way would be to send it back to S&W.
 
Last edited:
How about one shot, three holes?

I saw the forensics on a gang shootout. One AK bullet made 3 holes in a gangsta. Bullet hit the SUV door and broke into three pieces. It made a three hole entrance wound, no exit. There was some pseudostippling from particles of the door as well. Decedent crashed out, died as soon as he got to the hospital. It was an interesting fatal wound.
 
I was about 10 or 11 years of age and borrowed a cousin's .22 rifle. As I was sighting it in, I noticed that for every shot, I had 2 holes in the target. Checked the barrel to see if there was some obstruction spitting the round. All clear so I went squirrel hunting with it. Back of my brother's house was a huge oak tree in the woods. Saw a squirrel running down a big limb toward the trunk. Scoped him until I lost him against the trunk in low light. My sister-in-law had just come out to hang the wash and saw me sighting the rifle. Another squirrel came down the same limb and stopped just shy of the trunk. I pulled the trigger and both squirrels fell. One had a heart shot and the other a head shot. SIL was quite impressed and I was smart enough to not say a word. Acted like it was planned all along.
 
If the bullet was over crimped it could lead to the source and jacket to separate especially if copper plated. I R/O often at our outlaw action pistol matches. A new shooter and reloader was shooting. And every round, I could see two projectiles leave the gun and two holes in targets but inches apart just like your example. I inspected her ammo afterwards and saw that they were over crimped.

Check the crimp and also shoot different ammo to be sure it's not the compensator somehow causing this separation!

Smiles,
 
Last edited:
Core and jacket separation will cause two or more holes. An unstable (tumbling) bullet can also put what looks like 1 oversize or 2 holes touching in a target.
 
IMHO, the “spitting” you are experiencing is most likely a function of bad timing in the revolver itself, and the second irregular hole in the target is from the jacket being damaged as it tries to enter the forcing cone off center. I agree with those who counsel returning it to S&W in view of its relative newness... and I would not shoot it any more until whatever problem is there is found and corrected.

Froggie
 
Jackets that separate usually fragment and you get a full caliber sized hole from the core (which also often key holes) and one or more smaller holes from the jacket, depending on how many of the fragments actually impact the target.

What you have in your pictures is a shooter in an adjacent lane hitting your target. When I live in St. Paul and was forced to shoot at indoor ranges, I often find other bullet holes in my 25 yard and 50 yard bullseye targets and at times even on 15 yard practical pistol targets.

If I had a repeat offender in a lane next to me, I'd usually introduce myself, show them the targets and explain how/why that's happening.

There were usually three primary causes:

1) People shooting at targets mounted too low that resulted in bullets skipping off the concrete and then bouncing back up into targets on either side down range.

2) People not centering themselves behind the target in their lane, but instead shooting at the target from one side of their booth or the other at a close range target. That was almost universally the cause of the 15 yard cross fires.

3) A person who was just a really bad shot scattering rounds all over a B-27 sized target 3 to 5 yards away.

Determining what was going on takes about a second of observing the geometry of person and target.

For 1 and 2, I'd explain the issue and how to correct it - the RO's job when the RO wasn't actually doing it very well.

For number 3, if the person was amenable I'd offer some coaching. Women by themselves almost always appreciated the help. Men by themselves also almost always appreciated good advice and tips. Women shooting with a boyfriend were the biggest issue as the idiot boyfriend were usually prevented any help from being delivered. The good news is they'd almost immediately pack up and leave once they were aware their incompetence was on full display.
 
I really wanted it to be someone hitting my target from another lane, but it was just me and another guy there on the other end of the range and he wasn’t messing with me. How would the compensator cause jacket separation?

Also, I’ve done the DIY timing test at home and CB it seems ok. I get the three distinct clicks (with the hammer cocking being the final click) in both single and double action.
 
Last edited:
Do you have a way to check chamber-to-bore alignment? Not a gunsmith, but I think they're called range rods. If one, or more, of your chambers are just slightly out of alignment, that could cause bullet material to get shaved off at the forcing cone when you fire.

Just a thought.
 
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