Smith & Wesson Forum

Advertise With Us Search
Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Smith & Wesson General Topics > Smith & Wesson Competitive Shooting

Notices

Smith & Wesson Competitive Shooting All aspects of competitive shooting using Smith and Wesson Firearms. Including: IPSC, IDPA, Silhouette, Bullseye.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-27-2023, 01:13 PM
Grimjaws Grimjaws is online now
Member
Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 625
Likes: 10
Liked 2,084 Times in 327 Posts
Default Two revolvers at once on steel range

Recently acquired a nice 19-3 4” that makes a great brother to another 19-3 4” I picked up last year.
Our range recently put up some steel targets and since you only live once and I’m a fan of Josey Wales I’d like to try some two revolver shooting.

I’m gonna do both single action and double action.

So the question is for anyone who tried it how do you handle your eye dominance? I’m right handed and right eye dominant so wondering if I should try to focus out of left eye when shooting leftie or close one eye.

Just curious if anyone ever tried this and what your thoughts are too.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-27-2023, 01:41 PM
robertrwalsh robertrwalsh is online now
SWCA Member
Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range  
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Peoples Republic of Calif
Posts: 4,672
Likes: 1,236
Liked 6,045 Times in 2,154 Posts
Default

I have actually tried it. It is a LOT harder than it looks on TV. You tend to develop a L R L R L R pattern rather than dropping both hammers simultaneously in my experience. Its fun, but sort of pointless (in my modest personal experience).
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #3  
Old 12-27-2023, 01:43 PM
H30 H30 is offline
Member
Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range  
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Nevada
Posts: 134
Likes: 79
Liked 60 Times in 42 Posts
Default

Personally, I would just move the gun on the left over to the right eye. If you watch Josey, that's what he does. If you shoot with both eyes open it's easy to do.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 12-27-2023, 02:06 PM
Rammer Jammer's Avatar
Rammer Jammer Rammer Jammer is online now
Member
Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range  
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 885
Likes: 1,070
Liked 1,750 Times in 579 Posts
Default

Doesn't really matter how you go about aiming. Shooting akimbo is for the movies and will waste ammo. But have fun and stay safe giving it a try.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-27-2023, 03:07 PM
Brian Parrish's Avatar
Brian Parrish Brian Parrish is online now
Member
Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range  
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Winston Salem
Posts: 300
Likes: 987
Liked 353 Times in 175 Posts
Default My Personal Experience

I have not tried double gunning, but I'll tell you what I do know.

I carry a Smith 457 in 45ACP or a model 411 on the right hip at 3 or 4 o'clock and a CS40 on the left at 8 o'clock loaded with 185 or 180 grain rounds respectively. I pull the LH gun and sight it with the left eye. I pull the RH gun and sight it with the right eye. I shoot equally well/poorly with either hand/eye. I never tried to use or not use either eye, but I do try to fire the instant the front blade in on target. My brain somehow just uses the first eye that is available. (I use the Chapman modified Weaver stance, FS focus, flash sight picture, rapid trigger squeeze. My RH groups are tighter, but the score on target is the same. My times fluctuate and depend on getting the jacket out of the way on the draw with either hand.)

What we call right handedness is just a weak mental comfort preference when beginning a new skill. This disappears with minimal practice which is why you have never seen a left-handed piano. How about a left-handed typewriter or keyboard?

IMHO my right eye dominance is an even weaker preference. YMMV.
Please correct me anyone. I ain't no expert.

Let us know how it goes, and thanks for the post, Grimjaws!

Kind regards,
BrianD
__________________
696-6906-457-38-3913-CS40-411
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-27-2023, 07:29 PM
Imissedagain's Avatar
Imissedagain Imissedagain is offline
US Veteran
Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range  
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: South Florida
Posts: 2,480
Likes: 3,488
Liked 4,245 Times in 1,902 Posts
Default

Good to try it without using sights for either hand.
Ya never know if you'll have time to use the sights
or when your strong hand is out of action.
Laser sights have there uses for practicing that
dry firing.
Draw and point to an object till you get consistant.

Carry guns are all irons and lasers for practicing.
__________________
Have Fun/Stay Safe

Last edited by Imissedagain; 12-27-2023 at 07:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #7  
Old 12-27-2023, 08:26 PM
Bald1's Avatar
Bald1 Bald1 is online now
Member
Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range  
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: NY
Posts: 2,982
Likes: 2,230
Liked 5,467 Times in 1,974 Posts
Default

I wouldn’t call having fun a waste of ammo. That’s why we target shoot. It’s fun. I’ve done this with a couple 4” model 10s. With a 6” M&P and 4” 64 DAO. I even tried it with a 8 3/8” 629 and 6” 629. At 20 yds on a 24x20 steel silhouette, you’d be suprised how quickly you get the hang of it. I do it double action basically point shooting. If you shoot a box of 50 you’ll see big improvement from start to finish. Maybe try starting at 10 yds if necessary.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #8  
Old 12-28-2023, 11:07 PM
Shotguncoach Shotguncoach is offline
SWCA Member
Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range  
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Arizona
Posts: 492
Likes: 384
Liked 2,244 Times in 377 Posts
Default

Short version:

If you are younger and play lots of video games on a big screen TV, shoot right hand/right eye and left hand/left eye.

If you are older, use your dominant eye for both hands. Just move your non-dominant hand so that the gun is under the appropriate eye.


Long version:

As you may guess from my user name, I've spent quite a few years teaching people (young and old) to shoot flying targets with shotguns. I started doing this towards the end of the previous century or as my millennial employees like to say "the late 1900's". In that time I've made lots of observations and developed a few theories about eye dominance and "switching hands". There are many websites that can walk you through how to determine eye dominance. I suggest that you figure out just how strong your eye dominance is before you try to shoot with both hands. You may be surprised and learn that you are actually co-dominant and that you have just taught yourself to do it one way.

I've noticed that "older" people who are 40+ and did not grow up in front of a big screen TV playing video games tend to have very strong eye dominance. I believe this is because we actually went outside and did things when we were young, usually some kind of sport or physical activity. If you fall into this category, I would recommend using the same eye to aim with either hand. If you are right eye dominant and are shooting with your left hand, just move the gun so that it is lined up with your right eye. This is a much easier problem to solve with a pistol than it is with a shotgun.

Males tend to have their dominant eye match their dominant hand, females tend towards cross-dominance (no jokes about the terminology here) or in other words are right-handed and left-eyed or vice versa. If you fall into the cross-dominant category you may find that it is easier to shoot with the non-dominant hand simply because it is on the same side as your dominant eye. This is why shotgun instructors now usually begin with establishing eye dominance instead of hand dominance when working with a brand new shooter.

I've noticed that there is a definite trend towards co-dominance in young shooters that coincides with the rise in popularity of large tv's and video games. My theory is that these young people have taught themselves to use whichever eye is closest to the action on the screen. If the action is on the left, they're left eye takes over. If the action is on the right, the right eye takes over. This becomes extremely obvious when addressing crossing targets like you would find in the middle of a round of skeet. If you are young and play lots of video games, try it as right hand/right eye and left hand/left eye and see what you get.

There may be another surprise for you: many of us find that we initially shoot better when we switch hands. I believe that is because we focus more on the fundamentals of grip, sight picture, and trigger press and we don't have years of bad habits built up with the other hand.

A left right left right cadence was already mentioned. This is the easiest way to start. It is possible to aim and shoot both guns at the same time but you have to be able to force your vision to relax. Move the guns around so that one is directly in front of each eye. Focus on the target, and use your peripheral vision to align the sights. You'll see a mostly clear sight picture on the side with your dominant eye and a transparent "ghost" sight picture on the non-dominant side. You have to relax. If you try to force this it won't work.

Practice by focusing both both eyes on a distant object, then with your right eye closed use your left index finger to point at the object. Leave your finger where it is and switch which eye is closed. The finger will most likely appear to move. Keep that finger in the same place and with your left eye closed point at the object with your right index finger. Now open both eyes....you'll see the ghost images for just a second before your dominant eye takes over. Learn to relax your vision and allow the ghost images to appear and you can do some amazing things.

Last edited by Shotguncoach; 12-28-2023 at 11:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-29-2023, 11:06 AM
Protocall_Design Protocall_Design is online now
Vendor
Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kansas City area
Posts: 6,190
Likes: 54,501
Liked 13,614 Times in 4,291 Posts
Default

Thanks for the lesson, coach!
__________________
protocalldesign.com
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #10  
Old 12-29-2023, 02:46 PM
Brian Parrish's Avatar
Brian Parrish Brian Parrish is online now
Member
Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range  
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Winston Salem
Posts: 300
Likes: 987
Liked 353 Times in 175 Posts
Default I am older guy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shotguncoach View Post
Short version:

If you are younger and play lots of video games on a big screen TV, shoot right hand/right eye and left hand/left eye.

If you are older, use your dominant eye for both hands. Just move your non-dominant hand so that the gun is under the appropriate eye.
Thank you so much!
Please correct me? Am I right in saying that handedness is a preference? I am a musician, and my wife and daughters are all music teachers.

Anything can be trained away. My grandmother taught elementary school in the days when lefties were taught to write with their right hand anyway. They ended up with a more beautiful hand than others. That is now thought to be not merely unnecessary but a very evil thing to do to the poor little honeys:-) It even actually makes them smarter because it helps in training away the much more extreme left-brain dominance which hinders them from being artistic and poetic.

I shoot LH/left eye, RH/right eye, not because I am ambidextrous, but because like a gamer, I was going for time and my brain just did that. Right?

Just like shotgunners focus on the target and shoot instinctively, wouldn't we also just focus on the target not the front sight when firing 2 handguns simultaneously?

Thanks for your teaching,
BrianD
__________________
696-6906-457-38-3913-CS40-411
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #11  
Old 12-29-2023, 03:43 PM
Model 15-4ever Model 15-4ever is offline
Member
Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range  
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: East Coast
Posts: 348
Likes: 491
Liked 659 Times in 185 Posts
Default

Don't try it with aluminium frame revolvers...
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-29-2023, 05:38 PM
Shotguncoach Shotguncoach is offline
SWCA Member
Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range  
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Arizona
Posts: 492
Likes: 384
Liked 2,244 Times in 377 Posts
Default

Hi BrianD - if your hand-eye coordination is good enough, yes you could just focus on the target.

It’s interesting that you brought up music. I’ve found that math and engineering people need to think in terms of science and measurements (and tend to be great long distance rifle shooters!), while musicians and poets are much more inclined to embrace the art of shooting.

One group forces the shot to happen, the other group allows the shot to happen.

Be open to it, listen to your body and how things feel, and observe the results. You may be surprised how fast it happens when you don’t try to force it.

I also agree that right or left handness is a preference/habit. We’re from the same era and I remember the ‘no lefties’ rules as well. I’m right handed, but my Dad was left handed and he taught me how to do everything that way. It came in handy when I severely burned my right hand and had only one usable hand for 6 months.

When you try it, just remember that the bullet jumps to the target because it wants to……just like notes from an instrument. You sound like you’re well on your way.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #13  
Old 01-04-2024, 12:40 AM
moonsterman moonsterman is online now
Member
Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range  
Join Date: Oct 2023
Posts: 133
Likes: 329
Liked 130 Times in 70 Posts
Default

***** I can hardly shoot one at a time....two.......just a waste of ammo!!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-04-2024, 02:25 AM
BigMuddy BigMuddy is online now
Member
Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range  
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Linn Creek MO
Posts: 703
Likes: 1,019
Liked 999 Times in 426 Posts
Default

I shot many thousands of rounds with a Colt SAA in each hand when I was shooting “gunfighter” in CAS matches. I always used the sights and always sighted with my dominant (right) eye. It took a lot of time dry firing to get proficient. I was always cocking one gun while shooting the other. Once you get in that rhythm it can be pretty fast….. and FUN. Enjoy!

Dan

Last edited by BigMuddy; 01-04-2024 at 02:27 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #15  
Old 01-04-2024, 05:38 AM
petepeterson's Avatar
petepeterson petepeterson is offline
Member
Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,042
Likes: 6,278
Liked 4,875 Times in 1,884 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Parrish View Post
Thank you so much!
Please correct me? Am I right in saying that handedness is a preference? I am a musician, and my wife and daughters are all music teachers.
Why would anyone prefer to be left-handed then? Other than pitchers and hockey players?
Seem to me that you see which hand a small child uses more pretty early on.
It would be a consistent percentage over the years of people that preferred the left?
Not being argumentative, just curious.
__________________
Because of the metric system?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-04-2024, 09:59 PM
Shotguncoach Shotguncoach is offline
SWCA Member
Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range  
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Arizona
Posts: 492
Likes: 384
Liked 2,244 Times in 377 Posts
Default

It's a good question....in a right handed world, making the conscious decision to be left handed makes life inconvenient. I think there's a difference between a child that uses one hand more frequently than another and therefore develops greater strength/coordination/dexterity with that hand and an adult sitting down to think about which hand they want to use.

Another way to look at it might be to consider learning to use the "off" hand not as a primary but to enable being ambidextrous. As a recovering auto mechanic I can certainly appreciate that.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-05-2024, 12:43 PM
David Sinko David Sinko is offline
Member
Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range  
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,095
Likes: 0
Liked 385 Times in 222 Posts
Default

I'm right handed and left eye dominant. When I shoot right handed I use my non-dominant right eye. When I shoot left handed I use my dominant left eye. The thought of using my dominant left eye to shoot right handed has always seemed absurd to me. That said, I do a lot of dry firing with revolvers with each hand and keeping the hands and fingers conditioned (especially the non-dominant hand) and learning to acquire the target with the respective eye is more important than anything else.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #18  
Old 01-05-2024, 03:36 PM
Shibadog Shibadog is offline
Member
Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range  
Join Date: Jul 2023
Location: Southern Kentucky
Posts: 243
Likes: 160
Liked 454 Times in 137 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shotguncoach View Post
Hi BrianD - if your hand-eye coordination is good enough, yes you could just focus on the target.

It’s interesting that you brought up music. I’ve found that math and engineering people need to think in terms of science and measurements (and tend to be great long distance rifle shooters!), while musicians and poets are much more inclined to embrace the art of shooting.

One group forces the shot to happen, the other group allows the shot to happen.

Be open to it, listen to your body and how things feel, and observe the results. You may be surprised how fast it happens when you don’t try to force it.

I also agree that right or left handness is a preference/habit. We’re from the same era and I remember the ‘no lefties’ rules as well. I’m right handed, but my Dad was left handed and he taught me how to do everything that way. It came in handy when I severely burned my right hand and had only one usable hand for 6 months.

When you try it, just remember that the bullet jumps to the target because it wants to……just like notes from an instrument. You sound like you’re well on your way.
I’m a southpaw. My Dad (right handed) taught me to shoot a rifle and a shotgun-right handed. I taught myself handgun shooting-left handed😊. I’ve found I can shoot a handgun about the same with either hand (split times right handed tend to be about .1 slower, but accuracy is about the same). With a rifle or shotgun left handed I couldn’t hit a barn at 50 yards😳
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #19  
Old 01-06-2024, 03:44 PM
Brian Parrish's Avatar
Brian Parrish Brian Parrish is online now
Member
Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range  
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Winston Salem
Posts: 300
Likes: 987
Liked 353 Times in 175 Posts
Default Good Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by petepeterson View Post
Why would anyone prefer to be left-handed then? Other than pitchers and hockey players?
Seem to me that you see which hand a small child uses more pretty early on.
It would be a consistent percentage over the years of people that preferred the left?
Not being argumentative, just curious.
I am a guitarist also and sometimes taught beginning guitar class in the Christian School. I always let students choose their preference because it really does not matter. I sometimes ask lefties, "You know my left hand has the hard parts, it has to finger the chords. Wouldn't you want to take advantage of that?" They always looked at me like I had just landed from Mars. You can read about the greats who did exactly that including Duane Allman, Mark Knopfler, Steve Morse, Jimi Hendrix, etc. Ultimate guitar lists the top ten. Guitar World has a list of 30 lefties who play the guitar right handed.

If I consider how incredibly simple it is to pull a trigger, my obvious question is why in the world would it matter which HAND you use? The answer is in how your brain works, not how you use your eyes nor how it feels in your hands. Every combat trainer includes weak hand training. I like what Kyle DeFoor calls it, "my other strong hand."

How do you accomplish what needs to be done?
There was a reason that the schools taught only right-handed writing. It was because of the way ink flowed from a quill or a nib, a dip pen. Even with modern fountain pens, it is much harder for lefties, and they hate, hate, hate having to write with a straight wrist with the hand below the line. (Just use a gel pen or a soft point.) Why use handwriting at all? Well, if you have nothing beautiful to say to the heart, there is no need to write it beautifully for the eye. But a beautiful sentence in a beautiful hand does what the eyes and the voice can do.

A gun is a fighting tool. You must learn to fight first, then learn to fight with either hand. You don't fight with one hand; you fight with one brain.

Kind Regards Shibadog,
BrianD
__________________
696-6906-457-38-3913-CS40-411
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #20  
Old 01-09-2024, 09:00 AM
raljr1 raljr1 is online now
SWCA Member
Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range  
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Northeast FL
Posts: 5,811
Likes: 7,464
Liked 15,234 Times in 3,634 Posts
Default

I an right handed and left eye dominant. I also have esophoria, meaning I am a little bit cross eyed. Makes shooting with both eyes open a little challenging, as I see two pictures.

As to using both hands, when I was a very young machinist apprentice running an engine lathe, I was tending to use my right hand for all cranking. My boss walked up to me one day after seeing that and said, "Son, God gave you two hands, and if you're gonna make a living in this business, you need to learn to use them both.
__________________
Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #21  
Old 01-14-2024, 07:24 PM
F224 F224 is offline
Member
Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range Two revolvers at once on steel range  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Dallas, Iowa, USA
Posts: 280
Likes: 159
Liked 361 Times in 106 Posts
Default

I knew gentleman years ago in Plattsmouth, Nebraska. He was an accomplished pistol shooter and could clean twelve pop cans at 15 yards in under 12 seconds with his 38spl Colt Target & S&W M66's shooting one in each hand.

I never did ask him which eye he aimed with. He could also shoot hand thrown quarters with his Colt all day long and miss only one of about every dozen or so. Former WWII POW and a pilot also.
__________________
Captain Dave Funk
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Blue Steel Revolvers Have Better Triggers Than Stainless Steel? bassoneer S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 15 12-10-2019 12:42 AM
Steel Challenge 22 revolvers PINMAN Smith & Wesson Competitive Shooting 4 03-17-2013 10:49 AM
Stainless steel K frame revolvers Frank46 S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 7 11-23-2012 05:03 PM
Revolvers used for steel challenge events berettamod96 Smith & Wesson Competitive Shooting 20 10-14-2010 12:00 AM
Never much for Stainless steel revolvers,,, BUT... pred S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 16 12-23-2008 07:04 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:30 AM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)