I'm under the impression invoices are routinely examined as part of the research performed for SWHF letters---today, sometimes even copied and sent along with the letters. Yes? It occurs to me to also ask if invoices were routinely examined as part of the research performed for factory letters back in the day----2004 to be exact? I think they were, simply because letters from that era (and before and after) oft times noted the price charged for individual guns. Of course, that sort of information could have just as easily been obtained from (historical) price lists.

Same church-different pew, if the answer to my first question is No, not routinely, but on occasion (or some such), under what circumstances might invoices have been examined as part of such research?

Many Thanks !

Ralph Tremaine

I don't believe the original invoices were ever researched separately as part of the "factory letter" process. The price indicated in the letters was simply part of the information which was entered into the shipping log book along with model and other features at the time of shipping. The shipping log is indexed by serial number, where the invoices would be indexed alphabetically by entity the gun/guns were shipped to.

__________________
Gunsmithing since 1961

Okay, I happen to have copies of two pages from the shipping log------one given to me by the good Dr. Jinks to at least try to explain (or at least document) how/why an 8" .32 caliber 1st Model Single Shot lettered as a 10" .22. (The log shows the gun as a 10" .22.)

Left to solve the mystery on my own, I decided that unfortunate blunder came to pass when the nice little old lady/gentleman (take your pick) who puts guns in boxes grabbed the wrong box, and sent it on its way to the shipping vault. It arrived at the distributor in due course, where their receiving clerk opened the box, took one look, and called out, "Hey Boss, they sent us the wrong gun---we ordered a 10" .22 Single Shot, and they sent us an 8" .32!" (My last chance for salvation!!) The Boss replied, "That's okay, we can sell it---put it on the shelf." I was doomed right then and there.

The other page (which inexplicably eludes me at the moment) I at least think dealt with two 3rd Model Single Shots (#'s 4807--a 6" and 4826--an 8" which came to live here about 25 years apart). I had what proved to be the very poor judgement to suppose they might have been made on the same day---and even worse judgement to pose the question to Himself. He responded with a letter laying out, chapter and verse, when each of two pistols were completed, the number of pistols in the respective production runs, and the dates they were "entered in to the shipping vault"---a rather strange choice of words, that----"entered in to".

As luck would have it, they were not made/completed on the same day---more like six weeks apart, May 9, 1911 for 4807, and June 21, 1911 for 4826. Then I got what I took to be a mild scolding with this parting shot: "This certainly establishes that they were not produced in the same production lot of Perfected Single Shot Pistols." Yes, Sir! It certainly does.

At any rate, and for what it's worth, the price indicated in the letters appears nowhere in either page from the shipping log book---which is, as you say "indexed by serial number"---100 per page.

And I just remembered what the other page dealt with--and it wasn't these two single shots. It dealt with the 22/40 given to Philip B. Sharpe----#682435---and I found that page right where it was supposed to be! This is another one of those deals where I asked a pesky question. #682420 shows as the first 22/40 in N&J (As an aside, it was shipped 3/14/40.) I supposed a freebie such as the Sharpe gun might have been shipped even earlier---and again pestered The Man with another question. Now I already knew when the Sharpe gun was shipped from the letter (3/21/40), but I didn't know when 682420 went out the door. And I didn't get scolded this time.

As another aside, I supposed there would be reams and volumes of internal paperwork associated with a freebie such as the Sharpe gun, and fired off a request to SWHF----BIG DISAPPOINTMENT!! There was exactly one piece of paper---the invoice---charging off the cost of the gun ("with grip adapter attached") to the Advertising Account----$14.55. I figured that represented the cost to make the gun and grip adapter, plus maybe 35 to 50 cents to ship it to Maine. So now we know S&W was a rather loosely run organization where you could give merchandise away without any long drawn out procedures securing permission to do so---depending. And having brought Sharpe to mind, I wonder what sort of paperwork was required to give him Registered Magnum #2. Then again, it cost only $17 to make a Registered Magnum; so no big deal!

So---I still don't know where the prices shown in the various letters come from----maybe someday.

Ralph Tremaine

Oh---and another thing: The "and other features" you mentioned as being in the shipping log aren't there either. The log has two sections of three columns each. The first ("No. of Pistol") contains the serial number. The second ("No. of case" shows the case #, the model of the gun, and the date). The third (Remarks)----tells to whom it was shipped---and where (town and state---or just town in some cases (like NY).

All that aside, I thank you for your response.

I can speak for post war (WW II) guns from personal experience. Research always involves looking at the original invoice (sometimes a memo account or other type of document) to verify the model and features (barrel length, finish, etc.) of the gun being lettered. Invoices in this period always list the price and shipping information. Serial number lists appeared in the late 1950s, with serial numbers being hit and miss prior to then.

Pre-war (again WW II) usually listed very little information with Registered Magnums being the exception where lots of information is often found. For example, a .38/44 Outdoorsman revolver is usually listed on an invoice as a .38/44 Target, 6 1/2, B and nothing else.

The shipping log lists the serial number and when and where that serial number was shipped, nothing else.

Bill

The above dissertation ignores the Elephant in the Room., which are the Service Dep't invoices for work done when guns are returned to S&W. Those invoices have the names of who returned the gun & why, of course, and show what repairs & replacement were done , reflecting why the return date date is stamped on the grip frame & sometimes a "Star" symbol on the butt. I hope the SWHF sees its way clear to start digitizing those Service Dep't records and include that material with SWHF letters. ! Ed .