does anyone have a good target load i have been using 148gr hollow base waddcutters but i am told the twist rate is not suited for this gun (s/w686) the load is 2.5 gr of redot thanks Ed

I've had good luck with 3.2 grns of 231 in my .38 with 148 grn DBWC. I went up to 4.5 with Unique but it was too hot for me. Of course the best advice is use a reloading manual and work up a few loads of various powders if you can.

I want to add the bbl length has more to do with stabilizing a bullet more than the twist rate. A snub nose vs a 6 inch bbl does make a huge difference. Experimenting with different brand s of pistol powder is realy the key to unlocking a good accurate load. Don't worry about the twist rate in a pistol. In a rifle , heavy bullets [ longer ] the twist rate of the rifling can make a difference.

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JIM
NRA Pistol Instr

2.7GR WST , ZERO OR REMINGTON 148GR HBWC. JIM P

THIS IS A 24 SHOT GROUP AT 50YDS, FROM THE RANSOM REST WITH THAT LOAD

When being told a 148 gr. HBWC will not stabilize because of the twist rate, they are refering to the standard twist rate of a stock Smith & Wesson barrel. That being said, a stock barrel does fine with the HBWC out to about 50 yards. A competition shooter may bemoan the HBWC at 50 yards, because the grouping MAY open up a little at 50 due to the slow twist. If you are not shooting competition or shooting 50 yards, you won't notice. I shoot PPC and still use the 148 HBWC's at 50 yards. They shoot better out of the custom guns with faster twist, but they do OK in my stock 586 6 inch too.

The old standard bullseye pistol load was 2.7 gr. Bullseye behind the Remington 148 gr. LHBWC. Shot well in every gun I owned including a S&W 52-1. 3.2 gr. W-231 seems to do an equally good job.

I'm using 4.3 grs Unique behind a 158 gr SWC. I have some 158 LRN to test using the same load.

With a 148 HBWC I like the following loads : 3.1 - 3.2 W231 , 3.6 VVN340 , 2.9 VVN320 , 2.5 - 2.7 WST , 2.9 AA#2 , 2.7 - 2.9 BE . I like the old Star , Remington or Zero swaged HBWC's . Remington's are the cheapest if you buy in bulk . They have a messy graphite type lube but shoot extremely well . If you use a cast bullet the H&G 50 plain base is the one , but you'll have to bump the above loads up some as it likes about 800fps vs 700 - 750 for a swaged HBWC . As far as twist the S&W 52 also uses the slower twist , but with a tighter bore .355 - .356 . No one says they aren't accurate . PPC guns have been made with as fast as 1 in 10 . Test the above loads in your gun , I'm sure you'll find one it likes .

Can you tell me more about the grips in the photo?

THE GRIPS ARE NILL FROM GERMANY. LOOK AND HAVE FUN , BE BE ADVISED THEY ARE EXPENSIVE. JP

Nill Griffe - Special grips for revolvers

Uncountable billions, maybe trillions, of 148 HBWC have been fired through the standard 1:18.75 twist of Smith & Wessons

This gun and bullet combination set the standard for target shooting.

The wadcutters lose stability because the lack form stabilty. A faster twist will overcome this but they will still become unstable at some point before 100yds.

For normal target shooting out to 50yds you will be fine.

I was going to say the same , shoot 148s for fun out of my model 14-5 or 6s and they will group almost the same as my bull guns, at 50 yds, one hole at 25 yds with winchester factory 148 HBWC. Bob

I don't shoot comp but in my 6" 686 with the 148 speer HBwc iget good groups with 2.8 Bullseye at 710 fps and the BBwc
does well starting with 2.8 Bullseye and 3.5gr as the maximum.

My 1 7/8" snub 49 likes 2.7grs of bullseye at 628fps and shoots at poa at 15 feet. It also likes 2.5grs of trail boss
which is 1" low with 5 bullets @ 1.12" Both loads are equal
to factory velositys and recoil.
Lowest RedDot was 2.8grs that clocked 694 with F-100 primers and 3.3 with cci gave 775 fps but I did not put these loads on paper,just across my chrony...........sorry.

My shooting tests show 3.0 gr 231 shoot exactly the same as 2.7 gr Bullseye behind the 148 gr HBWC.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

I used the 148gr HBWC with 2.3-2.5grs Red Dot for years with my 6" 686. Bumped it up to 2.8grs when I switched to a model 52 and had no complaints. I was shooting mostly indoors 50' and some outdoor 25yd and never went on out to longer ranges with that load though.

158 gr lead RN, over 3.5 grs Bullseye. ONE RAGGED HOLE!

You could try switching to Trail Boss powder. The donut shape of the granules give more surface area for a fast, uniform burn. Also, because of its shape and resulting case volume, it is pretty impossible to double charge a case. As cases will be pretty full of powder for a 'standard' load, you don't get powders lying flat & burning from top to bottom in long cases like .38/.357. You could also try Mag.or small rifle primers with it. I've just picked up a 1.5kg can and will be testing it against my usual load of 3.4-3.6 gr. 231 w/ a 134gr FBSWCBN. (flat bottom, semi-wadcutter button nose. They punch a prettier hole than a RN any day too!

I love 158 weight swc over 4.5 to 4.8 grns of Unique.

No one mentioned 2.8 Clays behind a 148 grain full wadcutter? I shot bullseye with that load for years!
Dick

I keep referring to Ed Harris whenever I see someone working with wadcutters for some reason:

Message

You have to be able to log into see the post; what does he say?

cd586,

Google,

Why are 38 Special wadcutters so expensive? Ed Harris.


The article appeared in a Grant Cunningham article.

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NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

I use 2.6-2.8gr. of Bullseye with just about any 148gr. wadcutter.

For my Giles .38 Special M1911, I seat slightly below the case mouth and roll crimp over the shoulder.

For my Model 14 or other revolvers, I seat and roll crimp into the first crimp groove back from the nose of the bullet.

I'm using 4grs HP-38/W-231 , Win SP primers and a locally hardcast 148gr DEWC.

Never liked the Speer swaged bullets. A bit too soft and I've get leading after 50rds. The wax & graphite lube they use makes for a dirty gun.

They're SWC-HP should make a good defensive bullet though.

Similar experience here.

Ed- Lot of good info in this thread, here's my input; If you aren't shooting in a discipline where the precise cut a HBWC puts on the target is an advantage, I'd pick another bullet. The DEWC is a good bullet and loads easier, SWC loads even better and round nose loads great from a speed loader. HBWC is usually pretty soft lead if you are having an issue with that.