Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?

Status
Not open for further replies.
model3sw

model3sw

SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Platinum User
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
2,763
Reaction score
4,081
Location
South Florida, USA
Is a Letter of Authenticity is really a "Letter of Authenticity" as the title implies ?

To me, this implies the gun described in the letter has been verified as "authentic" when it has NOT been examined nor verified.

What the letter actually describes is: a certain model S&W, bearing as certain serial number, was shipped in a certain configuration (caliber, barrel length, finish, stock, etc.) to a certain person on a certain date. That's it !

A letter from Roy Jinks is surely the "gold standard" among collectors. However, contrary to what the name of the document defines, it is NOT a "Letter of Authenticity" as no such authentication process has taken place to prove the gun (for which the data has been requested) is, in fact, authentic ... or ... that it is even that same, specific, gun.

After reviewing advertised S&W firearms touting "Letter of Authenticity" as if the described gun (in the letter) had been examined and proven "authentic", to an industry / museum / expert, examination.

I suggest the title of the "Letter of Authenticity" be revised to something more logical and reasonable, e.g. Letter of S&W Historical Records or some such.

Let's put this up for a vote to chose a more logical name for this document that we all covet so dearly.

It seems that some sellers, seemingly selling "blue skies" use this "Letter of Authenticity" to imply the gun described in the letter is "authentic" when no such examination to verify such has been performed.

What do you think ? Suggestions ?
 
Last edited:
Register to hide this ad
I think it’s fine the way it’s, to may times we change things for what we think is better and it winds up destroying it. The letter has been fine up till now so why would you want to change it.
If you read the letter and have the gun in your hand and it doesn’t match the way it came from the factory then you can see it’s not Authentic. No?
Ted
 
I certainly don’t see any issue as is. It obviously depends on how much value you place on the letter. They are after all firearms and not some multi million dollar piece of art. As the above poster states, if the letter doesn’t match.....

Really not that much different than buying a used vehicle and finding the window sticker folded in glove compartment. If the sticker indicates a blue car and the one your sitting in is painted pink, it may have been altered.
 
Model3sw,

You along with everyone else who has any intrest in collectable S&Ws knows exactly what the Letter of Authenticity is and what it indicates about any particular gun. It doesn't seem to me that it makes any sense to get all wound up about what S&W calls there historical records letters. Just another "tempest in a teacup" semantics argument.

Best regards,
 
"Letter of Authenticity" seems as good a name as any. I usually order them to find out where the gun originally went and when. However, sometimes the letter confirms how "authentic" the gun I'm looking at is. Sometimes it is impossible to tell if the finish is original, whether the barrel has been cut, sights modified/replaced, or what the original stocks were. A letter can't tell you if the gun was refinished but it can tell you that a nickel gun didn't leave the factory with that finish. Letter of Authenticity works for me.

Jeff
SWCA #1457
 
gmborkovic said:
I thought it was simply called a Factory Letter or Paper from Jinks?
Where would one go to get a true "Letter of Authenticity"? What would
it entail?
Click to expand...

About the closest thing I know to a true "Letter of Authenticity" for any gun, would be a Kopec letter on a Colt Cavalry or Artillery SAA.

Best regards,
 
In a legal forum ... authenticity of a physical object must be accompanied by expert testimony and report of examination defining standards to which examination and tests have been performed and documented authority as expert on a particular item.

Roy, is without a doubt, "the" expert on S&Ws, Roy's qualifications are undisputed, however, in absence of physically examining that S&W object (of which he is expert) ... cannot affirm the item is factually "authentic" unless physically examined by him.

This is not just a protest of the name of just the document, albeit the title of the letter is erroneous.

May just be a play on words to some, may not matter to others, but in a court of law that "Letter of Authenticity" would not stand up after it is determined the item being authenticated was not physically examined (and to what specific standards) to verify authenticity.

Roy's letter verifies that the factory records indicate, a gun of a certain description, type and configuration, bearing a specific serial number, was shipped from the factory on a certain date, to a certain person and place ... but NOT ... that the gun has been examined and proved to be "authentic".

Think of a demilled USAF that had been destroyed and legit USAF numbers placed on another Airweight pre-model 12. The person who requests a letter on that gun, with the genuine USAF numbers, will get a Letter of Authenticity solely because the serial number is listed in the records.

Think of all the collectors that purchased Tom Haas Colt SAAs that came with Colt Letter of Authenticity ?
 
Last edited:
I have a couple of easy and obvious issues to today's rant...

First is that n-o-b-o-d-y calls it a "letter of authenticity", pretty much everyone calls it a Factory Letter and has been calling it as such for as long as I can recall.

Second issue is that even if you found some magical group of extreme authority that had to ability to authenticate a handgun... you simply must realize that unless/until you then MARK it with an indentifier from that entity, the entire exercise is moot.

When a collectible baseball card is authenticated, it is sealed in a display case that has a trackable code and damn difficult to counterfeit identifier on it, typically a hologram of some nature, that ties the authenticating organization to the actual physical item.

So then, with a handgun, would you like it SEALED and thus forever here after untouchable? Or would you rather engrave it? Etch it?

Better answer...
Let's just keep on keepin' on as we did yesterday before this crisis. ;)
 
moralem said:
This is like finding a problem to fit a solution.....for a problem that does not exist........whose going to court anyway.........sorry you asked for an opinion.
Click to expand...

Exactly, just a silly trolling argument for argument's sake. I'm not bitting any more.

Best regards,
 
The OP does have a point. If, and it's a big if.
The letter is portrayed as a " letter of authenticity ".
I have read that already, so it's possible to happen.
Given the OP description and what others have posted about the criteria required to authenticate a particular item.
I would prefer and consider a historical letter from Mr. Jinks as a letter of origin.
It's how it started its existence, nothing more, nothing less.
Does it match that original description, that's up to whoever's looking at the gun.
Just a simpletons .02.
Have a great day.
 
Skwirl said:
The OP does have a point. If, and it's a big if.
The letter is portrayed as a " letter of authenticity ".
I have read that already, so it's possible to happen.
Given the OP description and what others have posted about the criteria required to authenticate a particular item.
I would prefer and consider a historical letter from Mr. Jinks as a letter of origin.
It's how it started its existence, nothing more, nothing less.
Does it match that original description, that's up to whoever's looking at the gun.
Just a simpletons .02.
Have a great day.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

Do we have and lawyers in the house ? (this should be interesting).

This all started because of a VERY suspicious M13 Aircrewman presented to me within the past few months accompanied by a S&W letter, just like most of all of the many I have, only this one had in same type style (as subject line) "Letter of Authenticity" or in the lower note section after signatures where the author would code the letter as to who typed it an code for subject, etc.

Parchment was correct, signature (I "think" it was signed by Don) correct, raised perforated stamp over / near signature. I thought, perhaps, this was a new style letter ... never before recalling those words on any of Roy's letters.

None of my own letters from Roy are "titled" in such a manner, I found that odd but ... ok, but it could be.

It could also be that the letter was "Doctored" to add the words, "Letter of Authenticity" or it could have been printed by accident.

Then this AM pulling a new request form from the S&WHF website I see it listed as "letter of authenticity", I just HAD to ask.

Not a rant, but a matter of incorrect "terminology" that too often finds its way in to the bill of goods an unsavory seller might include in a fevered sales pitch, in the (all too familiar) style of a Coney Island carnival barker.

We've all read and heard some incredible sale pitches but someone adding anything to a S&W letter, including the words "Letter of Authenticity" when it was not there before, would be a new low. Not a surprising low, but a new one, anyway.
 
Last edited:
gmborkovic said:
I just pulled out my latest correspondence from Mr.Jinks, and do not see
"Letter of Authenticity" any place on the paper. It is dated May, 24,
for a '96 sent to Jersey City PD. Thanks Mr. Jinks.
Click to expand...

I never said Mr Jinks.
You need to reread my 2nd and 3rd sentence.
 
model3sw said:
Exactly.

Do we have and lawyers in the house ? (this should be interesting).

This all started because of a VERY suspicious M13 Aircrewman presented to me within the past few months accompanied by a S&W letter, just like most of all of the many I have, only this one had in same type style (as subject line) "Letter of Authenticity" or in the lower note section after signatures where the author would code the letter as to who typed it an code for subject, etc.

Parchment was correct, signature (I "think" it was signed by Don) correct, raised perforated stamp over / near signature. I thought, perhaps, this was a new style letter ... never before recalling those words on any of Roy's letters.

None of my own letters from Roy are "titled" in such a manner, I found that odd but ... ok, but it could be.

It could also be that the letter was "Doctored" to add the words, "Letter of Authenticity" or it could have been printed by accident.

Then this AM pulling a new request form from the S&WHF website I see it listed as "letter of authenticity", I just HAD to ask.

Not a rant, but a matter of incorrect "terminology" that too often finds its way in to the bill of goods an unsavory seller might include in a fevered sales pitch, in the that (all too familiar) Coney Island carnival barker style.

We've all read and heard some incredible sale pitches but adding to a S&W letter the words "Letter of Authenticity" would be a new low. Not a surprising low, but a new one, anyway.
Click to expand...


This is why I said I consider them a " letter of origin ".

The authenticity comes from owners or most likely sellers.
I also think the letters from Mr. Jinks are honest and truthful to the best of his ability.
But he didnt evaluate the gun, someone else did that most likely has a dog in the show.
 
Sevens said:
I have a couple of easy and obvious issues to today's rant...

First is that n-o-b-o-d-y calls it a "letter of authenticity", pretty much everyone calls it a Factory Letter and has been calling it as such for as long as I can recall.

Second issue is that even if you found some magical group of extreme authority that had to ability to authenticate a handgun... you simply must realize that unless/until you then MARK it with an indentifier from that entity, the entire exercise is moot.

When a collectible baseball card is authenticated, it is sealed in a display case that has a trackable code and damn difficult to counterfeit identifier on it, typically a hologram of some nature, that ties the authenticating organization to the actual physical item.

So then, with a handgun, would you like it SEALED and thus forever here after untouchable? Or would you rather engrave it? Etch it?

Better answer...
Let's just keep on keepin' on as we did yesterday before this crisis. ;)
Click to expand...

If "n-o-b-o-d-y" includes the S&W Historical Foundatiom, you are sadly incorrect.

Here it is ... on the S&WHF website ... to request a "Letter of Authenticity"
Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation - Letter Process - Insuring that the rich history of Smith & Wesson will continue for generations to come

And the form is titled likewise: http://www.swhistoricalfoundation.com/Letter_request_form.pdf
 
Last edited:
I think I have a “Letter of Authenticity”. Let me take a look. Yep, says “Letter of Authenticity”. Mine was mailed from a Nigerian prince so I know it has to be good.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

DARE
S&W Offers Historic Research Service
Replies
1
Views
416
lestert357
lestert357
DARE
SWHF Praise
Replies
5
Views
402
Gun Relics
Gun Relics
jack007
Mistake in Jinks letter...?
Replies
3
Views
1K
Model19man
M
K
19-2 3" Letter of Authenticity Arrived
Replies
19
Views
3K
wbraswell
wbraswell
Gun Relics
A Darn Good Letter, M & P Target 1939
2
Replies
32
Views
1K
daddio202
daddio202

Latest posts

Back
Top