HomeSmith Trainwreck #3 "Short & Sweet"

Protocall_Design · #51 01-21-2024, 11:33 AM

Kudos on getting that fixture. Every serious revo fixer needs one of those. There is a block with a screw in it directly below your indicator that will hold a small lug back indicator. Or you can just put the mag base on the fixture base.

A runout of .001 is really good. I'm happy with .003 or .004 total indicator reading (TIR). I've only gotten less than .001 a few times in many years.

Shotguncoach · #52 02-03-2024, 02:53 AM

She Who Must Be Obeyed is out of the house at a ladies event, so we all know what that means:

GUNS IN THE KITCHEN!!

Instead of just sitting around eating frozen pizza and watching shoot-em-up movies, I decided to learn something. Short & Sweet has always been rather homely and needs a refinish. I have a bunch of stuff to do rust bluing but I had no clue what to expect. Would that lovely soft Grobet carding wheel really just polish the blue? Is it better to secure the work and move the wheel, or vice versa? Do I really have to take all the old blue off? How important is the surface prep? Am I going to have to create a steam cabinet? Tonight seemed like a good time to find out.

I began by once again moving all the insides to the outside and used non-chlorinated brake cleaner to degrease the frame, yoke, cylinder, ejector star, and ejector rod. Everything went into my brand new pot filled with boiling distilled water while I did chores around the house.

Shotguncoach · #53 02-03-2024, 03:16 AM

This first boil was really just to make sure the everything was truly degreased and to convert any remaining rust scale. I also learned that if you use standard kitchen tongs to lift the frame out of the boiling water the tongs will funnel the boiling water directly into the sleeve of your sweatshirt.

After the bits and pieces had cooled off, I mounted the wheel in my drillpress, put the sideplate back on (thank you Mr. Novak!) and went to work. The drill press method turned out to be less than optimal. It's very easy to push the work too far into the wheel and have the wheel attempt to throw everything to the left. The plus side is that the wheel did a great job cleaning the dirt out from under my fingernails.

This first degrease and card really showed just how much of the original bluing was gone. I decided not to break open my bottle of Brownells bluing remover and just move forward with what was left of the original finish in place. My theory was that the original blue would protect the metal and the rusting solution would attack the bare surfaces first, essentially filling in the blanks. I figured it would be worth a try. It's not like I could make it look worse.

The yoke seemed mostly ok so I concentrated on just the cylinder, frame, and sideplate. The pieces were hung from my workbench cabinet handles with wire and then wiped lightly with Brownells rusting solution, using a cotton patch as an applicator.

The first application was left on for 24 minutes because that's how long it took to cook my frozen pizza. A did a second, slightly heavier application of rusting solution with a new cotton patch and went to eat and watch a movie. (And yes, I did remember to take the screws out of the sideplate before applying the rusting solution so that they would not rust in place)

An hour later I checked on the pieces and found....something. I wouldn't call it rust. It was more like a greyish green crust forming on the metal. Oh well. Into the pot we go.

This time the boil was for 90 minutes. I was expecting the rust/green stuff to convert into black oxide, but it didn't. I was starting to rethink my statement of "I can't make it any worse".

Shotguncoach · #54 02-03-2024, 03:35 AM

For my second carding experience, I changed the setup so that the work was held in a vise and the carding wheel was in a corded variable speed electric drill motor. This worked much better and gave excellent control. Eventually I'll get a dual shaft buffer and mount the wheel there but for now this method seems fine.

I needn't have worried about the green crusty stuff: the wheel took it of perfectly. Not sure if I should be breathing the dust from that but it's a little late to worry about that now. I'll wear a dust mask next time.

I know that I'm going to have to do this 3 or 4 more times, but I was pleasantly surprised at how well this first attempt worked out. There are still obvious light spots and some filled in better than others. The barrel actually has a bit of color to it now. Everything was wiped down with RemOil to fully stop the reaction. That enhanced the color in some areas and removed some of the color in others. I'll pick up some non-detergent 30w to use in the future.

I'm happy with the way this turned out and now I know what to expect. Next time I will budget far more time for the rusting process and might actually do some surface prep on the metal. For now we're back together again and it's time to go shooting.

2152hq · #55 02-03-2024, 06:23 PM

(Added..I didn't realize this was so long, so delete it if needed)

What Bluing Soln did you use?

I'm guessing it was what they call an Express Rust Blue soln.
I don't know what Brownells has for that anymore.
Their 'Classic Rust Blue Soln' is a Cold Rust' or 'Slow Rust blue soln.

There is a difference in how an Express Rust and a Slow Rust bluing is done.

But first, th metal needs to be absolutely clean.
A cleaning with the solvent is good. A scubbing after that with hot water/dish soap & a tooth brush will get the built up gunk in the crevices.
If you don't get all that out, it will liquify during the boiling cycles when actually bluing. At that point the crud will contaminate your boiling water and effect the bluing. It'll also drag out onto the metal parts and then contaminate the Carding Wheel (Wire Wheel) when you card them.

A very hot , near boiling water bath using a bit of Lye (sodium Hydroxide) will cut any grease /oil in or on the metal and leave it clean. That was the old formula for the cleaning tanks. Then clean boiling water or very hot for a rinse.
You can also use TSP powdered cleaner ,,a couple tbs per gallon water to do the same.
Do not boil either cleaning soln with the parts in it. Just HOT.

Do not touch the parts with your fingers after cleaning nor during the bluing process unless you are very lucky (?) to have extremely dry skin that will not 'print' the surfaces.

No need to plug the bores or chambers. Just don't put the Bluing soln(s) in there. Nothing else but boiling water will touch them.

If you are going to Express Rust Blue, you need the part(s) to be warm.
Not so hot that the soln when applied sizzles. Just warm enough that a patch or even a clean brush with a minimum of soln on it gently drawn across the surfaces lays down a thin coating and right behind that, the coating drys from the heat of the part.

The dried coating will be brown(ish) in color.
At that point you can place the part right into the boiling water for 10 to 20min.
There is no need to hang them and let them rust. They will not develope any further rust coating than they already have.
This is the 'Express' of the Express Rust process.

They will turn blue/black in the boiling water almost immedietly.

Pull them out and shake the water off. Use compressed air IF you are sure there is no oil in the compressed air system.
A wadded up paper towel can be used to pin point small drops down inside areas that don't want to evaporate quickly. But don't wipe over the part entirely with anything.
If water is left on the surfaces and you Card over the wet spots, it will discolor the finish already built up.

Now take the part and handling it with dowel(s), pliers, plugs, cloth gloves, whatever so you don't actually touch it,,,Card the surfaces to remove the loosened black debris and burnish the color underneath.

If the part is large , it may still be warm enough to have the next coat of bluing soln swabbed onto it.
If it needs some help, use a propane torch flame carefully, an aside stove burner, heat gun, etc to warm the part back up. Don't over heat.
Swab on the next coating. Same as before..nice and thin and don't scrubb it in. Down and up the long parts. If you miss a sliver of area, leave it and the next cycle will get it.
Back into the boiling water.

Repeat these cycles as many times as needed for the color you want.
Normally it will take about 4 to 10 cycles to complete. It depends on the steel alloy, the specific soln you are using, the water (distilled is best), and if there is anything effecting the cycles like contamination.

When you card with a wire wheel like you have, it's OK to go non-directional. That will actually burnish the color and produce a better looking finish as well as being more efficient in carding.
Don't use a lot of pressure,,let the wheel do the work. It should not leave marks in the finish especially when using the very fine wire sizes like .003d.

IF you are going to Slow Rust Blue,,it is different from the above in the following.
#1 is that it uses it's own Slow Rust Bluing Soln(s).
Express Rust Solns are for just that.
Slow Rust Blue uses Slow Rust Blue Solns.

You clean the metal the same, take the same precautions in handling.

But:
You apply the rusting soln to the metal parts when the parts are Room Temp. Do not heat them up.

Once the parts are coated, set them aside and allow them to rust naturally (The 'Slow' in Slow Rust Blue)

Depending on the soln you use, the temp and the humidity in the room, it can =take anywhere from a couple hrs to a couple days for the very fine controlled rust to form. That is what you want....and it does not need to be a very heavy covering. Just a reddish coloring to the metal surface is all thats needed to convert to a bluing color cycle.

When you have the parts ready, then get the water boiling. Put the parts in the same as with Express Rust amd let them boil for the 10 to 20min.

With Slow Rust, remove them and shake & blot any water off of them. Then just hang them and let them cool off on their own.
No need to hurry as you can't re-coat them till they are Room Temp again anyway.
Once cooled off ,,Card them on the wheel as before taking the same precautions. I like using a set of those soft cloth Gardners gloves when doing this part.

Then recoat as above,,set aside again to naturally rust and around and around you go again.

......

I usually leave the sideplate off on a revolver when rust bluing.
It's on it of course when being polished, but it's a separate part when being blued.
Often the side plate or a similar type part can trap water in that seam when it's pulled from the boiling tank.
Then that little bit of water can run across the nice flat side of the revolver and spoilthe bluing as you start to card.
The carding wheel will not round any edges. The wires are only .003d generally and should be run at around 450/500rpm max anyway.

Screws, pins, small parts ect I place in a shallow 'tin can' with holes punched in the bottom with a nail. I place the can down in the tank with a pliers and it just sets on the bottom and boils away nicely. Pull it out with the pliers, let it drain and then dump it carefully onto some paper towels.
Move the parts around to dry which they do quickly being small. Then card them.

Don't get to casual with the carding wheel. It can grab a small part and fling it in to WorkShop's UnKn Zone. Especially those odd shaped ones.
I used a horizontal bearing block set-up for my Carding wheel for probably 40 yrs. It was a back breaker when doing SxS bbl sets.

One hand on each end of a 30" set w/a handle peg. Then making complete swipes end to end verticaly.
The motor caught on fire one time (another story).
I didn't have another spare 'found it along the side of the road in a junk pile' washing machine motor. So I took the Carding wheel and hooked it up in my Mill to use..horizontal now.
It's been that way ever since and I like it alot better

The longer you let Slow Rust parts actually rust and have the rust build up on the parts, the more chance you have of getting a matted final finiah. That because that rusting process is actually beginning to micro pit the metal surfaces.
All that heavy rust just muddys the boiling water as well. Then you have to stop and empty & clean, then refill the water tank while bluing for good results.

You can rust blue (either type) over old bluing,both Hot Salt Blue and orig Rust Blue with good results.
It's best to go over the old blued finish with a Scotchbrite pad to break to surface a bit as they usually hold some hardened oil, dirt,etc.
No need to remove the old bluing, just scuff it up a bit then the final few strokes you can change to grit lines to match the surrounding polishing on the metal.
..FWIW..those crusty looking brown patches you get when Rust Bluing old work is where there is orig Bluing still in tact generally.
The old blue holding onto some oil and contaminates that don't allow the new Rust Blue Soln to do it's thing.
It generally cards right off and blends back in OK. Sometimes in the bright light on a completed job the area will be seen.
Scuffing the old blue with ScotchBrite will nearly ellininate it. I use the Marron and Grey color stuff alot.

Many of the Slow Rust Blue formulas have Nitric Acid in them, even if just a tiny amt.
The Brownells Classic does. Laurel Mtn does.
Sometimes these will give you after-rust issues. The job is all done, Gun reassembled. Then you wipe it down a day or two later and the cloth is black.
That's the rusting soln continuing to 'rust'.
As a final rinse after the last carding, some people use a Sodium Bicarbonate soln (base soln). I've found that not to be strong enough when using L/Mountain. Sodium Carbonate (washing soda) works well though. Much stronger.
The TSP solnused to pre-clean the parts works pretty good too.
Lately I have been using Refined Linseed Oil as a coating on the finished parts. Let that set for a couple days. Then remove that with acetone on a cloth. I've gotten no after-rust. I don't know why.
It doesn't work using the bulk BLO from the Paint Dept at Loews. Has to be the Artist Dept little bottle of Refined Linseed.
..If I put one cycle of Express Rust Blue as a final coat over my finished Slow Rust Blue project,(boil & card) that also will kill any after-rust problems. Again I have no idea why it works.

There is quite a bit to Rust Bluing. The idea is simple, it's the techniques, prep, and small details that make the difference in the final finish.
..ain't it the way in so many things we do.

Pig Hunter · #56 02-03-2024, 09:48 PM

SC, maybe you knew this, but you need to boil with distilled water. Rainwater works too. 2152hq has forgotten more than I know, his idea of mounting the carding wheel horizontally is how everyone I know does it. Try it again in the drill press. The speed of the press is something people can't agree on. I run mine faster than some people, but not as fast as it will go. Clean cloth gloves of some type keep you from cleaning your fingernails. You'll have to degrease the pistol again before the next session. Brownells solution is hot. But you should have a wet look when you put the solution on, not running but wet. Tweezers holding a 100% cotton cotton ball makes a good applicator. A wooden dowel in the barrel will make applying the solution easier. If you have splotchy areas as you are working acetone or alcohol soaked patch rubbed on the area can help the next coat even out.

Shotguncoach · #57 02-04-2024, 12:02 AM

Thank you gentlemen....I appreciate the time and advice.

The solution I have is the Brownells Classic Rust Blue for the slow-rust process. I did use distilled water and a new pot that has never had anything else in it.

It's going to take me a bit to digest all of the advice. I'm deep inside a Ruger Security Six at the moment and saw this during a break. I'll be back when I get that one back together....

Shotguncoach · #58 04-14-2024, 01:37 AM

After 5 more iterations of Brownells rust blue, I think I'm at a point where I've gotten all that I can get out of Short & Sweet for now. The point of this exercise was to see what would happen if I simply blued over the old finish without doing any metal prep or trying to fix any of the pits. It looks ok from a distance but up close it's obvious that it was a "refinish over the old ugliness" job.

I'm going to carry it for a while and see how the finish holds up. At the end of the summer I may decide to strip it and start again, but for now I'm going to call this one done. Short & Sweet taught me quite a bit...this was fun.

Here's the invoice and auction picture:

And here's how we came out: