Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Ammunition-Gunsmithing > S&W-Smithing

S&W-Smithing Maintenance, Repair, and Enhancement of Smith & Wesson and Other Firearms.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-21-2024, 08:35 PM
The Last Standing Knight The Last Standing Knight is offline
Member
I have a big problem.  
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Southeast Texas
Posts: 1,671
Likes: 786
Liked 1,476 Times in 549 Posts
Default I have a big problem.

Few years back, I bought a Reminton 870 "firearm"...you know, short barrel, birdshead grip. Same league as a Mossberg Shockwave.

Problem is all I have to do is look at it and it rusts. Not just surface, but RUST. It is a constant struggle to keep it free of rust but have found right now it's like sweeping the ocean back with a broom.

I've used Frog Lube, CLP, brushes, etc over and over and any fix doesn't even last 24 hours.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Getting highly disgusted over this.
__________________
The Last Standing Knight
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-21-2024, 08:43 PM
kwill1911's Avatar
kwill1911 kwill1911 is online now
SWCA Member
I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem.  
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Central TX
Posts: 2,192
Likes: 1,022
Liked 4,599 Times in 1,269 Posts
Default

What kind of finish does it have? If blue, have you tried wax?
__________________
Kevin Williams SWCA1649 HF208
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #3  
Old 05-21-2024, 08:50 PM
The Last Standing Knight The Last Standing Knight is offline
Member
I have a big problem.  
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Southeast Texas
Posts: 1,671
Likes: 786
Liked 1,476 Times in 549 Posts
Default

Parkerized....if you can call it that.
Have far superior parkerization on some of my service grade firearms.
__________________
The Last Standing Knight
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-21-2024, 09:34 PM
2152hq 2152hq is offline
Member
I have a big problem.  
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,794
Likes: 1,649
Liked 9,254 Times in 3,415 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Standing Knight View Post
Parkerized....if you can call it that.
Have far superior parkerization on some of my service grade firearms.
Parkerize Solutions are generally Phosphoric Acid & Nitric Acid with the manganese salts all in soln.

If after the process the prts are not properly rinsed of the Parkerizing Soln, the Acids involved if traces still are on the surface will continue to rust the steel. Especially the Nitric Acid.
Oil is generally very poor solvent for removing most acids from a surface. It needs to be washed/rinsed from the steel surface.

The heavily etched surfaces of the PArkerized finish, likely bead or sandblasted as well can hold the acid residue even tighter and make it more difficult to remove.

I'd try a complete strip down and a hot soapy water scrub, hot water rinse. The dry and oil wipe down. See if that makes any different.

You might try the process just on a small part or two that are giving you the rusting issue before going after the entire shotgun.
It might even take a couple sessions to get it to quit.

just my thoughts..
Pretty easy to do. Not much to loose.
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
  #5  
Old 05-21-2024, 09:46 PM
The Last Standing Knight The Last Standing Knight is offline
Member
I have a big problem.  
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Southeast Texas
Posts: 1,671
Likes: 786
Liked 1,476 Times in 549 Posts
Default Thanks, gents. Appreciate the info.

I was about to scream. This is the ONLY firearm I have that does this.
__________________
The Last Standing Knight
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #6  
Old 05-21-2024, 11:11 PM
kwill1911's Avatar
kwill1911 kwill1911 is online now
SWCA Member
I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem.  
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Central TX
Posts: 2,192
Likes: 1,022
Liked 4,599 Times in 1,269 Posts
Default

I own several 870s and my son has one with what I think is the same finish as yours. I don't think it is Parkerized. I suspect it is just blue over a sand-blasted finish. His tends to rust around the vent rib and other corners and crevices.
__________________
Kevin Williams SWCA1649 HF208
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #7  
Old 05-22-2024, 11:13 AM
gwpercle's Avatar
gwpercle gwpercle is offline
Member
I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem.  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 6,968
Likes: 7,687
Liked 8,278 Times in 3,746 Posts
Default

It might be the original finish ... when done incorrectly ... Salts don't get neutrlized and washed away and these salts get trapped in crevices and over time will slowly leach out causing rust ...
There is no way , I know of to solve this condition .
The factory finish wasn't done correctly ... My thoughts are ...
Have a long talk with Remington ... they should fix / re-finish it !
The weather conditions in Southeast Texas are just right to grow Rust ... Remington needs to help you !
Gary
__________________
Certified Cajun
NRA Member

Last edited by gwpercle; 05-22-2024 at 11:21 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #8  
Old 05-22-2024, 04:35 PM
chief38's Avatar
chief38 chief38 is offline
Member
I have a big problem.  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 18,067
Likes: 8,059
Liked 26,517 Times in 8,891 Posts
Default

THe best rust inhibitor I know of Is Rig Universal Grease. Get some and clean off the rust. Then put a light coating of the Rig on it. If it still rusts after that, you have a poorly finished gun and I'd contact Remington - or whoever took them over. While they bought Remington out of bankruptcy and have no legal obligation to help you out, you can always ask - nothing to loose.

Try the Rig Universal Grease after a good cleaning.

Another idea is to wait for a gun buy back and sell it to your County or State. Don't know what they might pay in your area (if anything) but in some areas they pay up to $200 bucks. Put that towards an new SG!

Last edited by chief38; 05-22-2024 at 04:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-22-2024, 07:16 PM
jem102 jem102 is offline
SWCA Member
I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem.  
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: East TN
Posts: 459
Likes: 1,389
Liked 487 Times in 226 Posts
Default

If Remington, or whomever they are, won't help you the advice from 2152hg is sound. If it's rusting everywhere it was not correctly, if at all, post treated. As he stated you have to neutralize the salts and acids. I blued guns as a hobby business many years ago and I always took the baskets straight from the bluing tanks to the clear water boiling tanks for 30 minutes. As they boiled scum would rise to the top to skim off and I assumed this was the remaining residue from the bluing salts. This also seemed to "harden" the finish and when pulled from the boiling tanks the water would flash off. I immediately saturated them with oil and set them aside for at least 2 days. I received many complements for how well the jobs held up.
Best of luck on curing the issue.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #10  
Old 05-22-2024, 08:01 PM
dfariswheel dfariswheel is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 1,431
Likes: 0
Liked 963 Times in 421 Posts
Default

I seem to recall reading that the new Remington is not providing any warranty or repairs on the original Remington guns.
Contact them to ask.

The Express guns finish was bluing over a bead blasted surface.
The later guns were very bad about rusting for unknown reasons.

One way to try to fix the issue would be doing a hot water and soap scrub, dry thoroughly and spray it dripping wet with Rem Oil or CLP Breakfree.
Remington LE used to recommend disassembling the 870P Police guns and spraying dripping wet with Rem Oil, give it 20 minutes to dissolve the factory preservative, wipe dry and put into use.

Another way would be to slather on a thick coat of grease and warm it with a hair dryer.
Let it cool then wipe off the excess grease.
This will fill the rough surface with grease and seal it.
Salt water bird hunters do the same using wax, usually Johnson's Paste Wax, but now since it's discontinued, they use Min-Wax wax.

Note: Car wax is not suitable for this.

Finally, a sure and permanent solution would be to degrease it and apply a spray-on gun "paint" like Brownell's Aluma-Hyde, Lauer Duracoate, Gun-Kote, or Cerakote over the bluing.
The rough surface gives coatings a "tooth" to bond to.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #11  
Old 05-22-2024, 08:38 PM
glowe's Avatar
glowe glowe is offline
US Veteran

I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem.  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Michigan Western UP
Posts: 12,418
Likes: 3,077
Liked 14,544 Times in 5,536 Posts
Default

A trick I learned years ago when rust bluing and browning guns is to boil them in water and sodium hydroxide. The high ph will neutralize any remnants of acid. Rinse, dry, and oil should to take care of the rust for good.
__________________
Gary
SWCA 2515

Last edited by glowe; 05-26-2024 at 10:36 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #12  
Old 05-22-2024, 08:42 PM
kraynky's Avatar
kraynky kraynky is online now
Member
I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem.  
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Central Kentucky
Posts: 3,131
Likes: 11,592
Liked 5,242 Times in 1,983 Posts
Default

A "Do it yourself" cerakote product was my first thought. However about 30 + years ago I bought a Mossberg 500 that I knew I was going to have outside a lot, and I paid a local gunsmith to parkerize it. It was pretty cheap as I recall, and it's still rust free.

I like the idea of grease & heat mentioned above, it reminds me of seasoning an iron skillet. LOL!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-22-2024, 09:35 PM
Vtgw938 Vtgw938 is online now
SWCA Member
I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem.  
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,077
Likes: 814
Liked 2,329 Times in 581 Posts
Default

Spray paint. I bought an 870 about 15 years ago at Dicks and it would rust at the drop of a hat. I spray painted it green and didn't put much time into the prep. Every so often I would hit it with the rattle can. It was fine after that. I think it was painted to begin with!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #14  
Old 05-23-2024, 01:00 AM
series guy series guy is online now
Member
I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem.  
Join Date: May 2010
Location: The Steel City
Posts: 2,174
Likes: 7,005
Liked 4,453 Times in 1,419 Posts
Default

Ballistol should solve your problem. It will neutralize acid.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-23-2024, 01:23 AM
BC38's Avatar
BC38 BC38 is offline
Member
I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem.  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 13,794
Likes: 1,260
Liked 18,854 Times in 7,470 Posts
Default

A heavy coat of wax would be the first thing I'd try.
I like Renaissance Wax for firearms, but lots of people have said that they got very good results using plain old Johnson's paste wax.
__________________
Send lawyers, guns & money...
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-23-2024, 02:29 AM
6string's Avatar
6string 6string is offline
Member
I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem.  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Upstate, SC
Posts: 2,085
Likes: 3,189
Liked 4,984 Times in 1,581 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by glowe View Post
A trick I learned years ago when rust bluing and browning guns is to boil them in water and sodium hydroxide. The high ph will neutralize any remnants of acid. Rince, dry, and oil should to take care of the rust for good.
I was thinking the same thing. If the existing finish is salvagable, the way to do it is neutralizing the acidity.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-23-2024, 03:11 AM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is offline
Member
I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem.  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,965
Likes: 262
Liked 29,655 Times in 14,298 Posts
Default

Johnson's Paste Wax is definitely worth a try. And far cheaper than the so-called RenWax which will do absolutely nothing that JPW won't do just as well. Parkerized (phosphate) coatings are normally dipped in a Sodium Dichromate solution as a corrosion inhibitor after it is applied. Whether your was dipped or not is unknown. Another way is to apply one of the several spray and bake finishes over the phosphate. That works very well, I have done that to many guns.

Last edited by DWalt; 05-23-2024 at 03:15 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-23-2024, 05:59 AM
Skeptic 9c's Avatar
Skeptic 9c Skeptic 9c is offline
Member
I have a big problem. I have a big problem.  
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northeastern Florida
Posts: 1,829
Likes: 4,986
Liked 5,603 Times in 1,019 Posts
Default

Sounds like a job for a professional re-finisher, if you think a dying Remington era shotgun substitute is worth it.

Geoff
Who is a Mossberg 500 fan.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-23-2024, 08:48 AM
chief38's Avatar
chief38 chief38 is offline
Member
I have a big problem.  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 18,067
Likes: 8,059
Liked 26,517 Times in 8,891 Posts
Default

If the gun was never finished correctly, then putting ANY coating on top of it (including oil or grease) is probably futile. If that is the case, then a complete strip and refinish would have to be done. If the original price of said SG is in the $300 - $500 range it just isn't worth the effort and additional monies. Sell it at a Gun Buy-back for as much as you can, then replace it. If you have no buy backs in your area, you could disclose it's issue and just get what you can. There are people who would buy anything as long as they think its a bargain. Just disclose to buyer which is the right thing to do.

I did state above - it is certainly worth a call to the new Remington asd ask what they can do if anything. Like I also stated above, while they are a new entity and not liable for what the old Remington did, they still share a common name and might offer you something.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #20  
Old 05-23-2024, 09:03 AM
BE Mike's Avatar
BE Mike BE Mike is offline
Member
I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem.  
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 3,614
Likes: 2,316
Liked 3,551 Times in 1,507 Posts
Default

Have you tried CorrosionX? I've used it with very good results.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 05-23-2024, 09:14 AM
glenwolde's Avatar
glenwolde glenwolde is online now
Member
I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem.  
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,892
Likes: 1,694
Liked 6,568 Times in 2,400 Posts
Default

I have one that tends to do the same. It's a 20 gauge youth model and it will rust if you look at it with watery eyes. I bought it new for less than $200 about 15 years ago. I think it's a thinly applied matte blue. I'm considering Cerakote. It may cost more than I paid for the shotgun. But I'd spend even more replacing it with something else.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 05-23-2024, 02:43 PM
max503's Avatar
max503 max503 is offline
Member
I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem.  
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: So. Illinois
Posts: 2,660
Likes: 1,433
Liked 3,404 Times in 1,466 Posts
Default

That's weird. Mine did too when I first got it, but then it stopped rusting. I use regular gun oils on it.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 05-23-2024, 07:02 PM
dfariswheel dfariswheel is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 1,431
Likes: 0
Liked 963 Times in 421 Posts
Default

Unfortunately, Johnson's has discontinued their paste wax.
Today's substitute is Min-Wax paste wax, which may be even better.

An old trick from WWII for pistols was to slather on a thick coat of Cosmoline and bake the parts in an oven.
The waxy Cosmoline will melt into the Parkerized finish and seal the rough finish.
The same should work for a bead blasted blue finish.

The current paint type gun finishes sold by Brownell's are excellent do-it-yourself durable finishes.
Yeas ago before they were available, I sprayed on thick coats of Rustoleum oil based paint and baked the parts in an oven. This gave a surprisingly durable finish, more so then rattle can paints.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 05-23-2024, 08:11 PM
notsofast notsofast is online now
Member
I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem.  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: above ground, under water
Posts: 780
Likes: 763
Liked 633 Times in 276 Posts
Default

Maybe what you have to do to it will cost more than what it’s worth. Oil it often and shoot it some so you know it hasn’t rusted internally enough to make it not work.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 05-23-2024, 08:40 PM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is offline
Member
I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem.  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,965
Likes: 262
Liked 29,655 Times in 14,298 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfariswheel View Post
Unfortunately, Johnson's has discontinued their paste wax.
Today's substitute is Min-Wax paste wax, which may be even better.
Interesting, I did not know that. I see Amazon is selling a one pound can of Minwax paste wax for around $15. It is probably very similar to JPW. I have a one pound can of JPW which is at least 40 years old, and about half of it is still in the can. Have been using it on guns for a long time. It does not take much. Back in my CAS days I used a Winchester Model 97 pump in 12 gauge. That gun was unusual in that it rusted so easily and in no time at all if it got wet. I kept it rubbed down with JPW as part of my cleaning procedure and that kept it rust free. I imagine a can of neutral shoe polish would also be just as suitable for gun rustproofing.

Last edited by DWalt; 05-23-2024 at 08:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 05-23-2024, 09:14 PM
kbm6893 kbm6893 is offline
SWCA Member
I have a big problem. I have a big problem.  
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 6,626
Likes: 644
Liked 6,901 Times in 2,556 Posts
Default

I bought my 870 right before the company was sold to Freedom Group. Paid $325. I haven't had any rust issues. I have got far more in accessories for the gun that what I paid for it. Blackhawk CompStock for recoil reduction, Mesa tactical 6 shot side saddle, Remington Police metal trigger guard replaced the original. New metal extractor, and I just added Wilson Combat High viz Ghost Ring sight. Very capable shotgun. The one area that turned a slightly plum color is the band that holds the barrel extension on.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 05-23-2024, 10:02 PM
Mike, SC Hunter Mike, SC Hunter is offline
Member
I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem.  
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In The Woods Of S.C.
Posts: 9,134
Likes: 14,472
Liked 14,178 Times in 5,156 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chief38 View Post
THe best rust inhibitor I know of Is Rig Universal Grease. Get some and clean off the rust. Then put a light coating of the Rig on it. If it still rusts after that, you have a poorly finished gun and I'd contact Remington - or whoever took them over. While they bought Remington out of bankruptcy and have no legal obligation to help you out, you can always ask - nothing to loose.

Try the Rig Universal Grease after a good cleaning.

Another idea is to wait for a gun buy back and sell it to your County or State. Don't know what they might pay in your area (if anything) but in some areas they pay up to $200 bucks. Put that towards an new SG!
You nailed it........RIG.........I use it on all my firearms.
__________________
S&W Accumulator
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 05-26-2024, 10:46 AM
glowe's Avatar
glowe glowe is offline
US Veteran

I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem. I have a big problem.  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Michigan Western UP
Posts: 12,418
Likes: 3,077
Liked 14,544 Times in 5,536 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6string View Post
I was thinking the same thing. If the existing finish is salvagable, the way to do it is neutralizing the acidity.
I should add that boiling rusted surface will turn the corrosion black, just as boiling after an application of rust blue. No need to spend time removing rust first. I agree that sealing in acid with wax or other products just delays the inevitable. Neutralize the finish and simply oil the surface.
__________________
Gary
SWCA 2515
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My first Smith, trigger problem. Need advice. 10/23 Problem solved. ccjcc81 S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 91 12-19-2015 07:09 PM
LG 405 Problem???? Robert B S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 3 11-05-2013 10:31 PM
Rear sight blade problem-IGNORE, Problem Solved dnonac S&W-Smithing 0 05-09-2013 08:55 AM
Magazine Problem or Rifle Problem?? JackPineSavage Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 9 04-02-2010 10:17 AM
is this a mag problem? 4506 problem 45calibre Smith & Wesson Semi-Auto Pistols 7 12-05-2008 03:41 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:07 AM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)