Can I use carb or brake cleaner to blast my 642?(read at post 12 broken hammer stud

yanici · #1 05-01-2009, 04:17 PM

I dry fired the heck out of my new 642. The trigger wouldn't even return all the way when new so I put in a few drops of oil through the hand hole and dry fired a lot. I repeated this treatment 'til the trigger was smoothed out. The thing is that I'm getting black oil seeping out of the crack in the side plate. Mostly it seeps near the top.

I thought I might take off the side plate and blast it out with carb or brake cleaner and then relube it.

Will the carb or brake cleaner ruin the clearcote finish on the gun?

See post 12 below. I later found a broken hammer stud!

HEADKNOCKER · #2 05-01-2009, 05:05 PM

The carb & brake cleaner will ruin the spray on finish the 642-1 & 642-2s has..
I've seen were gunscrubber & the likes completely ruined these finishes..
Not sure what I would use without opening the sideplate..
Good Luck yanici
Gary/Hk

yanici · #3 05-01-2009, 05:17 PM

I am opening the side plate.

Maybe blast it with canned CLP??

I'm sorta leery about complete disassembly to clean it although I think I could do it.

Bruce51 · #4 05-01-2009, 05:25 PM

I would use a bit of kerosene and blow it out with an air knozzle. Mineral spirits would work as well. Both are very mild solvents that should not affect a clearcoat. Bruce

Drail · #5 05-01-2009, 09:29 PM

Brake cleaner is fine. Carb cleaner is way overkill, you don't need to dissolve varnish and lacquer. Be sure to remove the grips. Blow with compressed air until dry. Be aware that if you flush out and strip all of the oil in the action you'll need to replace it with new. I like CLP or ATF fluid. Apply a drop with a pin or toothpick on the hammer and trigger pins, the rebound slide and the hammer sear interfaces. I think you have some debris in there if your trigger didn't want to return.

tomcatt51 · #6 05-02-2009, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Drail:
Brake cleaner is fine. Carb cleaner is way overkill, you don't need to dissolve varnish and lacquer. Be sure to remove the grips. Blow with compressed air until dry. Be aware that if you flush out and strip all of the oil in the action you'll need to replace it with new. I like CLP or ATF fluid. Apply a drop with a pin or toothpick on the hammer and trigger pins, the rebound slide and the hammer sear interfaces. I think you have some debris in there if your trigger didn't want to return.

I was wondering about the brake cleaner / carb cleaner response too. Brake cleaner / electric contact cleaner are degreasers that leave no residue and are pretty benign. I've never had problems with them attacking finishes. Carb cleaner is a different animal. No way I'd use carb cleaner,

duckloads · #7 05-02-2009, 11:24 AM

Quote:

No way I'd use carb cleaner,

+1

I use brake cleaner all the time on blued, S/S and nickle guns. In fact my local NAPA had it on sale for $2 per can, so I bought a case.

bountyhunter · #8 05-02-2009, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tomcatt51:

Quote:

Originally posted by Drail:
Brake cleaner is fine. Carb cleaner is way overkill, you don't need to dissolve varnish and lacquer. Be sure to remove the grips. Blow with compressed air until dry. Be aware that if you flush out and strip all of the oil in the action you'll need to replace it with new. I like CLP or ATF fluid. Apply a drop with a pin or toothpick on the hammer and trigger pins, the rebound slide and the hammer sear interfaces. I think you have some debris in there if your trigger didn't want to return.

I was wondering about the brake cleaner / carb cleaner response too. Brake cleaner / electric contact cleaner are degreasers that leave no residue and are pretty benign. I've never had problems with them attacking finishes. Carb cleaner is a different animal. No way I'd use carb cleaner,

Both brake cleaner and carb cleaner are mostly xylene, acetone with some other friends. They also can have methyl alcohol, butane, heptane or other assorted solvents.

Acetone and xylene will destroy a clearcoat, so brake cleaner, carb cleaner, gunscrubber et al are no good.

I believe mineral spirits is OK.

bountyhunter · #9 05-02-2009, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by duckloads:

Quote:

No way I'd use carb cleaner,

+1

I use brake cleaner all the time on blued, S/S and nickle guns. In fact my local NAPA had it on sale for $2 per can, so I bought a case.

Me too, but it will tear clearcoats to shreds.

tomcatt51 · #10 05-02-2009, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bountyhunter:
Both brake cleaner and carb cleaner are mostly xylene, acetone with some other friends. They also can have methyl alcohol, butane, heptane or other assorted solvents.

From the MSDS for CRC Brakleen, Brake cleaner:
Product Name: Brakleen® Brake Parts Cleaner (aerosol)
Product Number (s): 05089,05089-6, 05089T, 85089, 85089AZ
Page 2 of 6
Section 3: Composition/Information on Ingredients
COMPONENT CAS NUMBER % by Wt.
Tetrachloroethylene (PERC) 127-18-4 > 95
Carbon Dioxide 124-38-9 < 5
http://www.crcindustries.com/faxdocs/msds/5089.pdf

Valvoline Carb and Choke Cleaner
MSDS Number: R0328421
3. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
Components CAS-No. Concentration
ACETONE 67-64-1 >=40-<50%
METHANOL 67-56-1 >=20-<30%
XYLENE 1330-20-7 >=15-<20%
CARBON DIOXIDE 124-38-9 >=5-<10%
ETHYL BENZENE 100-41-4 >=1.5-<5%

Brake cleaners and carb cleaners ARE NOT the same and shouldn't be "lumped together".

Pisgah · #11 05-02-2009, 07:21 PM

I have absolutely no experience of clear-coated revolvers, so I have no way of knowing if this will do harm or not. But it is something to think about.

The very best, most thorough, fastest, and most efficient way I have found to clean out a S&W DA revolver is to remove the grips, then remove the side plate, and immerse the works in a pot of boiling water and a good slug of Dawn diswashing liquid. Let'er boil as long as she needs -- a truly nasty, encrusted gun may take 35-40 minutes, a merely neglected gun maybe 10 minutes.

Before you're ready to take it out of the bath, boil another pot of water. You can move the revolver from the sudsy water to the clear to rinse it. I usually put the gun in the kitchen sink in a plastic collander and pour the clear water over and through it. The heat will dry the gun within seconds after the rinse, so be ready with the CLP or similar and give everything a thorough dousing while it's still piping hot.

I've done this procedure on at least 50 guns with no problems and complete success. I like the fact that there are no really noxious chemicals involved.

yanici · #12 05-02-2009, 08:09 PM

Well, I opened the sideplate to clean it. Surprise!! I found out why the trigger was so rough when new. The dang hammer stud/pin that the hammer pivots on was sheared off flush with the frame. I gotta send her back for repair.

HEADKNOCKER · #13 05-02-2009, 08:17 PM

Glad you found the problem, Sorry it wasn't an easy fix..
There was an old post that showed pics of an Airweight that had been sprayed with carb cleaner & it looked like it had been dipped in acid & the bare aluminum was oxidizing & looked absolutely terrible = Ruined..
It too have used acetone on blued finishes & gunscrubber & brake parts cleaner on stainless guns with great results but wouldn't use anything harsh on the sprayed on finishes..
Birchwood Casey's Bore Scrubber does a good job on my 342Ti & hasn't damaged the fragile finish
Let us know when the 642-? returns from S&W
Gary/Hk

tomcatt51 · #14 05-02-2009, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yanici:
Well, I opened the sideplate to clean it. Surprise!! I found out why the trigger was so rough when new. The dang hammer stud/pin that the hammer pivots on was sheared off flush with the frame. I gotta send her back for repair.

Ouch.

bountyhunter · #15 05-03-2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tomcatt51:

Quote:

Originally posted by bountyhunter:
Both brake cleaner and carb cleaner are mostly xylene, acetone with some other friends. They also can have methyl alcohol, butane, heptane or other assorted solvents.

From the MSDS for CRC Brakleen, Brake cleaner:
Product Name: Brakleen® Brake Parts Cleaner (aerosol)
Product Number (s): 05089,05089-6, 05089T, 85089, 85089AZ
Page 2 of 6
Section 3: Composition/Information on Ingredients
COMPONENT CAS NUMBER % by Wt.
Tetrachloroethylene (PERC) 127-18-4 > 95
Carbon Dioxide 124-38-9 < 5
http://www.crcindustries.com/faxdocs/msds/5089.pdf

Valvoline Carb and Choke Cleaner
MSDS Number: R0328421
3. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
Components CAS-No. Concentration
ACETONE 67-64-1 >=40-<50%
METHANOL 67-56-1 >=20-<30%
XYLENE 1330-20-7 >=15-<20%
CARBON DIOXIDE 124-38-9 >=5-<10%
ETHYL BENZENE 100-41-4 >=1.5-<5%

Brake cleaners and carb cleaners ARE NOT the same and shouldn't be "lumped together".

OK. Here is the most current (2006) MSDS sheet on CRC Brakleen I saw on the net:

http://www.crcind.com.au/catal...20ncr/$FILE/MSDS.pdf

FROM THE LABELS ON THE CANS:

CRC Brakleen Brake Parts Cleaner:

Methanol, toluene, Acetone, Heptane, Xylene, Carbon Dioxide

Pyrol Brake Parts Cleaner:

Xylene, Methyl Alcohol, Acetone, Heptane, Carbon Dioxide

Pyrol Carb + Choke Cleaner

Xylene, methyl alcohol, Acetone, carbon dioxide

LIKE I SAID: brake cleaners contain acetone and that stuff will strip paint and eat clearcoat. It will also attack most plastics. If you don't believe me, try some on clearcoat and see for yourself.

BTW: the stuff you allude to as being in CRC brake cleaner (tetracloroethylene) is dry cleaning fluid which is also pretty nasty stuff. I haven't seen it in any brake cleaner I have bought, but it's possible. It certainly is not in the six cans of CRC brake cleaner I have because their labels show exactly what's in them (see above). I certainly would not let it touch any painted surface.

bountyhunter · #16 05-03-2009, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yanici:
I dry fired the heck out of my new 642. The trigger wouldn't even return all the way when new so I put in a few drops of oil through the hand hole and dry fired a lot. I repeated this treatment 'til the trigger was smoothed out. The thing is that I'm getting black oil seeping out of the crack in the side plate. Mostly it seeps near the top.

I thought I might take off the side plate and blast it out with carb or brake cleaner and then relube it.

Will the carb or brake cleaner ruin the clearcote finish on the gun?

If you want a good gun cleaner that is safe for all plastics and finishes, try MPro 7 spray liquid. It's pretty good stuff and is chemically inert. It also has no odor.

bountyhunter · #17 05-03-2009, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yanici:
Well, I opened the sideplate to clean it. Surprise!! I found out why the trigger was so rough when new. The dang hammer stud/pin that the hammer pivots on was sheared off flush with the frame. I gotta send her back for repair.

Wow. haven't seen that before. Seriously bad luck to get one that does that.

tomcatt51 · #18 05-03-2009, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bountyhunter:
OK. Here is the most current (2006) MSDS sheet on CRC Brakleen I saw on the net:

/(MSDS)/BRAKLEEN%20NON%20CHLORINATED%205084%20ncr/$FILE/MSDS.pdf]http://www.crcind.com.au/catal...20ncr/$FILE/MSDS.pdf[/url]

Australian MSDS? Interesting.

CRC Brakleen: If you buy the non-chlorinated stuff, GREEN can, which you apparently do, you pretty much get "carb cleaner" in a can marked "brake cleaner". The chlorinated brake cleaner, RED can, is a different animal and doesn't have all the rude solvents.

bountyhunter · #19 05-04-2009, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tomcatt51:

Quote:

Originally posted by bountyhunter:
OK. Here is the most current (2006) MSDS sheet on CRC Brakleen I saw on the net:

/(MSDS)/BRAKLEEN%20NON%20CHLORINATED%205084%20ncr/$FILE/MSDS.pdf]http://www.crcind.com.au/catal...20ncr/$FILE/MSDS.pdf[/url]

Australian MSDS? Interesting.

CRC Brakleen: If you buy the non-chlorinated stuff, GREEN can, which you apparently do, you pretty much get "carb cleaner" in a can marked "brake cleaner". The chlorinated brake cleaner, RED can, is a different animal and doesn't have all the rude solvents.

You think that dry cleaning fluid is not a nasty solvent? You've got to be kidding.

Why don't you try this experiment:

Take a can out and spray it onto the hood of your car. Wait five minutes and wipe off whatever mess is there.

get back to us with what you find.

BTW, I am not in Australia I am in california and like I said: I read the can labels for the contents which matches what is on the MSDS sheet.

Brake cleaner, Gunscrubber, carb cleaner, dry cleaning fluid, whatever: it's not safe for clearcoat finish.

Try some on your car's clearcoat and tell us what you find out.

bountyhunter · #20 05-04-2009, 02:22 PM

If anybody thinks tetrachloroethylene isn't nasty, read up on it:

http://www.scorecard.org/chemi...ubstance_id=127-18-4

Hazard Rankings

More hazardous than most chemicals in 8 out of 14 ranking systems.
Ranked as one of the most hazardous compounds (worst 10%) to ecosystems and human health.

tomcatt51 · #21 05-04-2009, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bountyhunter:
www.scorecard.org/chemical-profiles/

Your source: scorecard.org
"Opening the door to successful communications campaigns for the environmental movement"
I think I understand now.

yanici · #22 05-04-2009, 04:32 PM

I got an email saying that Birchwood & Casey Gunscrubber for synthetics will fit the bill for an action cleaner. Won't harm the aluminum clear coat.

bountyhunter · #23 05-04-2009, 10:32 PM

On the off chance anybody is inclined to take brake cleaner to their clearcoat gun, I wasted enough of my life to look into it and find some data from people who did:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=134993

Quote:

A friend used brake cleaner / Gun Scrubber on his new 642 and it stripped off part of the finish on the barrel. I'd be careful. I don't use anything more potent than Hoppe's on my guns.

Quote:

I have read several threads about this over on the smith and wesson forum and in other places. On the scandium-framed revolvers, problems with peeling of the clear coat have been reported with using Gun Scrubber, Hoppes # 9, Simple Green, sprays containing acetone, solvents containing ammonia, and sometimes just from holster wear.

Quote:

Far and away the most complaints come from using Gun Scrubber or carb cleaner. According to the MSDS, the active ingredient in Gun Scrubber is trichloroethylene. Tetra Action Blaster also contains trichloroethylene and CRC Brakleen (non-chlorinated) contains acetone, as do most carb cleaners.

Quote:

I use MPro7 cleaner plus Shooter's Choice FP-10 lube on my handguns, including a scandium S&W 340PD. No problems here.

bountyhunter · #24 05-04-2009, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tomcatt51:

Quote:

Originally posted by bountyhunter:
www.scorecard.org/chemical-profiles/

Your source: scorecard.org

MY SOURCE: THE LABEL OF THE CANS.

Look, you are the one in this thread telling people to use brake cleaner on clearcoat guns which will RUIN THEM. Then you say it's only some kind of brake cleaners, not others that will be OK.

I am saying clearly that you should take some of what you claim is "safe" cleaner which contains dry cleaning chemicals and spray it onto the clearcoat on your car or a gun and then see what it does.

You just keep nitpicking at sources but I am telling you the can I listed the contents of has CRC Brake Cleaner on the label and the contents I listed are inside that can. And they will destroy clearcoats as will the other kind you say you have. If you don't believe me, TRY IT AND SEE.

And pray nobody read this thread and ruined their gun with that stuff.

You going to actually back up what you post and wreck some paint or just admit that it can't be used on clearcoats?

Andy Griffith · #25 05-05-2009, 11:14 AM

Um...

Why not just use hot soap and water with a toothbrush?

RightWinger · #26 05-05-2009, 11:57 PM

FWIW carb cleaner and brake cleaner will both ruin a finish, I have a 342 that I used brake cleaner on and it is now completely bare aluminum, I had a 642 that I used carb cleaner on and it had the same results. Honestly I don't really care because they were both carry guns anyway, but if you want to keep the finish nice, stay away from either of those....

mark5pt56 · #27 05-09-2009, 03:15 PM

Not SW revolver related, but subject related. Years ago, I had an Arsenal AK (SLR-95) I was shooting it one day and decided to do the easy way of cleaning. So, I grab a can of Gunscruber and start hosing it down. I have this puzzled look on my face as I say "what's that purple s%^& running off my gun"? I quickly realized it was the paint being dissolved. Well, the black finish was dull and I learned a lesson.

Mark

bountyhunter · #28 05-09-2009, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RightWinger:
FWIW carb cleaner and brake cleaner will both ruin a finish, I have a 342 that I used brake cleaner on and it is now completely bare aluminum, I had a 642 that I used carb cleaner on and it had the same results. Honestly I don't really care because they were both carry guns anyway, but if you want to keep the finish nice, stay away from either of those....

For the record, clearcoat on aluminum is not purely cosmetic. Aluminum will corrode like a mutha if it is left open and bare. That's why most Al is anodized or coated with some kind of protective finish.

RightWinger · #29 05-11-2009, 07:53 AM

Is there anything I can coat the bare aluminum with myself to protect it? I has been like that for several years and I have yet to see it corrode, but maybe just the day to day carying it keeps the corrosion rubbed off.....

tomcatt51 · #30 05-11-2009, 10:48 AM

Use and the oil from your hands is enough. It will form a "skin" of aluminum oxide (already has if you did this a while ago) and be just fine unless you leave it laying outdoors in the elements for a couple years.