A NEEDED DISCUSSION ON OIL - NOT WHICH TYPE BUT HOW MUCH!!

[chief38]

With the growing number of people buying guns for the first time and people who owned them prior but actually shooting them often now, I have seen guns at the Range over the past few months that are dripping with lubricants! They have no idea that a round sitting in an oil slathered Chamber for an extended period of time might not be a good idea! Just yesterday I was showing a new shooter how to clean his guns properly and when I took the Sig P320 apart it had enough lubricant in there for 50 guns - not exaggerating either! I tried to explain that so much oil is actually bad and could compromise Cartridge Primers as well as causing light strikes! I was wondering why his hands were full of oil while shooting prior to disassembly - now I know.

Trying to explain to a newbie what the word sparingly or lightly lubricated means is harder than one would think - as they believe more lube is better.

After having a 10 minute lubrication conversation with one of my new shooting friends about a month ago - it apparently went in one ear and out the other. When I looked at his pistol it was so overly lubed once again I couldn't believe it! No wonder gun oil sales are so damned high! HA! I gave him the speech all over again - we'll see if he gets it now.

I would encourage the Gal's & Fellas here who know what they are doing to clue in the Newbies when the opportunity presents itself. I crack up when I see these "Youtube warriors" who can barely disassemble a gun themselves making video's on "how to clean and lube" who really don't know what the hell they are doing themselves! Newbies watch them and take it seriously.

Anyway, I just wanted to call on the Guys here who know the drill to pass along good info when they can so we avoid a whole new crop of gun owners who have no idea what is really proper and correct.

Thank you!

[BSA1]

I see the comment frequently that AR-15’s should be run wet. Some posters go so far to say that unless the shooter is getting oil flicked on their face when shooting the gun doesn’t have enough oil in it.

I use gun grease such as Tetra on what slides such frame and slide rails and oil on what pivots such as the hammer and trigger pins. As you comment too much oil creeps onto parts that should not have oil on it.

[ContinentalOp]

I generally lube sparingly, but I think it's worse to underlube than overlube. I also think there's a difference between lubing a gun that's going to be sitting around a while, like a home defense or a carry gun in a holster, and lubing a gun that you're going to be shooting hundreds of rounds through.

I remember reading about IPSC shooter Ross Seyfried back in the 80s who lubed his 1911s to the point that firing them left oil splatters on his glasses.

And then there's Larry Vickers, not only a top firearms instructor but also a top 1911 pistolsmith, who says overlubing is a myth...

YouTube

[PHS327]

I have to constantly remind myself not to use too much oil when cleaning and lubing my revolvers. The "more is better" idea is an easy trap to fall into. Oil can trap and hold dirt and in some cases turn a lubricant into an abrasive.

[prairieviper]

I usually try and follow the manufacturer's instructions, on that rare occasion when there are specific instructions. Otherwise, I use a trusted source like Brownell's, GrayGuns or Wilson Combat.

[lefty_jake]

I find that for many people, their idea of how to oil machines comes from cars, so their measurement unit is in quarts.

I try to point out that shooting one round is like one revolution for an engine. So if the expected lifespan for a firearm is 50,000 rounds, then the total wear in its lifetime is about equivalent to running an engine at idle for an hour. The wear in firearms just does not require large amounts of lubricants.

For myself, I also keep in mind Jeff Cooper's advice from decades ago, which is that firearms that must be used in desert dust or arctic cold should be degreased, and then tested for function. Assuming they function properly, they should then be carried bone dry. This advice dates back before what we would consider modern firearm lubricants, but it is still an interesting perspective on how to get firearms to run reliably in the worst conditions.

[JohnHL]

I gotta agree with ContinetalOp.

If the gun is to be run hard and hot, lube it heavily.

If however, the gun is to be carried next to clothing, day in and day out, in anticipation of the statistical "3-round" gunfight that is likely never to occur (Thank God), lube it VERY lightly.

John

[chief38]

Let me give my reasons for a light lube vs heavy.

First of all anyone who carry's daily should never subject ammunition to oil! Oil is known to deactivate or affect Primers negatively. Yes I know most modern premium ammo is sealed, however why even chance a misfire? Secondly, heavy lubrication will attract dust, dirt and debris. Oil dripping out if a firearm will also degrade leather over time, ruin clothing and furniture and get anywhere you lay the gun down on a piece of material. Too much oil can also get into the Striker Tunnel and in time actually gum up and retard the works resulting in light Primer strikes.

If the gun in question is used strictly for Sport, Hunting, Competition, Plinking etc. you may miss a prized game animal, mess up your score, etc. however your life doesn't depend on it functioning 100%.

I look at it like this. You are supposedly coating a piece of metal. Anything more than just a light coating is lubricating the lubrication and not the metal. In my OP I was not talking about just an extra few drops guys, I'm talking about some of the guns I have witnessed are literally slathered in oil and you can not hold the gun without getting oil on your hands! that's what prompted me to post this in the first place.

BTW although I treat all my guns the same, I was originally referring to guns that are primarily self defense guns and must work when needed! Most are 9mm or 40 cal semi auto's and when ammo has oil on it - to me it's a sure sign it was improperly lubricated.

PS: Even guns that are pleasure guns and not relied on for SD / HD are not immune from being damaged by over oiling. If too much oil is used and a rifle or shotgun is stored in a safe, the oil can and does drip down and seep into the wooden stock. Oil will soften and degrade the wood over time.

PPS: What the Youtube Weekend Warriors publish in video's means little to me. I go by 56 years of personal experience with firearms and plain old common sense. I am also a very mechanical type person and use lubrication on many other pieces of tools, machinery & equipment - guns are not all that different. Many of the Youtube guys have little practical and long term experience - important to understand for people who take their advise and direction.

[mscampbell2734]

Just like almost everything firearms related the answer is "it depends".

It depends on is this a carry or competition gun? What general type of gun is this, 1911s and ARs need way way more lube then say a Block or bolt gun.

Where are you located? South Florida and Oregon carry guns are going to be subjected to much higher humidity and need some sort of corrorision resistant lube, just the opposite of say New Mexico.

Trying to say less or more or grease or oil without taking the entire context into consideration GENERALLY is not going to provide the best answer.

[cmj8591]

If you can see it, it's too much.

[Peak53]

I shoot a lot more revolvers than semis. That said I find that a very conservative amount of lube is adequate. Any more tends to lead to collection of powder debris leading to binding and other bad stuff. A drop here and a drop there after thorough cleaning seems to be enough. I may go a bit more on semi slides, but not much. This is my experience and not based on internet knowledge. Shoot, inspect, clean, inspect.

[pistolpete10]

From my experience a little dab'll do you even on the semis. If you pour it on it will just get all over everything whether it needs it or not. Glocks recommendations are pretty close to correct for any auto. A few drops only where it's needed.

[Sevens]

I agree with the group that says it absolutely depends and I think it depends a lot on specific guns also. It is either in the Ed Brown owner’s manual or in the Les Baer manual where he states quite literally that buyers want to know HOW MUCH to lube this 1911 pistol and his answer is that when some of it flings on to your hand and arm during live fire, you have enough.

I simply must find this, I’m 100% certain that I’ve read this and I am also certain that it was either Les Baer or Ed Brown that wrote it.

This does not make it the final word of course, but it’s my opinion that either one of these guy’s opinions should be able to carry a little weight on the subject.

[llowry61]

I used to use a lot more oil and grease than I do today. I know from duck hunting in extremely cold weather that using too much grease will at the very least slow down an auto loader and can bring it to a halt altogether. I got in the over-oiling habit to guard against rust, but later learned it was more important to take the gun completely apart, allow it to come up to room temp, then wipe down and clean. I am now in the little dab will do ya camp. I have a couple of older autos that have streaks in the wood pistol grips where the oil ran down and seeped into the wood after being placed in the gun cabinet.

[armorer951]

Sounds a bit simplistic, but one of the problems is how to dispense the proper (small) amount of your favorite lubricant exactly where you want it.

There are some great "needle oiler" options out there, including ones sold on Ebay and Brownells. These small, refillable bottles not only prevent waste, they allow you to control where, and how much.....or should I say how little.

Also, lubricants and cleaners can be transferred from your larger containers with a small syringe if necessary.

Some companies, like Lucas, and others, actually sell their products in these small needle oiler bottles. Great idea for preventing a mess, controlling waste, and placing oil and other liquids in just the right spot.





BROWNELLS NEEDLE OILER BOTTLES | Brownells

[Univibe]

One man's experience:

1. I never, never used grease on a firearm with one exception as detailed below. I bought a used M&P40 recently. Previous owner had used lots of white lithium grease in it. The grease was mostly an abrasive paste of gunshot residue mixed with the grease. Yuck.

2. Any gun used for self-defense gets cleaned meticulously after it is shot. Guns used for range fun get cleaned sporadically, or in the case of the ARs, not at all.

3. Shooters fuss about oil like cork-sniffers argue the real or imagined virtues of wines. Real oil should be used. Rem Oil burns off the AR in a few dozen rounds and leaves you high and dry. I wouldn't let Frog Lube touch any firearm of mine; vegetable oil goes rancid in the kitchen; why wouldn't it in your rifle? CLP is good stuff, and so is most other "gun oils" and synthetic motor oil such as Mobil-1.


4. It is impossible to overlube an AR, as long as you don't get any oil in the chamber or on the bolt face. I use generous amounts of Breakfree LP on the lugs, cam pin, bolt carrier rails, and piston rings. Light Breakfree CLP everywhere else oil is needed. If you keep a spec-grade AR wet, you don't have to clean it at all unless external dirt gets in. My main range-toy AR hasn't been cleaned in 2 years and many thousands of rounds. But if you told me you were dropping me into the L.A. Riots in one minute, and I had to grab that rifle, I wouldn't lack confidence in the slightest.

5. I carried a compact 1911 for 20 years. Modern 1911s feature tight slide to frame fit, and tight barrel bushings. 1911s need lots of oil for reliability. I did use Pro-Gold grease, applied sparingly with a toothpick, to those areas. This was to keep oil from running onto my dress clothes. If I intended to shoot that gun, I'd wipe out the grease, and oil it with CLP.

6. When I went plastic, I went with generous Breakfree CLP on the four frame contact points, the locking lug, and the trigger bar to sear contact point. Not running out of the gun, but a generous drop of CLP on each of those points.

7. 22LR guns are touchy. Depends on the gun. I run my Ruger 10-22 benchrest rifle bone dry. The actions on those guns somehow retain dirty .22 residue if you oil them. Dry action means the dust blows right out. I clean it once in a blue moon and it runs fine. On the other hand, the Smith 15-22 needs to be cleaned and well-lubricated every time I shoot it, or it'll have trouble.

8. I carry a full size 9mm OWB under suit coat or winter jacket. Every six weeks or so, I field strip it, wipe out any environmental dirt, and re-lube. I carry P365 in the pocket. It collects more lint and dirt, and oil dries out pretty quickly. Every 3 or 4 weeks I do the same treatment.

9. Home defense pistol caliber carbines get generously lubricated with CLP and put in a closet ready to go. If I don't shoot them, about once a year they get field stripped, wiped out and re-lubed.

10. Car defense carbines need more frequent attention.

11. I think brand new guns need to be very generously lubricated. My new Glock 19 failed to go into battery about the 30th round I fired. No excuses; I was shooting FMJ. I shot it dry, straight out of the box. I suspected that was the cause. I stripped it and applied generous CLP. Problema solved.

[BSA1]

armorer951 has great advice.

I brought a plastic ketchup type bottle and several small needle type plastic bottles from a hobby shop. I use Mobile One Synthetic Oil when I change the motor oil in my trucks and drain the last few drops from the container into the plastic ketchup type bottle. I then use it to fill the small bottles. In addition to being easier to control how and where I oil the oil is also “free” as the primary use is for the engine. One of my trucks has close to 400,000 miles on the engine (the odometer broke at 320,000 and has been running backwards ever since) using Mobile One exclusively so I figure it is a excellent oil for use on pins and parts that pivot.

As oil will run off over time I use Tetra Gun Grease on the frame and slide rails to keep them lubricated.

[BSA1]

Originally Posted by Univibe

One man's experience:

9. Home defense pistol caliber carbines get generously lubricated with CLP and put in a closet ready to go. If I don't shoot them, about once a year they get field stripped, wiped out and re-lubed.

11. I think brand new guns need to be very generously lubricated. My new Glock 19 failed to go into battery about the 30th round I fired. No excuses; I was shooting FMJ. I shot it dry, straight out of the box. I suspected that was the cause. I stripped it and applied generous CLP. Problema solved.

I disagree with heavily oiling a home defense long gun as oil will run off over time due to gravity. I use less oil and check my long guns every few months.

Ditto on heavily oiling new and new to me the first time I shoot them. I clean the gun before use, then generously oil it and shoot it. Afterwards I clean it again. My reason for heavily oiling the gun is too help trap any grit, machine shavings and contamination that was left in the gun when it was made. After the first shooting session I don’t oil my guns as much.

[Univibe]

Yeah, I ordinarily nuke a new gun down to bare metal. I was just lazy with the G19.

I carry a small needle bottle of CLP in my range box. So many people at the range have "trouble" with their AR or pistol. I strip it, oil it, and they think I'm a wizard for getting it running again.

[bulletslap]

My Dear Old Dad taught me the Brown Shoe Army method of a few drops of oil on a special use shaving brush applied to the internals of the weapon and then wiping the exterior of the weapon with a soft rag.


It may not be the best method but it works !

[WR Moore]

I didn't watch the Vickers video all the way through, think the video is a self promoting stunt that ill serves the subject.

We caught guys "lubing" AR BCGs by dunking them in oil cans. Neither appropriate nor needed.

After the CLP products came out, it became common for competitors to simply frequently lube their guns, sometimes instead of cleaning them. End of the year, many would end up at a gunsmiths because "the trigger job needs redone". What was really happening was that combustion residues were combining with the lube to form a grit filled sludge that interfered with part movement. Detail strips and thorough cleaning almost always solved the problem. When I told customers this, many said a detail strip was too much trouble and easier to pay me to do it.

I personally prefer a dry film lube for many moving parts. I admit to using a little dab of high temperature moly chassis grease in high load areas like the cam pin/groove in the AR.