I have a third model safety hammerless and it’s got a couple of issues, first, the grip safety is frozen in the off position, second, that after one cycle the hammer disengages from the sear. For that first round everything seems to work perfectly, but the trigger does not reset, the end of the sear does not fall back in to the notch in the hammer, it stops a couple of millimeters above it, however if I tap on the back of the hammer with a drift punch it nocks it back in to alignment with the sear and it is back in the notch for one more cycle if the trigger, but then the issue repeats. I think the safety is just frozen on rust/gunk, but I’m at a loss to explain the trigger reset issue.

Any ideas what is causing this, or how to fix it?

Also, where can I get detailed instructions on doing a complete detail strip and reassembly?

A picture would help some of us. As a general thing, taking the grips off and soaking it in kerosene for a few days might help even before you try to take it apart.

Here you go:

IMG_0645.jpg

That first picture is when the alignment is correct and the sear is in the notch.

IMG_0646.jpg

That’s what happens after it cycles, the sear is no longer in the hammer notch.

From where I sit, the obvious problem seems to be rust. Your revolver needs to be detailed stripped, have all the rust removed, then lightly lubricated and reassembled. THEN and only then you will be able to determine exactly what the problem is. Your grip safety should probably then work and don't be surprised if the rest of the revolver works as designed also.

If this is something you are not capable and or willing to do with knowledge & experience, bring it to a local qualified Gun Smith. If you are hellbent on doing this yourself and truly want to learn, get the J. Kuhnhauser S&W shop manual and at least you will have a much better understanding of how to do it. You will need mechanical ability and a sense of mechanical mechanisms and how the parts relate to each other in revolvers. You will also need rust removal chemicals, a wire wheel and possibly a new spring. That revolver is pretty rusted!

The hammer is not rebounding from the frame. It is most likely that the parts are not able to move freely to get where they need to go. Soaking in kerosene as mentioned above would be the best first step. Then working the action while it's still wet, soaking and working it a few cycles might free things up enough to work. It still needs a detailed cleaning and oiling after that, no matter what.

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protocalldesign.com

Which spring?

Will rust remover damage the remaining nickel plating? Any particular rust remover?

Also, I know rust remover will eat bluing and I'd kind of like to preserve what is left of it on the blued parts because I’m not sure yet if I want to do a refinish and that would kind of force my hand. Is it just the trigger, trigger guard, and takedown button that are blued?

How do I free stuck pins? (I can’t get any of them to budge)

Is there any place I can find tgat has detail strip and reassembly instructions without having to buy an expensive book?

Kerosene is oil and won't hurt your finish. You could look on-line for some videos on ***/disassembly, but the book would probably be your best bet.

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Todd

Cool, I’ll give Kerosene a shot, how many days do you think it should soak? And is something supposed to be where the 3 * are?

I use the old standby of a 50/50 mix of automatic transmission fluid and acetone in a new paint can. Plop the gun in (no grips) and let it sit for a few days. I’ve used it with both nickel and blue guns with no damage to the finish.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

That's the best penetrating oil there is. If you do that, be sure to use the older type of transmission fluid. The newer synthetic ones won't mix with the acetone.

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protocalldesign.com

I was just abbreviating the word assembly, with the first 3 letters of the word, but the auto censor caught it.

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Todd

Ah, unfortunately I came up empty on videos.

I just sent it through the ultra sonic cleaner with distilled water and dish soap for a full hour, with heat, a horrendous slimy rusty black mess was dislodged from the revolver, after wiping it all off I put it in K1 Kerosene to soak, which is where it will stay for a few days at least, after it comes out I will see if the pins are a bit more cooperative and if the grip safety unsticks itself.

S&W pins have rounded ends and are straight (not tapered). The pins can be driven from either side. Because the ends of the pins are rounded, one should use a short, "Starter" punch with a cupped end (Brownell's). After starting (moving) the pin then change to a regular, longer, cupped punch to drive the pin out (again, Brownell's).

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Mike Maher #283

Mr. 9245, try this old trick. Drive the couple of pins out only half way and soak. Then drive the other way and soak. Takes some time but what is the hurry. That way everything stays in place.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

For the moment the pins don’t budge at all, not even a fraction of a millimeter. The end of my punch is actually starting to mushroom a bit from wailing on it.

I took it out of the kerosene soak and discovered a few things, first that it is apparently possible to rust while submerged in pure kerosene as there was a fee spots of light surface rust that wiped off with a towel, second that the pins are STILL stuck, third that the grip safety loosened up some, and is apparently broken, I think the split spring is missing (?), in addition to that the hinge screw also snapped.

Any suggestions for freeing the stuck pins?

Also, going by these pictures, is it the grip safety that broke, the latch, split spring, or both?

IMG_0730.jpg

IMG_0731.jpg

IMG_0732.jpg

Kroil works well forvl freeing up frozen screws and pins...

Any thoughts on the grip safety?

I was still having issues tracking down parts but just got lucky and found a nearly complete parts kit for $40, it will get me my missing nut, plus the grip safety parts if needed. Plus an extra short barrel and assorted spare parts, cool

Still have to figure out how to knock those pins out though.

A link to the parts kit I won:

S&W Safety Hammerless Revolver .38 S&W Gun Repair Parts Lot #1L | eBay

It appears that you now have all the parts to revive your revolver. Your grip safety lever does appear broken. The parts kit included the hinge pin and screw. Also, you may have lucked out and have a good split-spring in the kit. The split-spring is the Achilles heel of the Safety Hammerless revolvers. Good show!

Soak those pesky pins longer. They've been there for 90+ years. What's another month? The cupped starter punches from Brownell's will not mushroom the pins. Flat face punches will mushroom the pins making them more difficult to remove. I recommend supporting the frame to keep it from moving when striking the pins. A big one-pound hammer and a healthy whack will help. The key is to support the frame so as it does not move and strike the punch perpendicular to the pin. My favorite support is a 25# bag of 7 1/2 lead shot.

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Mike Maher #283

The brownells punches are very expensive and a full set will be more than I paid for the entire revolver! What specific sizes are used in this one? That way I can just order what I need.

Also, I found a set of generic cupped punches, 1/16”, 5/64”, 3/32”, and 1/8”, would those work? It’s only like $10 for the while set.

I was able to cheat by using a nail set and a nail and got the pins out, however now the firing pin bushing appears to be stuck. Am I missing something? How else do I remove it? I thought I just had to push out that pin and it would just drop out, but it did not budge, how else do I get it out? I also removed the other pin above that and still nothing.

No one? How do I get that bushing out?

OK, I managed to figure it out, I got ahold of a Kindle copy of “Antique Firearms Assembly/Disassembly” by David Chicoine and finally got detail strip instructions (although it is not illustrated and doesn’t go in to as much detail as I would like) and was able to learn that the bushing does not just fall free it has to be pushed out from the rear, I had to pull the mainspring, move the hammer back, and use a sacrificial 3/32 inch punch to pound on the back of the firing pin to push the bushing out since there is no actual way to get to the bushing itself from the rear as it is in a blind hole. I say sacrificial punch because there was just no way to get a punch in there without bending the heck out of it so I just used a pot metal “Pittsburg” brand punch from Harbor Freight and just pounded until it was free, the punch got bent to **** but the job got done.

IMG_1059.jpg

You can see how badly it bent my punch. For contrast I have the new replacement spring next to the old broken spring to emphasize just how badly damaged it was.

I replaced the firing pin spring, and the firing pin now works as it should, however the trigger still does not reset, suggestions?

Fixed it. It was a bad mainspring. It now functions exactly as intended. Next up will be putting the pins back and taking the grip safety apart to find out what is wrong with it. I suspect a bad split spring and/or corrosion, I have also discovered that the grip safety itself has a tab broken off of it and will have to be replaced. I have a temporary replacement on hand but that one was replated by a moron who polished off most of the knurling on it, it looks awful but should function well enough until I can get a non over polished replacement.