Hey, guys, I am thinking of getting into USPSA Revolver division shooting. Since I live in the state of Kalifornia, my choices are rather limited. So I end of getting a S&W Pro Series 627 in 357.

There is this 2011 old thread I find interesting. I think I understand the advantages of shooting shorter cartridge in competition. What confuses me is that the old thread seems to suggest I can shoot my 357 gun, using shorter cartridge, without a new cylinder. Is this true?

I am currently reloading 45acp, 9mm and 38spl on a Dillon 550. Adding another caliber is not a big deal, however, I am hoping I don't have to get a new cylinder or have to have my gun modified.

Thanks all.

Yes, you can shoot shorter cartridges in a .357 chambered 627 without changing the cylinder. The popular choices are .38 long Colt and .38 short Colt.

You will need a new cylinder or more to shoot .38 Super or 9mm.

Thanks for the reply. Given the case of 38sc is so much shorter than a 38spl or 38lc, would there be a potential problem with reloading?

You size with a .38 Special die and seat and crimp with 9mm dies. To make power factor, pressures will be well over that for original factory .38 Colt or even .38 Special, but you are putting them into a .357 magnum revolver. There are plenty of recipes out there. The Brian Enos forum is a great reference for these loads.

This is the best advice you've gotten. If you're serious about shooting 627 revolvers in competition, you need to get on the Brian Enos forum. That's where all the ICORE, USPSA and even IDPA shooters hang out and exchange ideas and info. They are very eager to encourage new revolver shooters. Most of the ICORE shooters are located in Cal. and Arizona.

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Bob.
SWCA 1821

Shooting the 8-shot 627 for USPSA is a hoot. You don't necessarily need to use anything other than 38 SPL, however, you may find better results reloading on the clock with the shorter cartridges in moon clips (less risk of screwing up the reload with the short cartridges). I use .38 Short Colt that I load with a Lee ".38 Short Colt" die set that is actually parts and pieces of other die sets cobbled together, as described above. For best results reloading on the clock, I suggest STIFF moonclips that are fitted to the particular brand of brass. I recommend Starline brass, with the TK Custom moon clips for 627, made specifically for Starline brass. Load data for 9mm is pretty good to start with for .38 Short Colt, with the added benefit of being able to run heavy/long bullets in Short Colt that might be problematic to chamber in a 9mm (I use 160 grain bullets). You may find reloading data here useful: .38 - Revo-Nation.com

Each component of the top-of-class shooter's bag o'tricks, is cumulative and very very personal.

Our local top dog ICORE match develop their gear to produce uniform and consistent ability to leave out anything that doesn't relate directly to sending rounds to the target or reloading.

My own casual approach with a 627 is tons of fun yet the harder I strive to exceed my own geezer pace the more work it becomes.

I use a custom leather holster as the speed versions are just simply not my style. I am way slower than any mere holster is going to overcome, so I like what I've got.

A LOT of time can be saved in the reloading cylinders, and the shorter cartridges with stiffStiffSTIFF moon clips are a big advantage to the pressure and inherent mistakes one makes trying to stuff wobbly 357 mag length cases into 8 different hole at once.

Dedicated to being 'the best participant' I can be, has reduced my stage times by about 30% over the past few years. The top shooters being 'the best competitors' they can be, have decreased their stage time by 40%.

The 627PC is a magnificent machine and even going geezer speed is wonderfully accurate and way faster than any other gun I use for ICORE.....although the 610 is a very close runner up.

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Dum vivimus Vivamas

The Moon clipped Short Colts also clear the cylinder completely on the ejector stroke. Just one less thing to worry about.
At our last ICORE Match one of our very experianced revolver shooters using his old duty revolver, a 4 Inch 19 goofed up a reload and got a piece of brass (38 Special) under the ejector star. This was the first time in several thousand rounds fired through his 19 that he had ever had this happen.
This cannot happen using moon clips. All the brass comes out as an assembly, with no way of getting a round under the star.

Bob R

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ICORE MO2908

Why do you hope that you don't need a new cylinder?

A second cylinder chambered for 9x23 Winchester lets you use short brass in moon clips that are MUCH more rigid than those designed to work with traditional revolver cartridges.



Plus the 9x23 cylinder will safely chamber and fire more than half a dozen cartridges. From 9x17 up to the 9x23, including the 9MM that you already load for.

Guys, thanks for all the replies.

I read elsewhere people mentioning that the 38sc is "difficult" to reload or to make the minor PF and has the "case bulging" issue. Can someone explain to me the issues? Or, perhaps I should ask - Is reloading 38sc any more difficult than reloading 9mm?

I am currently reloading 9mm and 45ACP for the USPSA Production and Single Stack on a Dillon RL550B, so I am fairly familiar with reloading process in general.

I've been handloading the .38 Short Colt round on a Dillon 650 since 2008...I keep records. If it was really difficult I'd be one of the first to fail. The only tricky part is it takes a Dillon 9mm powder die to get powder to drop. This is because the brass is so short the 38/357 die isn't long enough to activate the drop.

If you read all the discussion threads about loading .38 Short Colt, you'll get dizzy with conflicting opinions. Case bulge comes from pushing the bullet too deep into the case. Make your COL at least 1.17" and you should be OK. The other variable is powder choice....I started with TiteGroup which worked but heated the gun quite hot on long strings. I switched to VV N310 which burns cooler. Many use Clays which is harder to meter precisely.

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Bob.
SWCA 1821

Just starting on the 38 SC journey for my 327.
Ordered a couple hundred Starline cases then was gifted 100s more R-P and Western cases with a lot of 38S&W mixed in.
First loads were Bayou 135 RN over Red Dot that looked promising.
Considering trimming all the brass a few thou to 9mm length to eliminate variations when expanding them.
Using 9MM starting load data for starters.

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

Thanks. So the only 38 spl die used would be the resizing die, the rest should all be 9mm ones. That makes sense. From what I read, the .38 short colt has the case length .765". It is just a little bit taller than the 9x19, which is at .754".

I'll be using Win231. Pistol powder choices are very limited these days.

I am hoping to avoid this trimming process altogether. However, if I do want to go down that route, I'll probably trim to the 38 super length as some other shooters have suggested.

Starline is out of stock for the 38sc brass right now...

If you trim Short Colt brass and then decide to sell out a few years down the road, you'll find fewer buyers.

Why trim...I don't get it?

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Bob.
SWCA 1821

If trimming .38 Special down, 38 Super (.900") sounds like a fine target.
Trimming 38 Short is a different matter altogether.
The cases vary enough in length enough that, when expanding, some get too much while others are barely touched.
As for selling out, I'll be dead and buried, so whatever's left behind will be of no concern whatsoever.

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

I realized after I posted that you must be referring to the non-Starline brass you received....so I do get it. I was merely saying Starline brass didn't need trimming....and I was speaking to the OP.

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Bob.
SWCA 1821